rename so people stop thinking it's about particles: Minovsky Particle

The numbers: ~160 wicks, ~360 inbound links.

Note the last paragraph of the description:

I think the fact that we needed this disclaimer indicates that the name is misleading.

We could keep the Trope Namer by changing the name to Minovsky Science or Minovsky Physics.

But maybe a rename isn't enough. A case could be made that this should be merged with Magic A Is Magic A: Minovsky Particle is "Fictional science follows consistent and well-defined rules"; Magic A Is Magic A is "Fictional magic follows consistent and well-defined rules". As we all know, sufficiently advanced science and sufficiently defined magic are indistinguishable from one another.

I've been convinced that a merge with Magic A Is Magic A is neither necessary nor good. I still think the title needs changing.

edited 17th Feb '11 6:56:02 PM by MetaFour

I didn't write any of that.

This isn't the first time this thread has popped up, and I doubt it will be the last.

There's a subtle difference between Magic A Is Magic A, which is mere consistency and Minovsky Particle which have rigidly defined rules based around One Big Lie (namely the existence of the particle/energy). Pym Particles are likely getting mentioned in the description because somebody doesn't know how to comment out text. They also are commonly described as "they shrink/grow" things. If they're used otherwise and I don't know about how they get used, then I'm wrong, but the only way I've seen them used does fit Minovsky Particle.

If you wanted a more firm criteria: an imaginary thing that does one specific thing, and this thing can be described entirely with physics without reservations.

Edit: And also, the "made up particle" is something that is probably inevitable with a name like that.

Further edits: Actually, upon thinking about it, Pym Particles not only allow you to shrink/grow, they give you all Required Secondary Powers.

edited 16th Feb '11 2:58:18 AM by Deboss

Fight smart, not fair.

So, you think a rename is in order, then?

I didn't write any of that.

Maybe. I can't think of anything that wouldn't wind up with misuse though. One name I saw proposed was One Big Lie, but that's likely to get used as a trope about lying. I simply can't think of anything.

One Use Phlebotinum comes to mind, but it's likely to get confused for Phlebotinum  ^*

that you can only use once.

Fight smart, not fair.

I'd be cool with grandfathering in the Trope Namer and just changing the name to Minovsky Science. That would have the added benefit of making wick replacement easier.

I didn't write any of that.

I really dislike the idea of doing that. But it seems the most likely answer now. I guess I should probably go through the wiks, but first sleep.

Fight smart, not fair.

The reason Pym Particles are mentioned in the article is because they aren't a Minovsky Particle. There's no rigid structure of how they work, why they work, or any sort of consistency besides 'They make size changing possible'...and the writers can't even keep that straight, not to mention all of the size-changers who don't use Pym Particles..

Really, what we need to do is weed out the stuff that links to this but shouldn't, as well as the stuff this mentions but also shouldn't.

Pym Particles shouldn't be here. Adamantium, however, probably could. It doesn't have many properties, but the ones it does have are pretty stringently adhered to.

Magic A Is Magic A is slightly different..that's consistent effects and rules between different things. The Laws of Physics of the work's universe. In a way, it's a Supertrope of the Minovsky Particle, which would be the subtrope along with Unobtanium. NOT however, Green Rocks.

The tropes are well distinct enough that a merge is not required, nor convenient (Magic A Is Magic A == "this world functions in a consistent way"; Minovsky Particle == "this feature of the world functions in this specific and well-defined way"). Considering the precedent I like the idea of renaming this trope to Minovski Science the more.

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?

The note about Pym Particles is a for-editors thing, not a for-readers thing. That's what comment tags are for.

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

The comment tags must have been added since the last time Pym Particles were ripped out then, 'cause the reason it was there was people kept adding them. Became a small editwar, putting them in, ripping them out, over and over..

And the fact that we needed that tag to keep Pym Particles out strongly suggests that the name Minovsky Particle is misleading and needs to be changed.

I didn't write any of that.

Actually, I think it's more the nature of that particular example is one that if you only read a certain bit of the work, it looks like an example. If you read more broadly, you see how it breaks down. Hence the edit wars.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

If we want to keep the mention of Pym Particles in the article, it at least needs rewriting for style/tone. A quick explanation of why it doesn't qualify for the trope, from a neutral perspective, is better than an abrasive "Stop Adding Them You Idiots!"

edited 17th Feb '11 9:14:06 PM by Stratadrake

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

I've been of the opinion that things that look like the trope, but actually aren't should get a mention for a while.

Fight smart, not fair.

Yeah, they have a tendency to pop up from time to time, especially with really large universes. Changing the name here won't stop it from being added, nor will fixing the trope definition. It's a problem between people with a casual view of the work versus a more well rounded one.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Just so long as we keep the examples that are clearly Green Rocks, random Techno Babble Phlebotinium or that end up as New Powers as the Plot Demands out. This article is for those rare things that never end up getting new abilities just because a different writer comes on board. GN particles, while on the surface appearing to be Minovsky Particles (The in-verse version) end up doing...some things that seem very silly when taken with the other effects. How silly, I don't know, as I only watched the first half dozen or so episodes of Gundam 00, but from what's written here...they do too much too broadly.

I'd knock them off myself.

Fight smart, not fair.

In no way are GN particles an example of this they end up doing various things throughout the series that are not set in stone. (The end of S2 and the movie are especially egregious).

edited 18th Feb '11 3:59:08 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Off-topic: I Read That As "rename so people stop thinking it's about panties." I blame the ad server.

Whoever said all size-changing in the Marvel universe depended on Pym Particles? They do not "make size-changing possible", they just happen to be the most reliable and safe method current Earth-616 science can produce. There are plenty of instances of size-changing through magic, other-dimensional technology, etc.

mudshark: I don't expect Nate to make sense, really.

Would you care to list the abilities of them?

Fight smart, not fair.

For that matter, originally, Pym particles only let somebody grow, and, I believe, was in the form of a gas. The shrinking was added later, as well as the fact you didn't have to store it in canisters that looked like a smoke grenade any more.

Does it grant Required Secondary Powers?

Fight smart, not fair.

@Kendra: Are you saying its properties were retconned? Then it's not really a non-negotiable, "set in stone" behavior that the trope requires.

Speaking of which, I still personally have trouble with the definition of Minovsky Particle and how to divide it from Applied Phlebotinum. Is it like Deconstructed Phlebotinum?

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

Its Applied Phlebotinum is just a plot device. This is the exact opposite of that but with strict rules that are set in stone and are used more than once but never change or suddenly get new abilities. So those Pym particles might of been this trope till another writer took over. (Not sure though I do not know the work)

The trope namer is a Jamming, power supply and the source behind beam weapons... it has never changed from that in 30 years.

edited 18th Feb '11 9:52:30 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!