The History Thread!

I guess it's high time we have one of these for any of us who are historically savvy and/or interested in the subject matter to spend time discussing civilly matters related to the epics of the long gone past. This is by no means a covert way to quench my boredom on a late night.

For fear of potential Flame Bait we might try to avoid speaking of the very recent history though. And also, if Saber wishes to join this thread for any reason, we will only allow her in if she takes off that historically inaccurate full plate and don the period-appropriate chain haubergeon, conical/bespectacled hemet and huscarl/elongated kite shield.

Had another thread like this before. But the more the merrier eh?

What's your take on pirates?

I have a certain admiration for Blackbeard. But then again I suppose he's one of the more popular plunderers.

edited 16th Mar '11 4:13:32 AM by Shichibukai

Sir Francis Drake, blurring the line between romantic patriotic privateer and ruthless pirate.

*salute*

Pirates are cool, but given that naval matters are my least knowledgeable field, I'll have to keep silent.

Anyway, Seven Years War. Discuss.

This war calls dibs on the title "First World War".

O wait... that should be the Thirty Years, shouldn't it?

No. The Thirty Years War was a Europe-only conflict, as the non-Spanish/Portuguese colonies were too sparsely inhabited for them to be important.

Of course, that is only if we go with the eurocentric point of view that a world war = a war involving most major European/Western powers.

A World War has to either involve at least one independent combatant from the New World, Europe, and Asia (Africa sadly has yet to play a major part on the world stage), or have at least one theater of war in those regions.

Ah, so there. I learn something new everyday.

Well, that's the definition I use.

Anything from Roman times you have in mind?

I do have an important topic here.

Late Roman inflation and economy failure. Discuss.

Well, the Romans couldn't do anything right, so they copied the civilizations that could (Examples: Greece, Persia, Egypt); or tried to substitute for that by putting more effort ( spectacular elaborate temple-like bathrooms, the ludicrously big Circus Maximus, etc.). Since the Romans had a tendency to work harder rather than smarter and a tendency towards extremes, it would be in character for them to try to fix their economy by making coins worth a lot more, and that caused the economy to fail.

Didn't the Seven Years War get England into debt, and wasn't that why England decided to make money by doing the Opium wars and taxing the American colonies?

edited 16th Mar '11 11:02:53 AM by AlirozTheConfused

Hold it a second. The Romans did copy many things from the Greek and elsewhere, but to say that they could not do anything right is a tad oversimplification. If anything, the Legions was an example of the military done right.

Also, inflation is essentially coins being worth less rather than more, which is, if I read you correctly, the opposite of what you just discussed.

edited 16th Mar '11 5:04:19 PM by ArgeusthePaladin

The latter, yes; the former, the Opium Wars were in the Second (i.e., Victorian) British Empire.

I've always felt the opium war was all about Britain being the equivalent of a dick on the world political scheme.

They cherry-tapped the entire Chinese military sea border guards, for chrissake.

Hey, when you're the world's top dog, you get to be a dick. I mean, look at the USA now.

Dickishness in the name of import balances.

Yes, the UK was an empire run by merchants. Imagine if you globalized the Serenissima.

An empire run by merchants, capitalists, factories, vertical monopolies, and the one and only Queen Victoria.

Seriously though, some people need to make a formal, academic, peer-reviewed comparison between Queen Vicky and Empress Cixi.

edited 16th Mar '11 5:15:04 PM by ArgeusthePaladin

Well, the major difference was that Vicky reigned but did not rule. People like Disraeli and Gladstone were the ones really running the show.

And Cixi was the opposite: Ruled, but did not reign.

I've come realize the overall quests of the Great Powers, upon reflection:

• England/Britain: Maintain the balance of power so that no other power could threaten its thalassocracy, and more importantly, the home islands.
• France: Expand its borders to more defensible frontiers: The Rhine in the east, the Alps in the southeast, and the Pyrenees in the southwest.
• Prussia/Imperial Germany: Carve out a position as a great power (18th century), Gain supremacy in Germany and avenge Napoleon's humiliation (19th century), Become top dog (early 20th century)
• Habsburgs: Gain political hegemony in Europe, through primarily diplomatic means.
• Imperial Russia: GAIN A WARM-WATER PORT.
• Ottoman Empire: Make good on claims to be the successor of the Roman Empire.

And for everyone:

GRAB AS MUCH FREE LAND IN THE UNCIVILIZED WORLD AS WE CAN!

To disastrous result to us people in those yet-uncivilized nations at that time.

edited 16th Mar '11 5:26:27 PM by ArgeusthePaladin

Only after the Congress of Vienna, mind you; that was when they all agreed to YOU NO TOUCH EUROPEAN BORDERS.

Or just continuing their old spice era empires(i.e., the Dutch).