British Politics Thread

Wow, that's bad. Real bad. I mean, at least rights of expats are probably secured, right?

What the the implications of this vis a vis the Good Friday Agreement?

Strange that outlets like the BBC are playing this up as a good or at least decent result. Might just be relief that they got something done before the deadline hit.

edited 8th Dec '17 10:49:05 AM by Rationalinsanity

What are the elements? Because that’s what matters, if it’s free movement and single market access than (assuming this fallback gets triggered, which it will) doesn’t that basically mean the UK stays in the EEA? All that changes is the UK loosing its ME Ps.

Yep - we stay in alignment with Northern Ireland, who stay in alignment with the EU, except when NI wants special-snowflake exemptions. It’s literally the status quo but worse and with the balance of power shifted from London to Belfast.

They were warned the cost of a minority government wouldn't be worth it.

Well, we can hope Dublin and Belfast deal with the Great English Famine better than London did with the potatoes. Because shadenfreude is beneath both of them (and Russia), right?

edited 8th Dec '17 11:16:17 AM by Euodiachloris

I’m not sure if this could have been avoided even with a strong majority, it was always going to come down to: A hard border (causing a revolt amongest the republicans), an Irish Sea border (causing a revolt amongst the unionists) or no border (causing a revolt amongst the Brexiters).

In the end while the Brexiters might be the most recent group to assassinate an MP they simply aren’t as feared as either the terrorist republicans or the terrorist unionists.

As the border goes goes all the market rules, freedom of movement and it seems even regulation.

Oh and the best bit, British citizens loose ECJ access but EU ones in the UK don’t, we’ve literally been made second class citizens in our own country in the name of sovereignty.

This is hilarious.

I’m not seeing the economic damage you’re seeing, we have to stick by all EU rules and regulations under this, which should mean minimal economic impact. There’s no need for companies to flee London because they’ll be trading under the same rules there as in the rest of the EU.

edited 8th Dec '17 11:21:03 AM by Silasw

Thing is, Northern Ireland will have to stick to EU rules on employment, etc for people working there.

Nothing says Westminster will keep those rules for the rest of the UK. For export, sure: rules and regs. But, everything else?

Do worker protections even apply to UK only citizens in Northern Ireland, my read is that anyone with EU citizenship gets EU (worker) protections, but people without EU citizenship get nothing?

So yeah worker protections are gone for me at least, but that was always going to happen.

As... what was it, Callaghan made clear? Minority governments don't work, because you're so reliant on the minor parties that they can demand almost anything they want.

So if EU citizens get ECJ protected employment rights whilst in the UK, doesn't that mean that while it is possible for the UK to weaken those rights for the sake of 'competitive advantage' it would be impossible to make it work?

I assume that it would not be possible to discriminate between EU workers and UK workers. So even if you lower the standards for your UK staff, you still have to build in an exception for your EU staff. When you start to factor in the administration costs of such an arrangement, that competitive edge starts to diminish.

EDIT: Wonder what would happen if that idea that a UK citizen born pre Brexit departure could claim EU citizenship got traction. Would be hilarious if being an EU citizen got you so many perks that Brexit gets reversed by stealth.

"Yes, Britain left the EU but it's population snuck back in the back door"

edited 8th Dec '17 11:52:53 AM by singularityshot

Register EU staff as being paid by NI-based departments/branches. UK citizens in Northern Ireland get EU protections, because detangling them all would be a nightmare.

Good luck, everybody else. Devolution, you know...

edited 8th Dec '17 11:54:04 AM by Euodiachloris

I think my best bet for worker protections at this point is the London Assemby stepping up and putting some stuff in place.

Honestly I think that some companies will try and discriminate between EU-Citizen employees and non-EU ones, for others I expect them to apply the (lower) British standard and see how long they can get away with it before an EU citizen takes them to court.

I am thinking of the long term consequences. I mean, if I understand that correctly, North-Irish citizens need (and can) apply for an Irish passport to have the same rights within the EU the people across the border have, right? If that is the case, how long will it take until the majority of the North-Irish population has Irish citizenship?

It’s not exactly that, being a resident in Northern Ireland doesn’t entitle you to Irish citizenship, being born on the island of Ireland does.

So a resident of Northern Ireland born elsewhere still can’t get an Irish passport, I can’t move to Northern Ireland from London, establish residency, get an Irish passport then move back.

However yes, anyone born in Northern Ireland is entitled to Irish citizenship and most of them are likely to claim it, but that’s been the way it is since the referendum happened, they ran out of application forms for a while I believe.

If any of your parents or grandparents are/were Irish citizens, you are eligible for Irish citizenship. If you were born anywhere on the island of Ireland before 2005, you automatically have Irish citizenship. The first point applies no matter where you live. Turns out that Ireland has one of the most generous citizenship deals in the world. I’m going to apply at some point, since my grandfather was born in Dublin and my UK passport is going to get a lot more useless soon.

There are people complaining about how easy it is for people in NI to get EU citizenship, but it’s not actually a special deal. It’s just dual citizenship that a huge chunk of the people in the UK are eligible for and it only came about as an option because of the deals the Republic of Ireland made with the UK and the extreme generousness of the Irish approach.

Max Clifford has died of cardiac arrest after being transferred from prison to hospital, leaving a lot of questions floating in the air.

50 years of sleaze and spin have ended on a strange note, one resembling a cancelled show finishing with a suspenseful "To Be Continued" hook. Dunno if he would appreciate that. I suspect not.

edited 10th Dec '17 8:43:25 AM by Euodiachloris

Yeah, the "parent or grandparent are Irish citizens" thing is quite a big one.

edited 10th Dec '17 8:51:46 AM by RainehDaze

I was actually just thinking of the people in Northern Ireland, not the whole of the UK. How long until it this switches from "some people in Northern Ireland have also EU citizenship" to "yeah, there are those EU citizens in Northern Ireland who also happen to have rights in the UK".

When national borders get redrawn.

edited 7th Apr '18 9:40:30 AM by Wyldchyld

Apparently, there's a story circulating in The Canary, The Skwawkbox and Vox Political that Corbyn received an international peace prize at the UN conference he attended. The mainstream press has mentioned he gave a speech, but hasn't said anything about an award, so I've dug around to see if it's true or false.

The award is the Séan MacBride Peace Prize, which is issued by the International Peace Bureau. There are three recipients this year: Jeremy Corbyn, Noam Chomsky, and the All Okinawa Council Against Henoko New Base.

edited 15th Dec '17 11:34:47 AM by Wyldchyld

But why, though?

Oh, CND and Stop the War.

Not sure that really deserves a prize as neither have really worked.

edited 10th Dec '17 3:17:21 PM by RainehDaze

From the IPB website:

Man it’s the Obama peace prize all over again.

And yeah the CND and Stop the War aren’t exactly causes I’d say deserve him earning an award over, leaving foreigners to die to painfully isn’t actually promoting peace.

What the hell happened to International solidarity?

Anyone who'd give a prize to that hack Noam Chomsky is clearly not a good judge of character.