Does a such thing as a Mongoloid, Caucasoid, or Negroid skull exist?

Most people who say that are trolls. Besides "you are a weeaboo" isn't very closely related to "you are a racist".

In the real world, I would be very surprised if more people thought "I am interested in learning Japanese" was racist than thought the phrase "Mongoloid skulls" was racist.

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Yeah, in the real world, people are definitely going to react with more hostility to use of the terms Mongoloid, Caucasoid, and Negroid. Just look at the reactions in this thread.

Hodor

Then I guess most of the internet is trolls, since yours, and the users here, are admittedly some of the very first and few I've heard of this variety.

And sadly, I've been thousands of places on the internet. Christ, that's my problem internet addiction. I've spent so much time on the internet I start to feel that's how people are, deep down, when they're not putting on a face for people in real life, they're ranting about the kid who checked out a Korean studies book at their local library.:/

For those very reasons, I get a little nervous when checking out things at the library that are kinda Asian. I feel a little bit inside like everyone is looking at me and thinking I'm disgusting.

Yeah... sorry but... I don't buy it. At all.

edited 18th May '11 7:49:02 PM by Ukonkivi

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Trolls trolling trolls.

Why don't you buy it? Going by my own experiences, the idea that people find an interest in Japan more offensive than the word "Negroid" sounds frankly utterly absurd. It's like you're talking about some bizarre alien universe where up is down and nothing makes sense.

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Likewise.

My experiences tell me quite differently.

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That's because you hang out on Stormfront. Trust me on this. The term "Negroid skull" is usually considered racist.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

No, I've rarely gone there. And when I have it's usually to cheer up my mood when all else fails.

I spend too much time on the internet in general. It's distorted my image of humans, apparently.

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Cheer up your mood in what sense? Because they like European culture as much as you do?

Edit- Also, just to make sure I'm understanding this. It kind of sounds like you want their to be some close racial connection between Japanese and Northern Europeans because those are your two favorite cultures.

That really does have racist undertones and goes beyond things like liking anime, wanting to learn Japanese, etc.

edited 18th May '11 8:07:02 PM by Jordan

Hodor

Well, that. And that fact that no matter how how bad of "trolling" I've received from most of the internet and hatred for what I like. I can go to a site like that and say "wow, they're the racist white nationalists of infamy... but they're... actually.. n-not so bad."

And then I have some semblance of feeling it's okay to be myself restored into my system. They've become a kind of backbone for me to rest upon when I feel bad about being a weeaboo. And hence the years of doing that sort of thing that led to me making the "I think I'm becoming a fascist weirdo" topic. My mind has started conflating the reasoning of me being a weeaboo and fascism/racism. When I feel like "being a WN, liking Japan, same thing", I'm actually a little happy. When I can't and it's broken apart, I start to feel like the latter is inferior and I become lost. Because this is the mental defence mechanism I developed.

Is it really that different? Enjoying the anime aesthetic means enjoying mukokuseki. Which is a lack of contrast between Europeans and Asians, typically.

And why is it racist, specifically, if Northern Europeans and Northern Asians have a lot in common, or one's favourite cultures have a lot in common. Because they're supposed to be separate, and distinct? I guess I am racist for not liking this contrast, and it's back to square one then. If I let go, I let go of what I love. Racism is apparently central to my happiness.

edited 18th May '11 8:17:51 PM by Ukonkivi

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Mukokuseki has nothing to do with genetics whatsoever.

Mukokuseki is harmless. Trying to justify liking a culture by positing a particularly close genetic link between that culture and your own, less so.

No, because it implies that genetic differences and similarities between people of different nationalities are sufficiently great to have a significant effect upon culture, which is a mistaken belief that leads to some incredibly offensive and dangerous implications if acted upon.

edited 18th May '11 8:19:40 PM by BobbyG

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Well, it's better than not being justified in learning Japanese at all.

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It's racist because your thought process is Japanese and Northern Europeans are cool, so they have to have a close racial link, and the counterpoint to this would seem to be that since other races are "less cool", it wouldn't be right in some way for them to have a closer racial link.

Hodor

^^ No it isn't, and see my edit.

Throughout this topic, and just about every thread I've argued this with you, my main point has been that liking Japanese shouldn't need a racial justification. It's enough to say that you like the sound, or the syntax, or the writing style, or the vocabulary, or the relationship it has with the Japanese culture.

edited 18th May '11 8:22:18 PM by BobbyG

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No, I shouldn't need this "racist" justification. But I do because my mind has been broken down about it for several years.

It's not as if I'm trying to whole up North Asia and Northern Europe and say "to hell with everyone else". I just want an excuse. It feels like the rest of the world doesn't want me liking North Asian cultures along with North European cultures, even though they're both northern. And it just makes me want to find any tool I can to huggle them up like a little girl with a teddy bear.

Tell me, is there something wrong with the fact North Asia and Northern Europe share some of the same population genes? Because no matter what agenda is out there, that is a scientific fact. Trying to downplay that won't make it go away. Haplogroup N on the Y-DNA is very real. You can say that the excuse is racist and unnecessary, but the fact is not. And it's not any less racist that Europe and Asia be disconnected rather than connected.

About that "strong reaction" y'all have been recently talking about, in this thread, to these words. The only people I've seen doing that is people like you, Bobby G, most everyone else has just been talking about that subject normally or the derail. I haven't seen anyone else imply much stigma on the terms, other than you. Not to discredit anything you've said, just my observation of the general flow of the thread.

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I think it's not so much the idea that will come off as racist; If you told someone about them without using those terms people would shrug and say "Yeah, probably. So what?".

It's just that the words 'negroid' and 'mongoloid' have a shifty, pseudo-sciencey flavour to them.

Be not afraid...

Stop making up excuses to let your mind be submitted to the racist bullshit on the internet and either block it out or step away from it altogether.

edited 18th May '11 8:38:19 PM by annebeeche

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.

Patently bullshit, no-one halfway rational will criticise you for cultural preference, stop hanging around with racists.

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Nothing at all. But it's still racist to think that's a necessary excuse.

What do you mean by "people like me"? What sort of people am I like?

I wasn't actually offended by your use of the words, though I'll admit I find your insistence upon them slightly strange.

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Ironically, that psuedo-science-y flavour doesn't seem to hate Asia as much. And at least when people use those terms they span over all locations, and lead people to saying things like "this person is all European, born and bred, but has a Mongoloid skull", instead of "WTF ASIANS AREN'T SUPPOSED TO LOOK THAT WAY!!!!!!!11!". At least with the former it's kind of like "umm, okay", instead of "IT'S SO FREAKY AND DISGUSTING THAT I CAN'T TELL WHETHER MAGIBON IS AMERICAN OR ASIAN". The term Asian has been abused much worse in my experience than Mongoloid, and believe me, I've googled that term a LOT. Which makes it strange that a lot of people don't seem to think that.

Asia, the metaphorical teddy bear I think everybody is trying to snatch up from my hands and ground me from forever.

It was just me not wanting to make the absolute claim you were the only person in the thread who did this. As I couldn't remember quite well enough to make the claim without adding room for one or two possible more people.

Admittedly, I don't insist upon the words. But they do make me curious. I would want some clarity about where race is and where it isn't, because I'm tired of the confusion. As it stands, I don't even fully know what I agree and disagree with. Though I'll admit, I have had admittedly worse memories of the term Asian than Mongoloid.

edited 18th May '11 8:55:54 PM by Ukonkivi

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I don't hate Asia, I don't have the slightest problem with you liking Japan, Japanese, Mukokuseki or the Tales series, and I am certainly not trying to take your interest in Asia away from you. I think you're being rather childish about this.

I repeat my question, what "people" am I like? You said "people like Bobby". Who am I like?

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Edit- Know I had that posted for several minutes but guess I should use cautious editing judgment.

Basically Ukon, there are tons of Japanophiles on the internet, but you are coming across as way more extreme than any I've encountered.

I don't know if there is a closer racial connection of Japanese to Northern Europeans, it's presence or absence has nothing to do with cultural similarities or the relative benefits of those groups getting along well.

edited 18th May '11 9:03:25 PM by Jordan

Hodor

I dunno, everyone you agree with? Err, I mean, not you, but your opinion being shared... oh God my head.

I was just saying you were a part of one or two. It doesn't mean anything more than I've tried to explain. I couldn't think of a better way to put it at the time. Don't explain me to explain it further because there's nothing more to it. This is making my head hurt.

If there are other people in the thread also acting like the term is offensive, they are acting as you, about the subject, not necessarily you as a person. I think I got that out okay this time. Sigh of relief.

edited 18th May '11 8:51:41 PM by Ukonkivi

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OK. I'm sorry if I came across as pushy there, but you did refer to people like me in a seemingly critical sense, and I wanted an explanation.

Probably, I think, because hardly anyone uses the latter nowadays. For a very long time, "Mongoloid" was a medical term denoting somebody with Down's syndrome, before it fell out of fashion due to its racial connotations. So as you can imagine, it has picked up some very insulting connotations (much like how other words referring to mental disabilities are used as insults). As for "Negroid", it's obviously reminiscent of "negro", which has long been regarded as a slur by most of the English-speaking world. On top of that, all three words are closely associated with the branch of pseudoscience mentioned earlier in the thread which has been used, during the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, to justify all manner of horrendous atrocities.

In response to Jordan's post, I think "crazy racist" is too strong, and too harsh. I think you're insecure, Ukonkivi, and I hope you'll forgive me for saying so; I think you worry too much, and I think you have a rather unhealthy obsession with the issue of race.

And yes, I enjoy some anime, and in fact I would quite like to visit Japan at some point in the future. And yes, mentioning this in the past has gotten me called a weeaboo. I laughed it off.

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Yeah, that probably was going too far. Removed that. But weaboos are typically people who think their bento box is kawaii. I really find the racially element that Ukon's expressing troubling and atypical.

Hodor

This is going to be a little bit off and random. But the first thing I noticed about your post was the thing about Negro being a racial slur.

That's really odd, considering Negro is just a word for black in a language other than English. Or rather, it's the more heavily Latin way of saying black. Such as Spanish. Which definitely makes it a bad way to consider someone's face, though. I mean, black is a colour, not the shape of someone's face. If there was a real difference in the way most Africans had their face shaped, wouldn't it be better to come up with a different name that was more descriptive?

And Mongolians are a people who are actually pretty Western culturally, at least by way of being very Turkish-like. Turkey is and has practically always been a Western country in some sense.

• shrug*

So... I shouldn't have a bento box and think it is cute, I take it. Bento boxes are kind of cute... though...

I got called a crazy racist? Ah, I suppose... This is a good look into the mind of how people become like a Nazi or White Nationalist or other type of person, then? If I do it because I'm afraid or something, it doesn't really make it any less so. I guess I am just like a Nazi like I kind of wondered, even though I didn't really realize it. Perhaps people like me do this because we're scared and in pain?

edited 18th May '11 9:13:41 PM by Ukonkivi

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