[Official] Discussion of Subjective formatting on works pages

I'm sure Fast Eddie is working on that.

Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.

This is really useful. Thanks.

Question: are you going to do this with Trivia as well?

Fight smart, not fair.

Just wondering, would it be possible to add a "qualifier" to a link to show that it's In-Universe use of a subjective trope, so they won't appear underlined?

Something like with the hottip: [[SubjectiveTrope:instory: Subjective Trope]]

Or would this invite too much abuse?

edited 27th Jan '11 8:01:15 AM by AlexThePrettyGood

Everything can be found on the Internet... except common sense.

Didn't you read the original thread? The plan is to eventually do this for everything that doesn't belong in Main, possibly with a different notification depending on the namespace.

Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.

One problem is that although for the purposes of classification we have to decide "yes" or no", whether a trope is subjective isn't always a yes or no question—it comes in degrees. A particular instance of a subjective trope may be low in subjectivity. Whether Dr. Smith in Lost In Space suffered Villain Decay is less controversial than most tropes that are not listed as subjective.

Another problem is that getting rid of all instances of subjective tropes implies a rigidity that I don't think the site is really about. Consider: most justifications for getting rid of subjective tropes would apply to getting rid of all subjective terms. Is that the next step?

Is it really that bad to give an example of a character committing genocide and link it to Moral Event Horizon?

edited 27th Jan '11 8:44:35 AM by arromdee

We aren't getting rid of them, for the nth time. However, we are finding ways to segregate them that don't imply that they have the same weight or value as tropes that objectively occur within a work. This is Word of God from Eddie. We are about tropes, not opinions.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Incorrect. Subjectivity vs objectivity is easy to figure out. Is it a fact? Then it's objective. Can someone disagree with you without being demonstratably wrong? Then it's subjective.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

By that logic we have way more subjectives than we currently list as such.

Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.

Yeah I too am irritated by the underline, it just looks odd.

I think giving them a different coloring like the special .php links have (Cut List) would work better, yet which color would be best to use I don't know. But it's a good idea of marking the varying tropes on the work pages without having to look them up.

edited 27th Jan '11 9:16:04 AM by Lock

Programming and surgery have a lot of things in common: Don't start removing colons until you know what you're doing.

We are attempting to draw just that distinction in this thread. Feel free to contribute.

edited 27th Jan '11 9:14:49 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Eddie said we already tried that long ago and it was uglier, so not likely to happen.

edited 27th Jan '11 9:15:37 AM by Killomatic

Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.

Is this still in the process of being set up? Because I'm noticing a number of YMMV items that aren't being underlined, such as Ear Worm or Flanderization.

“I just think that's really shady." "Shady?!" - Stephanie & Chad, The Amazing Race 17

They aren't on the index. And Flanderization is not supposed to be subjective, damn it. How has no one started a repair thread on it yet?

Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.

So if it's not on the index, then it doesn't go there? Because certain pages definitely have a banner saying "do not put this on a main page, only put it on YMMV," but they aren't on that index.

“I just think that's really shady." "Shady?!" - Stephanie & Chad, The Amazing Race 17

It is limited to items on the Main.YMMV index page.

I have to chuckle about the folks that are finding the underline irritating. They are getting a taste of what it feels like for the folks that don't want that opinion junk on the main page. If I could make those opinion things smell like a fart, I would.

Making the underline go away on pages where the opinion stuff is welcome is a good idea. I'll work on that.

edited 27th Jan '11 10:57:46 AM by FastEddie

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty

It's not working for redirects like Nightmare Fuel Unleaded. Is that a problem? Also, it doesn't show up on Fan Speak like Ruined Forever.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Or for stuff on Darth Wiki, like Wall Banger.

“I just think that's really shady." "Shady?!" - Stephanie & Chad, The Amazing Race 17

It won't work for anything that is not in the YMMV index. This is just the testing stages, give it some time.

edited 27th Jan '11 10:34:31 AM by Killomatic

Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.

My web browser shows every single link as underlined. Is there some other way I can tell the difference between a normal and a should-be-YMMV link?

Don't override the default CSS of TV Tropes? How you do that, I don't know.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

There is a profile preference to set them underlined. You'll have to set that to off to get the benefit.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty

So, when a YMMV objectively happens in-universe, it should still be underlined on the main namespace?

Couldn't we at least get a tag, or something, so the underlining could disappear if we decided that this example is right where it is?

I agree - there should be a way to flag it if it is in-universe and should stay there.

Meanwhile, I see that they're no longer underlined on YMMV pages. Thanks!

“I just think that's really shady." "Shady?!" - Stephanie & Chad, The Amazing Race 17

It is just off while a bug is worked on. It's coming back.

I think in-universe use of a YMMV item is rare enough that we can live with the few underlines remaining in Main.

edited 27th Jan '11 1:58:27 PM by FastEddie

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty