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NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#351: Oct 27th 2012 at 7:41:03 PM

To be fair, SF Hawkman was just as lame as him, and no one gives him any flak because of it. Except for Seanbaby, but it's Seanbaby.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#352: Oct 27th 2012 at 10:01:07 PM

Maybe because Hanna Barbara then made an even more easy-to-mock Expy of him.

edited 27th Oct '12 10:01:22 PM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#353: Oct 27th 2012 at 10:40:59 PM

Hawkman's lameness was overshadowed because I think even regardless of his redundancy in the plot, flying around with giant wings is still somewhat useful. Super Friends just made Aquaman seem entirely useless in any situation that didn't involve water. I think he worked so well in the Brave and the Bold's version of the League because that team lacked Superman and Wonder Woman, thus giving Aquaman an excuse to show off his badass powerhouse skills.

edited 27th Oct '12 10:42:24 PM by comicwriter

NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#354: Oct 28th 2012 at 6:53:06 AM

Brave and the Bold Aquaman also worked because, unlike most versions of the character, he had a striking, impression-leaving strong personality. SF Aquaman was just a cypher character wise (even more than the average Superfriend!), and even the JLU version was kind of a standard generic badass. Not bad at all, but just another badass in an universe that wasn't scarce of them already.

Robbery Since: Jul, 2012
#355: Oct 28th 2012 at 9:18:04 PM

Having grown up on the Super Friends, I always wondered why they elected to put Aquaman in it at all. I would think Green Lantern's ring-constructs would be more visually interesting, and Hawkman just plain looks cool. I know the original line up for the JLA was Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman, and the Martian Manhunter, with Superman and Batman added in pretty quickly after their debut; from that list, I would have picked Green Lantern as the last member.

I do remember being surprised as a kid by one old episode of SF, because an imprisoned Aquaman bent the bars of his cell with his bare hands to escape. I think it was the only time in SF that he ever demonstrated greater-than-human strength.

edited 28th Oct '12 9:19:14 PM by Robbery

NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#356: Oct 29th 2012 at 3:38:52 PM

IIRC it was just plain popularity that got Aquaman there. Remember, at the time he had more animated episodes of his own than Green Lantern, never mind Hakwman.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#357: Oct 29th 2012 at 5:17:24 PM

Yeah, Aquaman was fairly big, at least as far as the attention DC gave him at the time goes... I think the whole idea of Aquaman being "lame" came from people watching Superfriends after the fact, as apposed to anything else.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
metaphysician Since: Oct, 2010
#358: Oct 29th 2012 at 5:51:40 PM

Yeah, I used to have a tape of old Aquaman cartoons. It was cheesy camp, sure, but the guy was no more lame than any other cartoon hero of the era. It was only in Super Friends that he became useless.

Home of CBR Rumbles-in-Exile: rumbles.fr.yuku.com
RavenWilder Raven Wilder Since: Apr, 2009
Raven Wilder
#359: Oct 30th 2012 at 12:31:09 AM

Thing is, if he's in a movie version of the Justice League, then they only need to come up with one plot where oceans/lakes/rivers/aquariums are important in saving the day (or two or three plots with that if there are sequels). That's much easier than having to do the same thing every week, and crammed into a 30 minute episode to boot.

Though I personally think Aquaman in a Justice League movie would be a bad idea, because you know it'll have Wonder Woman in it, and their origins are similar enough that introducing both in the same film would seem repetitive.

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#360: Nov 26th 2012 at 9:08:06 PM

http://www.hitfix.com/motion-captured/exclusive-is-joseph-gordon-levitt-already-set-to-play-batman-in-justice-league

Take with a massive grain of salt, but some sites are claiming Joseph Gordon Levitt is in talks to appear in the JLA movie as the new Batman after Dark Knight Rises.

TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#361: Nov 27th 2012 at 8:13:14 AM

Yeah, the closest that article comes to citing any kind of official word is the ambiguous phrase, "according to sources".

According to my sources, Christopher Nolan himself will be playing Green Lantern in the Justice League prologue film, Justice Harder, to be released next May. My source is a homeless man I pass on the way to work, but he's a source.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
warrior93 warrior93 from North Carolina Since: Feb, 2011
warrior93
#363: Nov 29th 2012 at 6:41:19 AM

What would have been so bad about Robin John Blake being Batman in the Justice League or don't agents deny stuff all the time for example Miranda Tate not being Talia Al Ghul.

Place your past in a book burn the pages let them cook.
ShadowScythe from Australia Since: Dec, 2009
#364: Nov 29th 2012 at 7:17:04 AM

It would link the Nolan Batman with aliens, goddesses, atlanteans and space police...which doesn't mesh with the tone and setting of his films.

The other thing is that TDKR was definitively an ending to the Nolan films. Any new film using Blake as Batman would be a little odd since Blake is an OC and you'd end up losing part of the dynamic between Batman and his villains when Blake's personality is fairly different to Bruce Wayne's (he's a lot more well adjusted for one which means much less Batman is as crazy as his enemies parallels).

Not to mention part of the appeal of the Batman/Superman partnership is specifically related to the characters of Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent. I guess it'd be like doing a Green Arrow/Green Lantern but with John Stewart or something.

TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#365: Nov 29th 2012 at 7:41:41 AM

Yeah, the big stickler against Blake as Batman in the Justice League film is the simple fact that, assuming this does get off the ground, they're going to want their most iconic characters as a part of it.

Bruce Wayne is one of those. Blake isn't. Kicking off the Justice League franchise without Wayne puts you into a position where either you have to a) never use your most popular character in your franchise, or b) bring Wayne back as Batman, effectively ruining the ending of the Dark Knight Trilogy.

