Paradox Games

question before I pick it up: How good IS CK 2 without any DLC? Not in a position to buy mass dlc ATM.

On a similar note, what is considered the "essential" DLC that I should get?

> How good IS CK 2 without any DLC?

It's playable and fun even without the DLC,least in my experience

Actually yeah, I'm wondering the same thing.

Is there anything I really need to get?

If you afford it I heartly recommend The Old Gods DLC,along with Reapers Due

I'd also very strongly recommend Conclave. It got a bad rap for some poorly-received changes in the patch, as well as for changing existing, familiar systems in a way that doesn't strictly make the player more powerful.

I strongly recommend against Charlemagne - its start is too early for the mechanics, its start is blob city, the custom kingdom/empire feature is buggy WRT saves, and the Chronicle is boring and pointless. I got the DLC on sale and it's still the only one I feel like I paid too much for.

Oh god Conclave,for like a year I didn't touch it because it sounded too complex and boring but now I don't play without it

Seconded.

Personally, I don't think you could go wrong with Reaper's Due and Way of Life, which add a lot of content no matter what you play. Granted, you might want to disable the AI's ability to Seduce...

Rajas of India, Sword of Islam, Sons of Abraham, Horse Lords and the Republic (especially those last two) can wait for the most part, until you get the urge to play what they unlock.

Jade Dragon is of minimal value unless you are playing in the East (which for the most part means Horselords, or Sword of Islam, or Rajas of India).

Monks and Mystics...some swear by it but it really lacks content unless you want literal dark wizard cults in your game.

Legacy of Rome unlocks a very useful feature, and is less pricey than some of the others.

edited 5th Apr '18 5:20:29 PM by Rationalinsanity

I have 'em all. They're fine, as long as I don't let RN Jesus take the wheel in Ironman.

If you're going Ironman, I say get any DLC that expands the playable roster. Charlemagne is a bit tricksy but it's not terrible. If you get the right roll of dice you can see the Karling ball implode on itself.

ETA: Legacy of Rome unlocks retinues, which in game terms are permanent standing armies that only cost money when they're replenishing their numbers. Considering levies need to be disbanded between wars to start new ones, plus cost money all the time they're raised, a serious retinue is a must-have for anyone looking to secure a big realm.

edited 5th Apr '18 5:28:48 PM by Journeyman

Legacy of Rome also adds factions, which are often the bane of my existence.

Yeah, the entire rebellion system is based around factions, so you might want to grab that.

Factions are a patch feature, reducing LOR to "nice, but..."

@Rational Insanity: Sons of Abraham gets special note because any DLC-less games will be in the Christian sector, so it's not quite the same as the other expansion DLC.

So here's my list:

• Absolute Minimum: The Old Gods (revolts that actually matter - pagans and 869 are also nice), Conclave (this enables the political system), The Reaper's Due (disease, prosperity, expanding holdings).
• Very Nice: Sons of Abraham (more complete mechanics for Catholics and Muslims, plus Jews - and your first game will probably be Catholic), Way of Life (a lot of roleplaying and character customization bonii), Jade Dragon (because Paradox are money-grubbing bundlers and Rally Points are a DLC feature. Also, China stuff and CBs).
• Expansion: Sword of Islam, The Republic, Rajas of India, Horse Lords. You get these when you have a hankering to play one of these areas.
• Luxury: Legacy of Rome (retinues and Byzantine stuff), Charlemagne (the period is generally horridly unbalanced, but 769 India is kinda nice and sometimes you get an imploded Karlingblob, plus custom empires), Monks and Mystics (unfortunately, the most developed society is also the dumbest one, but societies are still interesting - but for the love of God turn off secret religious cults).
• Bargain Bin: Sunset Invasion (wtf).

edited 5th Apr '18 8:43:50 PM by Ramidel

That pretty well sums up my feelings, but I am not as down on Charlemagne as most others. I rather like having the extra game length and the blob can make an interesting challenge to deal with.

I play each of the three early dates depending on what I want. 769 gives a nice long game and an interesting India, 869 has wild viking all over the place, 1066 has conflicts that can get interesting and is good for Norse revivals under Erik the Heathen and descendants.

I'm sorry, why would you not want to play a version of Crusader Kings where the Pope is a debauched murderous Satanist?

Main reason I still play the earlier start dates is that I like playing as the Umayyads or Uyghurs - I also still want to grab the achievement for playing a long campaign from the earliest start to the end.

But the accumulative border gore is a bloody nightmare.

Personally, I found the devil worshippers pretty boring, though I do keep them activated anyway.

I kinda grew accustomed to hearing the sound of burning flesh at least once every 10-30 minutes in my (Catholic) North Sea Empire game - though to be fair, some of these might have just been Waldensians or Lollards.

Ditto. Satanists are not especially interesting after the first couple of times you play them, but keeping them around gives your chaplain something to do.

I consider the new C Bs to be a negative. They do little more than creating more blobs.

Also, I prefer leaving demonic cults to the Warhammer and Elder Scrolls conversions.

edited 6th Apr '18 4:46:40 AM by Rationalinsanity

Hey, it's another DLC that caused a plague to spread in East Francia and we just end up with a big Francia because my character inherited it from his brother...LOL

edited 6th Apr '18 6:14:50 AM by entropy13

A lot of times, if I'm not taking control of a high level Duke in Charlemagne's domain to prop him up, that Saxon rebellion spells the end for any serious stability in his realm. Assuming he even manages to conquer them in the first place. In my current Poland run I don't think Saxony ever fell. They're being a contender in my neck of the woods while I build the Wendish Empire.

Doing Modern Day 4 and holy crap these last four Da'esh provinces just won't fall despite the superior might of Iranian armor and a complete lack of industry or reinforcements.

Still, at home, I've taken power from the Clergy and Revolutionary Guard and gave it to the Labor Unions and the Bazaar. Despite their objections, I handily won reelection.

I also took a break from bashing my head against Da'esh to guarantee Kurdistan and annex Iraq when they attacked the Kurds. Planning on also knocking out Afghanistan, but I really want to beat Da'esh first.

Modern Day 4?

Sounds fun.

Is the Modern Day 4 mod worth it? I play Millennium Dawn for its dumb sandbox-ishness, that sounds much more deep and interesting.

edited 7th Apr '18 3:36:05 PM by Fourthspartan56

Modern Day 4 is less insane than Millennium Dawn (though its several flavors of Da'esh and Al-Qaeda make plenty of war in the Middle East (though Turkey doesn't seem interested in its IRL hobby of committing war crimes against Kurds), but its ideology system attempts to take the idea that ideology is more about realpolitik and who you might form an alliance with entirely too far and eschews actual ideology and its internal factions, while welcome, don't really fully make up for it.

Hmm, sounds flawed but still interesting. I'll look into downloading it.

To be fair, "flawed but interesting" describes a most HOI 4 total conversions and at least MD 4 has more actual conflict than Millennium Dawn