The New Thundercats

First, if you don't like the show, then why are you posting a review that seems mostly favorable?

Second, I think being weak to your own reflection isn't much better than being weak to sunlight. Maybe a bit more original, but that's it.

And yes, I will keep comparing this show to Avatar, both versions. The Equalists were brainwashed? It had to have been some really good brainwashing considering the only anti-bender sentiment seems to come from organized crime. The show never shows us every day benders being dicks to non-benders so excuse me if I find the premise a bit "tell, don't show." I find the idea of the Fire Nation starting an all out war during a time of peace to kind of stretch my belief. At least with Thundercats the tension goes back as far as anyone can remember because the Cats were more or less made the oppressors by Mumm-Ra. So excuse me if I find the story in Thundercats a bit more meaningful and being a bit more dynamic as opposed to Korra, where despite also being human barely any of the Equalist thugs show any kind of depth, aside from Amon who you would expect it from. They do hardly anything to show how helpless non-benders feel or how angry it makes them except a very few instances (like that shop in the beginning or when the cops deal with that non-bending neighborhood, and even then it's not exactly played up). I cannot sympathize with the Equalists if I can't see the process they would go through to become one. And they already managed to do that sort of thing with Jet in one episode in Avatar. Almost the whole 12 episodes of Korra centered on this conflict with no filler and they couldn't even do that. The morality in Korra is a lot more black and white than it is in Avatar or Thundercats from my perspective because of this.

I cannot fucking stress it enough how important the scene where Lion-O talks to the lizard soldiers and lets then go is to me. And him doing that is going to change the flow of the war if they had made a fucking second season so they could show that. That's the whole fucking point of the series is to show how Lion-O doing this shit is going to convince people to join him and not Mumm-Ra. And I would have loved Korra so much better if at least ONE Equalist had shown some fucking human decency when Amon kidnapped three little kids and a baby. Or at least not been so happy to see them tied up and gagged on stage. Korra and Aang are the fucking Avatar! Being a peace talker is kind of expected and they barely touch the subject in either series. As much as people like to talk about what great themes the series has, the conflicts were resolved because they defeated the bad guys in combat. At least when Mumm-Ra got beat at the end of the 2011 series it meant something because Lion-O managed to get several different races to work together towards a common goal. Avatar and Korra are both heavily focused on individual character drama, so their characters get a lot of depth,but when it comes to the big overarching plot I don't find it as deep or meaningful.

And I'm going to have to strongly disagree bout the animation. Maybe it's not as fluid as Korra or Avatar at times, maybe there are times when it can be a little wonky, but it is far from being bad, and it's certainly a lot better than most animation on TV. In my opinion, I think the animation is on average great. I think the animation is especially good in Legacy, The Forest of Magi Oar, and Recipe for Disaster, among other instances.

And don't fucking tell me what a god damn FACT is unless you're willing to give some evidence. Maybe Cheetara is a bit two-dimensional, but don't you fucking tell me that Panthro, the Wilys, or Pumyra have no personality. I spent a lot of time analyzing each of them and explaining their depth, so unless you can prove me wrong I cannot believe you. And don't just go with "you're over analyzing things" because that's just lazy. Make an actual god damn argument, because so far you've made me even less convinced than before.

edited 13th Jun '13 2:45:09 PM by StarOutlaw

I'm going to chime in as someone who never watched the original Thundercats, thus am looking at this show on its own merits with no other version to compare it to.

I loved the characters. Cheetara seemed like she could have used a focus episode to really develop her, but otherwise the interactions were pretty good. Lion-O's idealism, hope, and insecurities were pretty real feeling. I liked seeing him trust himself enough to break free of prejudice, I loved seeing the idea that Lion-O ended up interested in technology and equality. I also like that while he felt it was wrong, he never truly saw how wrong his dad was. It felt very real.