There's just no good reason for DC to put themselves into that position.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
RavenWilder Raven Wilder Since: Apr, 2009
Raven Wilder
#366: Nov 29th 2012 at 2:09:21 PM

Or they could just keep Batman in-costume for the entire movie without reference to his secret identity.

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
Robbery Since: Jul, 2012
#367: Nov 29th 2012 at 5:01:16 PM

Everybody thinks of Batman as Bruce Wayne. Everybody will ALWAYS think of Batman as Bruce Wayne, unless DC does a strong and dedicated push to change that, and stands by it for at least, I'd say, 20 years. Just as Robin will (sorry, folks) ALWAYS be Dick Grayson in the minds of most of the public (even thought Dick Grayson hasn't been Robin since 1984, DC and WB have made no real effort to strongly identify anyone else with that role in the eyes of the general public). If you just have Batman be Batman and never make reference to his secret identity, the audience will just assume he's Bruce Wayne. I imagine Man of Steel (and Justice League after it) will be charting their own unique continuity. And I imagine we'll see Bruce Wayne as Batman.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#368: Nov 29th 2012 at 7:00:29 PM

Haven't we been told that there's a Batman reboot in the works?

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
ShadowScythe from Australia Since: Dec, 2009
#369: Nov 29th 2012 at 7:05:41 PM

I really hope there isn't. If there's a new Batman who shows up in Justice League or World's Finest movies then that's ok but I really don't want another Batman reboot.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#370: Nov 29th 2012 at 7:38:43 PM

I don't like the idea of introducing a character in a crossover movie without context, even if that character is as well known as Batman. It's just feels like bad writing.

edited 29th Nov '12 7:39:03 PM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
ShadowScythe from Australia Since: Dec, 2009
#371: Nov 29th 2012 at 7:52:22 PM

But the Justice League movie itself is basically introducing every super barring Superman without a separate movie to explain them...

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#372: Nov 29th 2012 at 8:02:59 PM

And the less characters they do that with the better. In fact, especially with Batman since he's such an important driving personality behind the League and we'll need context behind why he's even there in the first place.

It's already going to be hell forcing in GL, MM, WW and the Flash into one movie - I'm almost positive that they'll have to forgo any real information on at least one character to make space for the others, probably more.

And we can probably forget about Aquaman until a sequel - there's no way they'll be able to introduce that guy outside of making the plot revolve around him, since his motives are so tied strongly to his mythos.

J'onn is the same way, but I'm assuming they'll be treating the same ground they've done for every origin adaptation thus far and make the movie be about him somewhat, and if the threat is extraterrestrial that at least gives GL an in. Flash I can believe just wandering onto the scene, but Wonder Woman? Ugh, that's going to trouble writing.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
ShadowScythe from Australia Since: Dec, 2009
#373: Nov 29th 2012 at 8:29:42 PM

I dunno, Secret Origins handled a full origin of the Justice League in 3 episodes which means only around 1 hour. Admittedly it didn't have the best intros for John Stewart and Hawkgirl but another hour or 90 minutes could cover that sufficiently.

I feel like the film just needs an opening scene (preferably one that isn't a narration) that establishes that there has been a rise of superhumans in the world and then just run with it.

We can get quick insights into each character's backstory via small dialogue moments while the subsequent individual films can give proper origins.

I think the Incredibles was a great example of just introducing a world with heroes and letting the audience run with it.

I know each DC hero has a separate origin and explanation for their powers but I think the explanation for the powers is baggage in a Justice League movie and the backstory can come up reasonably naturally in dialogue. Then we can get actual origins in the individual movies later on. It's not ideal, but it's certainly not impossible.

I'd say Jonn Jonzz, Wondy and GL are the heroes who'd need sufficient explanation. Batman is a badass in a batsuit, Flash is a guy who runs fast and Aquaman is from Atlantis which is already a concept in the public consciousness (or just call him a merman which evokes similar ideas). Those 3 don't really need anymore sufficient explanation and good writing can let their personalities shine through their dialogue.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#374: Nov 29th 2012 at 8:47:09 PM

Secret Origins was the first few episodes of an animated show and wasn't a standalone film - any intros not dealt with in the first few episodes could be easily revealed bit by bit (or in one or two cases wholesale) during the course of the series, which is why they could get away with not giving anyone but J'onn a decent backstory/introduction - they could just do it later.

The case isn't that Secret Origins introduced the characters well, but that over the course of it's several dozen episodes Justice League developed the characters well.

The world of superheroes is introduced in Incredibles, but absolutely nobody who is important to the plot has development before they're actually important - characters like Gamma Jack or Gazerbeam are mentioned, but don't just show up without any real introduction. Frozone is the closest the movie has to a character like that, and he's given scenes establishing him and Mr. Incredible are best friends, have had a long history together, and are going through their mid-life crises at the same time. It helps that the plot of Incredibles is expressly written so that all the characters' stories are tied together and nobody has preexisting baggage that needs to be introduced or dealt with, whereas Justice League runs into the problem of having everyone have their own mythos that needs to be fielded well.

Batman is a badass in a batsuit, Flash is a guy who runs fast and Aquaman is from Atlantis which is already a concept in the public consciousness

Each of those has a problem of "why," though... well, Aquaman has a problem with "how" as well. Inserting and explaining the concept and use of Atlantis in a movie series requires a lot of time dedicated to it - even Justice League did so by specifically having two episodes based solely on introducing the guy.

edited 29th Nov '12 8:51:42 PM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
maxwellelvis Mad Scientist Wannabe from undisclosed location Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: In my bunk
Mad Scientist Wannabe
#375: Nov 29th 2012 at 8:51:09 PM

[up]What about Justice League New Frontier?

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

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