Buddhists and Intrigued Non-Buddhist Laymen, CONVERGE HERE

What is a wat anyway?

A wat is a monastery temple. The word typically applies to temples of Thai, Cambodian, or Laos origin.◊ The Japanese and such have their own words for wats.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Oh wow, that's seriously beautiful! And "wat" is a funny word, if you don't mind me saying. I almost considered asking you "Wat is a wat?" but decided I wasn't ready to be strangled to death for making such a horrible pun. Hm, so if I actually convert to Buddhism from whatever I am now, I guess this means I'll have to see if there are any wats near where I live.

Go check them out even if you don't consider yourself Buddhist. They are neat places to visit. Talking with Bhikkhu is interesting as well. They can answer questions you may have regarding Buddhism among other things. Like counseling.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

That actually sounds pretty cool. Now to check if we even have any in my backwards little town.

You'd be amazed at what you can find in certain places. Though I live in California and we have a HUGE Asian community more or less everywhere.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

From some random thing I found online

So do you know how accurate that statement is?

Kill all math nerds

The Buddha wouldn't perform miracles because a skeptic asked him because he knew it wouldn't prove shit to them. Reputedly. He was reportedly capable of such things as levitation and used them to help some sentient beings. He gained these powers through meditation, but warned against following his principles for the sake of learning such things. He didn't want people to become Bhikkhu just so they could float and purify water with magic meditation powers.

Buddhism doesn't try and teach lay people how to do miracles. Or any sort of magical thing really. Some sects have exorcists among the Sangha though. Some. Others believe in blessings and will ask for them from Deva or Bhikkhu. Bhikkhu will do things like bless marriages and births for example. I am guessing the blessings come from the Deva who have power to meddle with such things as opposed to from the Bhikkhu. Deva are greater than humans after all. Some sects are bigger on magical and supernatural forces than others.

Messing with things like this when you have no or incomplete knowledge of them isn't something Buddhists support I would think. Because you may fuck shit up and fucking shit up is bad not just for you but those around you. Which is a big no. Condemning people for it and refusing to offer them help or sympathy is also bad though.

Using such things for selfish desires is certainly a no-no for Buddhists. Don't be a selfish prick is part of our shit. A big part. Using such things for what you mistakenly see as a selfless act that is really a selfish one would likely be an issue too. I've read talks on true selflessness from Buddhists and this could likely apply to miracle granting witchdoctors and shit as well. Like saying you're altruistic when you're really just an asshole who wants fame or a douche who offers people revenge.

In short the answer is: It really depends though the general response tends to be "Don't do it".

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

So, last night I was talking with my friends and mentioned that I'm considering converting to Buddhism. I had no idea what kind of ignorance carpet bomb I'd just gotten myself into. I wasn't even able to get a word in edgewise about why I'm considering it because one of my friends immediately started spouting off about how Buddhism sucks because Christianity is better because he's achieved miracles by praying to God but hasn't managed to do so by praying to Buddha. It's actually a bit of a coincidence that you should be discussing the whole "miracle" thing right now. Then another friend pulled out the tired, unspeakably stupid "argument" that the Buddha was apparently really fat despite trying to teach people about separation from worldly desires.

In short, my friends are a bunch of idiots.

edited 14th Apr '11 8:51:47 AM by randomtropeloser

Well Hotei was fat and Hotei may or may not be the Maitreya Buddha (a future Buddha who will teach the Dhamma and revolutionize the world). He may or may not be a Bodhisatta. One thing is certain and that is that Hotei is a Chinese deity.

Hotei is not The Buddha that people speak of when they talk about The Buddha though... Shakyamuni was quite skinny. He was also reportedly capable of miracles like Jesus. Shakyamuni didn't get his powers through God though. It was from meditation and training as mentioned.

I've come across things like this before sadly. The best courses of action are to either one, never talk about the subject around these people again or two, attempt to explain things in a calm manner. Method two is wholly dependent on what sort of people they are though... One is affected by that as well, but not to the great make or break extent as two.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

I know, I actually did get the chance to explain that Hotei wasn't the Buddha and his importance to the faith was disputable. My friend apologized but said that I couldn't really blame him for only having been exposed to the stereotypical figure most Westerners think of when Buddhism comes up.

He really can't be blamed for that. Most people think of Hotei as The Buddha and most people refer to him as that. It's misinformation and it can be corrected on small individual levels easily enough. It is the mainstream view of Buddha though so large scale change would be a bitch. Levitating during meditation too is a big part of the mainstream image. Also...hippies.

edited 14th Apr '11 10:54:30 AM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

That's true. I suppose it wasn't really his ignorance that bothered me, but I'm still pretty bummed about my other friend's bigotry, especially considering he's usually one of the nicest people I know.

Eh everyone's got flaws. That's one of his. Not saying you don't have a reason to be a bit grumpy but yeah... He's still a nice guy overall though yeah?

