Protests in Europe

Mostly over the economy. Lets discuss. Some links to get us started:

http://countingpips.com/fx/2011/05/24/the-youth-revolution-spreads-to-europe/

http://www.npr.org/2011/05/26/136683688/youth-protests-sweep-spain-as-unemployment-soars

http://www.democracynow.org/seo/2011/5/26/toma_la_plaza_frustration_with_unemployment

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/26/italy-5-star-movement

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/first-g8-protests-halted-in-paris-16004621.html

So- what do you think? Is this the start of something new and important, or just a small blip in the passing of events?

Seems to be about Spain's economic situation, also (durr, you said that already). Greece riots are frequent, but Spain? I'm not sure what to make of that.

edited 26th May '11 2:17:25 PM by pvtnum11

From the sounds of it, people are tired of being given handouts instead of jobs. I know for one thing the youth unemployment rate across the entire first world is absolutely atrocious. (In the US for example it's over 50% with people age 18-25)

Not that I doubt that figure, Tom, but can you provide a source?

48.9% total employed rate. Including discouraged workers/those out of the labor force by their standards we have a 51.1% unemployment rate among youths alone.

And this is LAST YEAR'S data! This year's cannot possibly be better.

Likewise in Spain (so we're on-topic), it's 40%.

edited 26th May '11 4:18:35 PM by MajorTom

Unemployment rate is not found by subtracting the employment rate from 100%. That age group is prime college years, and someone in college shouldn't be counted as "unemployed" in this sense.

Now, granted, some people are enrolled in college only because they can't get a job, but that's not the majority, I think.

edited 26th May '11 4:25:06 PM by Morven

Uh, no.

You're making an error in assuming that ALL of the remaining population would be looking for work. At that age range, such is not necessarily the case.

If you read further down on the page, they have an actual unemployment number.

Ack! Ninja'd!

But yeah, the page has real data. And really, unemployed youth shouldn't be surprising, inexperience and well, lack of maturity, contributes to uncertain employment.

If you want to start a labor draft, let me know, otherwise...I wouldn't be concerned.

edited 26th May '11 4:27:50 PM by blueharp

^^ Unemployment rate in the BLS only counts those actively seeking work. Those without a job and otherwise not counted or not looking are not tallied into the rate. It's why when you break down the numbers of discouraged workers, actively unemployed and the underemployed the unemployment rate doesn't add up.

That's for the US. In many European countries like where these protests are emerging, simply not having a job (looking for work or not) nets you unemployed status.

So now everyone in Schooling over the age of 16 is Unenmployed?

However, youth unemployment is a big problem, in the US and Europe and many other places. It appears to be a whole lot harder for a young person to get even a crappy, dead-end job, let alone anything with prospects.

I think there's truth in the idea that this is because so many more experienced workers have been laid off and can't get an equivalent job, so they've had to apply to lower-status positions and in turn displaced those who previously would have been the labor pool for them, and so on all the way down, until young people are displaced and have nowhere else to turn.

^^ You tell me, does it work that way in your system?

edited 26th May '11 4:33:26 PM by MajorTom

Depends how you mean "unemployed" you see over here we have "full time education" as a thing, so no there not unemployed, they are learnding!

Wait, was Spain one of the countries that normally have riots? I know England has one every week or so and on every game day, but I don't know that much about Spain.

^ Compared to France and Greece, Spain is not known for extensive rioting.

What Morven said.

Well, what do we want to do about it then?

Start up a labor draft and put people to work doing things? (exactly what things is an open question...). Reduce the maximum hours worked to Jetsons hours so people end up pushing buttons for 3 hours a week?

Britain has marches often and "riots" are usually restricted to about 80 douchebags with too much time on their hands.

Our infrastructure in many areas is aging. Public works projects may be the ticket to do two things: Put people to work, and replace aging infrastructure. Yes, there's some drawbacks to that, but i think the benefits outweigh those drawbacks.

I'd imagine that Europe could benefit from public work projects as well.

Not sure how viable a plan that is, construction requires a certain skillset which may not be widely available.

Yeah, I realize that there's hurdles with that idea. You'll need some skilled labor, you'll need to waste time training up the unskilled workers on certain things, and you first have to plan out what sort of stuff you even want or need to do.

There are various courses avaliable for training, its just that most of them are for School leavers and as companies can pick and choose (and the current government has slashed public sector spending because "the private sector will do that") whom to employ... well it has created a lot of people (myself included) who have no job and are back living with parents and doing voluntary work.

So, what do we eventually run into if the private sector won't do it, and the Gov't has left it up to the private sector?

Stuff not getting done, that's what.

Indeed, its a problem you see a lot of and its a dangerous game for Corporations to play for several reasons. The first is the fact that their physical assests can be siezed, the second of which is when governments reach the tipping point between "Jobs lost and angry voters created" and "Support from large corporations".

edited 26th May '11 5:06:16 PM by JosefBugman

Ardiente and I have been having a debate via PM over this, and I have been pointing out that France and the US simply have different priorities when it comes to managing their respective economies. The US choses to emphasize providing a larger number and a more diverse array of employment opportunities at the expense of employment stability. France chooses to maximize employment stability at the expense of under-employing certain demographic groups (esp. the young) and less productive employees on average. This leads to characteristic problems- the French have to deal with relatively frequent protests against unemployment because labor policy is carefully controlled by the central government, therefore the unemployed have someone they can blame for their problems. In the US we have to deal with a high crime rate when the unemployment rates go up, as individuals seek to provide for themselves in the absence of readily available employment opportunities (people who are morally opposed to becoming criminals occassionally put themselves deeply in debt instead).

Unemployment is symptom not cause.

The problem is euro. Its too expensive for Spain, Greece, Italy economy and causing their product become too expensive to be exported. If southern Europe not in Euro, they can devaluate their currency, and become exporter, generate a lot of job.

The solution is unlikely :

• Spain, Portugal, italy and Greece quit Euro
• Euro central Bank start reducing / devalue Euro
• young worker start migrate en-masse to North Europe

each solution have significant side effect