The fact that some people who like porn are fucked up is irrelevant, since most people who like porn are not. It's basically Hitler Ate Sugar applied to porn.
edited 11th Sep '11 10:28:31 PM by tropetown
@tropetown: Did I say that ALL guys who watch porn are like this, or that I think porn is bad?
I don't know. I was replying to the thread, not you.
@tropetown: Sorry, I'm still getting used to the forum and the posting/reply-to conventions.
Street Writing Man
@OP: Pornography crafted to appeal to a demographic is going to cater to the fantasies of that demographic...and the objectification of said demographic's preferred ideal is somewhat unavoidable. The vast majority of visual pornography (pictures, movies, etc.) is crafted to appeal to men. So, women get objectified. It's the nature of the beast.
The same is true in romance novels (which are largely aimed at women). The male characters are treated as fantasies (and objects) in the text, because that's what they're there for. Again, hard to avoid.
As long as people treat porn as a fantasy, and don't carry forward the views presented on the gender being fetishized in their day-to-day lives, there's nothing wrong with it. The problem, of course, is that some people do * .
Put simply; is porn objectifying to women? Sometimes. But it happens to men as well, and this wouldn't be a problem if people were better at drawing the line between fantasy and reality.
But we're not.
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
I dunno—two-dimensional characters with distinct personalities can be more interesting (and yes, more sexy) than blatantly objectified characters. Even if you're reading torture porn, I recall Tongpu saying that he thought that genre was most sexy when the victim had a strong personality and put up a decent fight.
(Maybe I'm outside the target audience for porn . . .)
edited 12th Sep '11 3:09:17 AM by feotakahari
That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
But crafting interesting, believable personalities takes time, and most people who watch porn are looking to get off in a matter of minutes, not hours.
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
^ Ahem . . .
That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful
With stories like that, though, I'd argue that they aren't really porn, but stories with porn in them. Like how Lost had plenty of funny moments, but isn't what I would consider a comedy.
edited 12th Sep '11 4:21:39 AM by RavenWilder
I'd argue that porn is material, which main purpose is turn people on. I prefer porn with plots, but I do consume it to get turned on.
Is there an inherent element of misogyny in the adult film industry? Absolutely. Whether that has to do with the overwhelmingly heterosexual male target audience involved, the people at the helm, or a perpetuating cycle between the two, is not easy to conclude. On the other hand, it's not really our job to legally address misogyny in the AF industry. If we're talking about exploitation of the professionals involved, we'd better address the sports, music, and film industry on the whole. Personally, I am of the opinion that driving the porn industry underground entirely would be a very, very bad idea.
It's fundamentally clear that there are cases in which women clearly don't consent to abuse to which they are objected (i.e. Khan Tusion, Max Hardcore), but these schmucks are best dealt with on an individual basis.
Actually I'm quite sure it has to do with the market being entirely heterosexual men in that regard. Erotic literature is dominated by a female audience and you tend to see men treated in a strange reverse manner in a way that women fantasize about.
I think porn is a category in which gender equality is nearly impossible to achieve because it literally is based on the sexual organ differences.
I've known a few guys who accessed a lot of internet porn before they began getting a lot of real-life sexual experience and it actually affected them negatively. It pretty heavily influenced their expectations of what girls would do in bed - as in they thought of stuff like anal sex and gagging/deep-throating as something that girls were just expected to do as part of sex, not something that you'd maybe discuss first, or only do with a long-term partner. Some of them were VERY judgmental about women's appearances - and ironically the guys that I've known who are the worst in this department aren't exactly the epitome of gorgeous themselves - and a couple complain that they don't get enough sex because most of the girls they meet aren't up to their physical standards, or are "prudes" or "frigid" about what they will and will not do in bed.
Has anyone else come across this? Or do I just know some particularly fucked up young men who probably won't get much sex for the rest of their lives until they change their attitudes?