The sibling rivalry felt real. The kittens were brave, and not just carbon copy clones of each other like so many twins are. Panthro was great; he didn't just decide to follow Lion-O because Lion-O was the rightful heir, he had to earn Panthro's respect. Panthro had the feel of someone who had led a rough-and-tumble life, but that's not all he was. His friendship with the Berbils was great. Pumyra was well done. And best of all, the romance did not consume the story. It didn't hurl the main plot in any direction, and was there for flavor to the story instead of being a good chunk of it.

The plot could lag sometimes, but there was a clear goal, and every episode that felt like filler ended up being relevant somehow. It had purpose, and twists that were really well done and didn't feel inserted for the need of insertion. Mumm-Ra was a threat, and the Thunder Cats had direction and planning without seeming like slaves to the storyline.

Yes there were laggy episodes. But overall this series was pretty good. It's something I would rewatch.

@Star Outlaw

There were some elements that made it look promising until it all went down hill as a motherfucker.

To quote a post from another forum:

Do you know why it did with the first two eps? Because nostalgia was one heavy motherfucker for most viewers.

Even then that doesn't same the show because it didn't have anything that made it stand out above the original. Moreover, the romantic plot tumor was more troubling than the ones people bitched about in Legend of Korra.

Also take my advice and not compare this show to Avatar. You will be laughed at. You will be destroyed. It's not worth it, and above all they're not comparable.

Lion-O is a terrible version of The Messiah trope.

Also whoppe-de doodah Lion-O had several races working with him. It's nothing in comparison to when he was crowned lord of the thundercats after completing the "trials" in the original series. For one there's him doing the iconic Thundercat cry with all of Third Earth watching on. It's him showing how he has earned the acknowledgement of his people and those of Third Earth. That and it wasn't as awfully done as the one in Thundercats 2011.

A city was just destroyed and we can be upbeat.

On another note: calm your tits just because I'm citing a fact. Whether you like it or not it had more flaws than your daily in-city prostitute.

@Windona

The sibling rivalry failed in nearly aspect nor did it have the impact which I got from Zuko and Azula of the last airbender. That and it was annoying as holy hell. Either, Lion-O would lose his cool more than he did in the original series and be more belligerent and abrasive than usual, or he would bitch and moan about how Cheetaara likes Tygra more than him.

edited 24th Jun '13 6:06:19 AM by Couchpotato20

I agree that the only reason this reincarnation is even rememberable in my book is that it did use a shitload of nostalgic flair in the first two episodes, which basically add up to just one good hour long special that never needed to become a series if it wasn't going to stick to the original's history. This new incarnation was so cringeworthy I decided to drown it out by watching Street Sharks! Still was waiting for more episodes before it was obvious it was canceled.

@Couchpotato 20 Actually, it never felt like that to me. Lion-O didn't 'bitch and moan' that much, and after a couple of episodes he was completely over Cheetara and moved on. There were times when Lion-O and Tigra seemed to be competing, and there were times when you could tell they cared about each other and they worked together well. You knew they bickered, but had each other's backs in the end.

I cannot say anything about the nostalgic value, because I never watched the original series. So on its own, it seems a good enough series to me.

How about you go fuck yourself? I was just going to let this all go until I read that. I am sick of your bullshit both here and in other threads. You don't like the show? Fine. But quit acting like your opinion is the fucking consensus that everyone agrees with like some arrogant asshole, and especially quit taking a shit on anything you don't like. There's a difference between criticizing and hating, and all I see from you is hate.

I made the comparison to Avatar, and I will keep making those comparisons because they are there. I like this show, a lot, it gave me something to think about. I have seen Avatar, the DCAU, Young Justice, and an ass load of other cartoons generally considered high quality by fans, so I like to believe I can make a good judgement over the quality of an animated show and don't blindly love every fucking thing. This reboot is my favorite, not just favorite cartoon but favorite piece of entertainment in a very long time, and it's probably going to be my favorite for a long time to come. I and others have analyzed the themes and the characters and have found plenty to like about this show. If this was as shitty a show as you claim, I doubt it's trope pages would be as large as they are. Every week on tumblr I see people live-blogging about the show when it airs on Toonami and lamenting about it being canceled. The guys at Toonami clearly think it's good enough to be on their block.

