US Supreme Court upholds Arizona law re:knowingly hiring illegals

Who'd lobby, though? The businesses who want to employ illegals? That'd fly really well.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

"Right to work" groups, I'd imagine.

(IE, anti-union/workers rights)

Yes, because not being forced to hand over your money to a third party in order to work is "anti worker's rights"...

edited 27th May '11 8:23:20 AM by deuxhero

Er, what? I'm not getting what you're getting at there.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

"Right to work" means a law that allows you to take a job without being forced to become a memeber of a union. As a member of a union, you must pay union dues.

@Deux: and yet its also usually the buzzword used every time They invent some fancy new way to get rid of collective bargaining or strip rights from a worker.

@Fighteer: I'd imagine the most likely people to campaign for allowing businesses to work illegals for horrible payscales would be the same lobbies who purport to be all about giving americans "the right to work". After all, what theyre really after is stripping out people's rights to not be dicked over by employers via "at will" employment or stripping out labor laws.

edited 27th May '11 8:43:50 AM by Midgetsnowman

Aren't "right to work" people also usually opposed to hiring illegals?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

^ Yes.

I'd imagine that tune would change if illegals were made completely unhirable, but then, I'm horrifically cynical.

Finally, someone tried to enforce immigration laws in the one way that actually makes sense/could have an effect.

Say whatever else you like about it, punishing the employers hiring illegal immigrants is pretty much the only way to enforce our current immigration laws. Not that that doesn't have its own set of problems, but it's a hell of a lot more realistic and enforceable than any current ideas of deportations and walls.

Now if you wanted to change those immigration laws, that would probably be a good idea as well.

edited 27th May '11 10:28:46 AM by deathjavu

Look, you can't make me speak in a logical, coherent, intelligent bananna.

I've heard that the Georgia agriculture industry is currently whining about a similar law. Apparently, they can't find enough workers anymore for some strange reason.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play

We have 9% "official" unemployment. Seems there are a few people out of work who might want those jobs if they paid a bit better. But one reason why immigrant labor is "necessary" for these industries is that all of us red-blooded Americans are too proud to pick fruit.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

^ I'm an American and I ain't too proud to pick fruit.

edited 27th May '11 11:59:39 AM by MajorTom

@Fighteer: These jobs don't exactly advertise to gringos.

Yeah I would pick fruit for cash. except cherries. Fuck cherries.

Joke aside friut picking are not the important jobs they take. Its things like water bottle delivery man, construction yard workers, and gardening. These jobs all pay well(minus the fact you pretty much age super quick) but they come in with fake documents and borrowed ss numbers and take up slots. Then they build up a culture of spanish speaking that alienates legal workers who can not speak spanish.

edited 27th May '11 12:10:45 PM by TheDeadMansLife

Please.

I don't see a problem with picking fruit, or similar jobs. In fact, on the way to my psychiatrist's office today, I passed some guys working on a lawn and momentarily considered asking one of them how he got the job. But of course it occurred to me that it'd be too awkward being the only worker not fluent in Spanish.

There's a lot of problems with it. If you didn't pay me enough money, why would I do any job? And as the job gets more and more miserable, the more pay I'd need.

Especially since you'd be competing with jobs that paid better with less strain.

edited 27th May '11 1:18:58 PM by blueharp

Yes, I've read about that problem. Also, if they do bother to advertise, no gringos come to do them. So we have a serious problem of a self-maintaining subculture that excludes potentially able workers on the basis of language and other things. Seems worthwile to break up.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

America's had an economy based on immigrant workers from the beginning. It's just become much, much harder to be a legal immigrant, but the demand has stayed the same.

A brighter future for a darker age.

@Tom: But for most people, its not an option. If I'm being paid minimum wage which wont even cover my gas bills from in town out to my work site, let alone my house payment and feeding my kids, and i get stripped of my unemployment benefits to boot, why on earth would I willingly take such a job?

Because it's better than sitting on your arse collecting "benefits". In this economy, the longer you are on them, the less likely you will be hired by anyone.

It's a sad reality.

It's definitely the case that being employed — in any job at all — makes it easier to get a better job.

A brighter future for a darker age.

Not if it keeps you from looking for any other jobs.

^ There's no such thing. Otherwise that runs afoul of a little thing called the 13th Amendment.

Obviously having one job gives you less time to apply to others. However, being long-term unemployed is worse; furthermore, every job has to give you break and lunch time (assuming the shift is long enough, of course). That's time to read job ads and make phone calls. It makes it harder, but it doesn't make it impossible.

A brighter future for a darker age.