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

For the most part, yes. I guess I'll just have to not talk with him about religion again.

Yeah pretty much.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Wow, I'm sorry you had that kind of experience. When I told my friends and family I was considering becoming Buddhist, I got positive responses. It's so easy to forget that not all communities are as accepting as mine.

Life is like a game of Mahjong. Sometimes you need to take risks if you want to come out ahead.

The only negative responses I've got from people are those who know what Enlightenment entails. I tend to get negative responses like "That doesn't sound like a good religion" or "Buddhism sounds depressing". I sometimes get negative responses after explaining things. I think the more neutral comments are the most common though. At least in real life. On the fora I tend to get more negative comments in certain places. They typically don't go past "I think Buddhism has a depressing and bad way of thinking" though.

edited 15th Apr '11 1:58:46 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Turns out that theme park mentioned earlier is actually based around folklore, not Buddhism specifically. It's still pretty cool, I guess.

^In part, I think it's because "dukkha" is often translated as "suffering" when used in the Four Noble Truths. The latter has strong negative connotations, which many people aren't happy to accept. The ability to minimise dukkha for you and people around you*

, and to realise what your karma has brought (and hopefully meet its demands in a better way) is something which is important to me in Buddhism, but it seems to get overshadowed.

"Doctor Who means never having to say you're kidding." - Bocaj

From what I've talked to them about it's not just the Dukkha thing. It's also how Dukkha is minimized. The idea of Nibbana disturbs many people. The ideas of becoming detached from one's self and the world just isn't something many Westerners think of as comforting or even good. The "desire breeds Dukkha" thing also bothers many.

edited 15th Apr '11 5:52:14 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Could anyone here tell me a bit about Theravada Buddhism? I'd like to know how it differs from Mahayana Buddhism, some of its precepts, and its history.

Life is like a game of Mahjong. Sometimes you need to take risks if you want to come out ahead.

I can. In a way. I don't think of myself as particularly knowledgeable but I will do my best to describe what I do know!

All right...so Theravada is the old school Buddhism. It's the old conservative branch. Mahayana added a lot to the canon in terms of Suttas. Theravada lacks things like the Heart Sutta in the Tripitaka as just one example. Theravada also lacks the emphasis on the Bodhisatta and Bodhisatta ideal that Mahayana has. While Mahayana praises them highly and encourages all beings to take up the vows at some point in part of a grand plan to get everyone to Nibbana Theravada well...it doesn't emphasize that. Instead the Arahat is the end goal for most Theravadans.

The Arahant is an Enlightened being. Anyone who is has reached Enlightenment earns this title. They've destroyed all the unpleasant roots to the fetters that tie beings to Samsara. The ideal of the Arahant is considered to be selfish in Mahayana and is often viewed as being impermanent. While there are those who return after some time in Theravada it is more than possible for it to be a permanent thing.

Theravada is common in most of Southeast Asia. So countries like Cambodia and Thailand it is the main branch. Theravada originated in India. Like Mahayana Theravada consists of many schools one of which being Thai Forest Tradition as an example.

The other wiki's page on it.

If you'd like some info on how Thai Theravadans practice holidays and go about meditation retreats I can give you my first hand experiences! I can also talk about the Bhikkhu at the Wat I visit.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Going a weigh in on the “Buddhism is depressing” thing a bit. Mostly in agreement with what’s been posting here. People tend to get the shortened version of “Life sucks, so try to escape it.” When really it’s a tad more complex than all that.

Probably a more fitting way of putting it is that dukkha is “dis-ease”, in that living, for all its joys comes with a certain degree of worrying about what’s on the horizon or what calamity may come about to threaten those joys.

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.

Yeah Dukkha is much broader than many think. It includes things like "OMG MY FAMILY JUST DIED ANGST" and even little things like worrying about whether or not you're going to burn dinner. There will always be dis-ease in life. This is both Buddhism's greatest strength and its greatest weakness. It likes to be broad and open ended with many things. Sukkha or happiness suffers from a broad definition as well.

The whole idea of happiness takes it in the ass big time in English since we have essentially two definitions...One being more traditional transient happiness and true ever lasting happiness brought about by Enlightenment. It'd probably be better to call that calm. I have noticed that Buddhism's being pitched as "The Religion of Being Happy" tends to cause some of this backlash because many do not think of True Buddhist Happiness when they think happy.

edited 15th Apr '11 6:48:07 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Hmmm, interesting. There are a lot of Cambodians in the city I go to school, so it's likely that I've met some followers of Theravada. I'm not personally into conservative "old-school" thought, but if it works for you, it works for you. And yes, I'd certainly be interested in hearing your stories about Thai celebrations and meditation. I'm always interested in learning about different cultures.

edited 15th Apr '11 7:32:05 PM by Shadowbell

Life is like a game of Mahjong. Sometimes you need to take risks if you want to come out ahead.