You think I'll get laughed at and destroyed by comparing this to the Sacred Cow that is Avatar? Well fuck you and any snob who thinks that way. I STILL have yet to see you give an GOOD argument as to why I can't, or why I'm wrong. All I see you post is a bunch of meaningless, unconstructive shit. Is Avatar a better cartoon? Yeah, probably, but it's not incomparable, because clearly I HAVE compared it, here and on Avatar forums. And you are the ONLY person I've ever seen to try and give me shit for making the comparison, which to me just makes you look like an asshole who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

And yeah, Lion-O getting a bunch of races working with him is worth a few flying shits because of all the fucking racial tensions built up over centuries, so it's really important to see them working together. The races working together in the original series doesn't mean much if they were always living together peacefully. That's the fucking silver lining in the crashed cloud city, because it's showing that there's still some fucking hope, but I guess you're so busy being a blind hater about everything that you can't even fucking see that. You don't even bother giving an explanation why you think reboot Lion-O is a terrible messiah, you just go in believing it and that's what you see. And again, you over exaggerate character flaws that Lion-O and Tygra developed out of by the time of the trials. You know how many episodes Lion-O bitches and moans about Cheetara and Tygra? Fucking 2. Episodes 14, and 15. You could count episode 9, but that was barely anything. And Tygra gets over most of his shit right after 13.

The old Thundercats is still not that good just because it had a great intro. Even compared to other 80s cartoons like G.I. Joe it's writing wasn't as good. I haven't even seen much G.I. Joe and I already know it has much better continuity and character development from the very few episodes I've watched. Lion-O's trials in the original were some of my favorites, but in the end everything more or less goes back to the way it was. For such an important story arc, it didn't feel like much had changed or progressed by the next episode. At least with the reboot when Lion-O completes his trial he has his soul on the line, at least he offers to make an ultimate sacrifice worse than death. And at least by the end of the reboot's season there's some progress with the war effort because now he's got some allies when no one thought that was possible. At least there's some fucking significance behind that and things would have been different if it continued.

None of your shit is EVER going to change my opinion of this show. Whether you fucking like it or not, not everyone shares your shitty hateful opinions, and your shitty opinion isn't a fact no matter how much you bitch about it or try to act smug about it. Even people who don't like something can at least act with some fucking courtesy, of which you seem to have little of. At least when I hate something, like Dm C, I can at least try to give a good explanation as to WHY. That's one thing that separates good opinions from bad ones, and why I find your opinions terrible.

And a flaw still isn't a fact, a flaw for a fucking TV show is something that you have to personally find negative, as in an opinion, and just because in your opinion it's heavily flawed does not mean others see it as flawed. You can explain WHY you don't like it, but you can't undeniably prove that something MUST be disliked, especially when it comes to something as subjective as fictional entertainment, so it's not a fact. Maybe the show is flawed, but you've proven to me that you're such a blind hater clinging so hard to the fucking nostalgia that nothing can please you and you refuse to see anything positive after already deciding your opinion.

Rant over. Sorry, but that really pissed me off, and I really needed to vent that.

edited 24th Jun '13 11:07:48 AM by StarOutlaw

So... theories on what would have happened had the series continued?

Only one I can say for certain is they would have found the last stone with the shark people. I think the last stone has power over fire and ice.

Huh. Any particular reason why? Because so far there's the spirit stone, the power stone, and the tech stone, if I'm not mistaken.

It's mainly because of the blue flame surrounding the stone. It also kind of looks like an ice crystal with a hot core. I think fire and ice magic powers would go well with the others stones. One stone is science and technology, one is spirituality, and one is raw, destructive power.

In a way, I think the stones, if they are supposed to give ultimate power, represent destruction (war), preservation (spirit), creation (tech), and transformation (blue stone). The blue stone having power over fire and ice can relate to both a physical transformation, like freezing, and a chemical transformation, like burning. I was inspired by the main Hindu gods, the Trimurti, Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, who are the creator, maintainer, and destroyer. Another theory I have is that the four stones are a sort of antithesis to the four Ancient Spirits of Evil.

The blue stone I think will be like elemental magic, and might be called the Mana Stone. Also, if the sharks are the ones who have it, I think it would work to have them be the society that uses a lot of magic, kind of like Atlantis in the DC Universe, especially if technology can't work the same way underwater. This is all just one big hunch though.

edited 25th Jun '13 6:40:06 AM by StarOutlaw

Also another sentiment from a poster I agree with

I'll put it this way just it doesn't seem I like I'm dogging the series for pure pleasure:

"I'm mad at them for how hard they failed. Not that I'm doing it to troll."

Hell, I doubt the introduction of Mumm-rana wouldn't have been done well. It's also upsetting that the amazon chicks ain't shown.

Probably a time constraint. Creators can't shove everything into one season, because then no plot would get good attention. If Bengali had been introduced, I bet they could have explored more of Tigra.

Hmmm, fair enough. But I feel like the spirit stone covers magic in a way. Wait... they all cover a different type of knowledge. Power is the knowledge to destroy, spirit is the knowledge of oneself, tech is the knowledge of science/tech/innovation... perhaps the fourth could be the Life Stone, or the knowledge to restore/rebuild? I say that because the spirit and tech stone seem to oppose each other, and Life or Restoration would be a good opposition to power.

Also, I have an elaborate heacanon that everything from Mumm-Ra's ship (the tech and animals) came from humans at one point, and eventually they would have encountered high-tech equipped humans whose last knowledge of Animals is of them betraying humanity.

You may not be too far off. The art director Dan Norton has hinted that the animals may the the result of genetic engineering, that the Cats are actually human-feline hybrids of some sort while the other animals are just highly evolved. Same thing about the humans, they're probably out there in space, and when they would probably have been introduced along with the Silverhawks. Norton is supposed to reveal what season 2 would be like at some point, but he hasn't said when or where.

Wait, just Cats are the result of human experimentation? I figured all Animals/not-native-to-Third-Earth was. Ah, I cannot wait until they reveal everything, then. Too bad it couldn't be shown in a second season proper.

They probably were engineered for space exploration/inhabitation. It would be kind of interesting to see the Cats' reactions to being descended from science experiments.

Well, I expect our heroes will take it better than most Thundercats; those jerks would just say it was heresy or something.

Then again, they were pretty happy with Lion-O showing up to free them. And that also brings up the question of how the other Animals would think about it. I have a feeling the Birds would go "well of course we were made perfectly" and the Elephants wouldn't care.

Speaking of the Birds, I wish we could have seen more of Vultureman. I liked that slimy ol' buzzard.

If the WMG that humans were the precursors turns out to be true I wonder if the show runners were planning on adding one into the cast at some point.

Well, I heard that there were Amazons in the original series, so maybe that could be worked in?

Or it could be that there's a scout ship of humans that came to Third Earth looking for the lost stone(s) or just generally exploring, they get separated and one of them ends up with the Thundercats.

There was a human peacekeeping agent that followed three criminals to Third Earth this one time.

To whoever said so, i understand what your saying about the series finale showing that Lion-o's goal of uniting the animals is off to a good start. But the fact of the matter is, in that very same episode, we were shown a possible love interest for Lion-O turned into a villain. By the end of the episode, we, the fans, are mainly left wondering what will become of Pumyra, especially since she was a good guy in the original series. Also, i have to say, this whole "the animals that Lion-O helped came to his aide" thing, while good, seemed like it would be better suited for the battle over the last stone.

@Windona

Too much emphasis is placed on the silly rivalry of Lion-O and Tygra. Moreover, they shouldn't have shown Lynx-O if all they're going to do is use him as a cameo. At least show us that it's to mock audiences about plots they're in the dark about,or seriously put effort in showing him. Don't put him in at all if that's all he's going to amount to. He had a boss role in the original and in the third to last season when Mumm-Ra went colossal.

What the old Thundercats has going for it that puts it over the new one is that it receives plenty and plenty of effing coverage from different shows in media.

Moreover, too many of the same people are watching this show and can hardly say it's all that.

P.S.

The Ancient Spirits of Evil also making an appearance when there's an episode that focuses on Tygra is fucking awful. That's like their only appearance of a season and it's ridiculous. Hell they did far better in the original when they appeared and it wasn't when they were cursing a blatantly obnoxious douche like Tygra.

edited 14th Jul '13 10:52:24 AM by Couchpotato20

You do realize that the old Thundercats is nearly 30 years old right? Of course it's received plenty of fucking coverage by this point compared to the new one's two years. And I'm still seeing people just discovering the reboot on tumblr. Besides, amount of exposure doesn't equal quality, and most people who know of the old Thundercats probably only know about it from parodies, and if they did see it they probably haven't seen it since they were kids and don't remember much about it. All the old show has going for it by this point is nostalgia thanks to a really good intro.

I liked that the A So E weren't overused, and I liked their introduction, and in case you hadn't noticed, they do appear in another episode commanding Mumm-Ra, so they're still his bosses. I like that the show kept them more mysterious and I believe that more would have been revealed about them in a second season

And seriously, only you have a problem with Lynx-O's cameo.

edited 15th Jul '13 11:16:17 PM by StarOutlaw

I have no clue who Lynx-O is. I never watched the original series. But didn't the original series last for years and multiple seasons? Unless Lynx-O and everything was covered in the first season of the original series, you can't really compare the importance the two had.

The rivalry wasn't the plot of every episode. There were plots about Pumyra, the twins, and Panthro/Grune's relationship.

Also, the Ancient Spirits of Evil appearing in a Tygra episode was to show a) why Tigers aren't more common and b) the power/personality of the spirits.

@Star Outlaw

I'm the only one who has a problem with Lynx-O's cameo? Yeah, no real Thundercats fans also have a problem with his cameo.

Also who CARES if the old one is 30 years old (also you're off by 2 years-it's 28 years old)?

Shit, Swatkats is 10 years old and yet we have threads on it. Johnny Quest original series was done in 1964 and it's still remembered fondly (has the parody series Venture Bros).

If the Thundercats 2011 show is going to misuse the colorful number of casts with this animal kingdom only cast of characters than they shouldn't have done it period. Hell I rather watch Robot chicken's parody of them than this.

Also the Ancient Spirits of Evil weren't "overused" they were used wisely. And that's the terminology which describes their assistance to Mumm-ra. They only appeared like every once 10-20(?) eps since they're annoyed by Mumm-ra's inability to switch things up in his war against the Thundercats.

So what if they commanded Mumm-ra in one episode they didn't do anything except bark orders and didn't provide info on how he should concoct another plan on how to defeat the Thundercats. they did and he played it out magnificently (Excalibur, etc).

Them showing up in a single episode? They aren't some sneaky mob bosses of Detective Conan's Black Organization boss.

The original series Thundercats Ancient Spirits of Evil are more powerful,more ruthless and show why they shouldn't be failed.

@Windona

Shames on you bro. Lynx-O was the second to most prominent character next to the original Thundercats. I mean he premiered in the second freaking season bro.

A) The tigers only made like a single episode appearance. I don't care about them. I cared more about Avatar The last Airbender's Freedom fighters not appearing in season 3 day of the black sun than I did the tigers.

B)The Ancient Spirits of Evil had more important appearances in the original than they did in the 2011. They spoke to Mumm-ra (gave him advice), one of the statues of them fought Hachiman. They weren't just mentioned in the asininely voiced chant to invoke his ever-living form. Also the Ancient Spirits of Evil helped him overcome his original weakness.

He didn't do anything as stupid as just become some lame dinosaur so avoid being burnt by the sun.