Game of Thrones [Potential Book Spoilers]

Yeah, I don't mean Jumped the Shark in the regular way, since there's still a lot of people invested in the series. Fuck, I'm one of them, as much as I'm disliking most of what's happening this season. I meant it regarding the ever-falling quality of the last seasons writing.

I mean, sometimes even the dialogue is stupid. "I thought you were still rowing", I mean, what the fuck, does Davos know he's in a TV show? Because that really fucked with my suspension of disbelief. Don't even get me started on the teleportation, Cersei and Euron going full hax and putting in cheat codes, and worst of all, how now no action has any consequence.

If this were actually written by GRRM, the Dream Team would be fucking dead. Hell, fuck that, if this were written by GRRM, Jon wouldn't be stupid enough to go north of the Wall himself to get a damn wight in the first place.

Although, let's be honest. I don't think that D&D are bad at writing this shit. I blame it on the stupid-ass decision of leaving only three seasons left after a LOT of plot threads were still hanging and the writers couldn't rely on the books anymore. If Season 3&4 taught us anything, is that you really need time to flesh out the content of a series like SOIAF.

I mean, yeah, it's still pretty much way better than most TV content nowadays, but that's not saying a lot.

edited 23rd Aug '17 12:39:17 AM by ExplosiveLion

The Tormund thing is especially dumb since one of the redshirts also gets swarmed later, and yet he gets gruesomely torn apart within seconds. Doing sloppy crap like that just makes it incredibly obvious that the only reason why Tormund didn't suffer the same fate is because he wasn't designated to die here by the writers. And it'd have been REALLY easy to fix, just don't have him get swarmed like that (or don't have the redshirt, have him die in some other way).

As for the teleportation, that's also easy to fix. Give Dany a reason to be at Eastwatch already, or have them carrying Ravens with them so that Gendry doesn't have to run for miles in the cold and snow just to get to them, or work Bran's powers into it, etc. Again really easy to fix.

And if you want to play that whole "TNK was luring Dany into a trap," card, fine. But make that more clear to the audience.

That's what's so frustrating, a lot of these issues would have been really easy to avoid/fix with just a bit more effort.

That's the thing though. They don't care to put in the effort. That's basically the directors response to the criticism, popularity means they don't have to care.

"I think we were straining plausibility a little bit, but I hope the story's momentum carries over some of that stuff,"

"If the show was struggling, I'd be worried about those concerns, but the show seems to be doing pretty well so it's okay to have people with those concerns."

Oh I know that. And them admitting their own laziness is rather pitiful imo.

I say that seasons 6 and 7 are good for TV, but not good for Game Of Thrones.

Season 5 was genuinely bad, though. Like, not "bad for this series" but "genuinely unenjoyable TV."

Case in point Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.

Ugh, don't remind me of that. That was garbage. And when people ask "well did what they did with Sansa after that make you more ok with it," my answer is "NO, not in the slightest."

Especially since I'd argue that most of Season 6 makes her look worse because she FAILS most of the time there.

Also it was the beginning of the dumpster fire that was the Dorne plotline.

So, have we all heard this theory yet?

There's other stuff before it if your interested (Cleganebowl is finally coming for instance).

Oh dear, not this theory again. Ever since The Door people are thinking Bran is behind everything. It's almost as annoying as everyone being Syrio Forel in disguise. -_-

Don't forget about the secret Targaryens,they are everywhere

Don't remind me.

...but there are secret Targaryens everywhere in the books aren't there?

edited 23rd Aug '17 4:02:44 PM by HandsomeRob

No, there aren't. There's one character who we know to be secretly Targaryen now and another one people in the books claim to be one.

If you believe the fandom, there's a secret Targaryen at every corner.

edited 23rd Aug '17 4:05:04 PM by DrunkenNordmann

Maester Amon was very a long time a secret Targ,you've also got Young Griff too

Erm, he wasn't a secret Targaryen?

There's Maester Aemon, Aegon, Brown Ben Plumm, Jon Snow, maybe Tyrion, Brynden Rivers aka the Three Eyed Raven and probably Varys.

So there's 7 at max.

He was at the wall so long he basically became one

Everyone who actually mattered in the hierarchy probably knew. It isn't so much "secret Targaryen" as in "Targaryen nobody actually gave a shit about".

Aegon might not be a Targaryen at all, Benn Plumm is as much a Targaryen as the Baratheons, what with (allegedly) having a Targaryen ancestor.

Brynden Rivers isn't as much as secret as he's officially dead - and doesn't seem that alive in the first place - and I have no idea why people think Varys would be one.

Also: Tyrion being a secret Targaryen is mostly a crackpot theory people had because they want him to ride one of the dragons - not gonna happen in the series now, is it? Not to mention that it would take away from the whole "like father, like son" thing Tyrion and Tywin had going on if he was actually someone else's son.

edited 23rd Aug '17 5:00:15 PM by DrunkenNordmann

Got it, I'd blame hindsight not making it feel so much of a revelation.

Its not really allegedly though. Its more a question if his non-Targ ancestor was really the father IIRC.

Not the right Targaryen but he's likely some sort of Targaryen even if he is only a Blackfyre.

Brown Ben Plumm has at least one Targaryen ancestor in the form of Aegon III's daughter and Tyrion alleges that he's not a real Plumm at all in the sense that Ossifer Plumm never impregnated his Targaryen princess before he made it to the grave but that it was Aegon IV that got her pregnant, she just passed his son off as his.

That's why the dragons like Brown Ben Plumm because he's essentially a Targaryen in the agnatic sense. He shares the same Y Chromosome at least as the rest of the Targaryens anyway.

Officially but he still counts.

Well there are implications. Like his official story is that he's from Lys where most people have purple eyes and white-blonde hair. And we know he shaves his head so we never see his hair color but it's safe to say that he has a Targaryen coloring.

Then there's King Maegor saying that none but the blood of the dragon shall know the secrets of the Red Keep which Varys knows.

And his intro has him being compared to an egg which is what Aegon V's nickname is and who Varys seems to be trying to recreate with his Aegon.

I mean if "Aegon" is his nephew, it would make sense.

Not really. GRRM is certainly playing with the idea of making Tyrion a Targaryen if he's not already committed to it. Like there's his weird coloring. Black and green eye, black and white-blonde hair. Then there's the attraction Aerys had to Joanna Lannister, the rumors that she gave his virginity to him and that she was his mistress, Aerys and Joanna being at the right place to conceive Tyrion etc.

Just like how Jon not actually being Ned's son takes away from the "like father, like son" dynamic?

Again, Plumm is only a Targaryen if you consider every single character whose ancestors boinked a Targaryen at one point a Targaryen (i.e. the Baratheons, the Martells, the descendents of whatever commoner woman managed to get bedded by one).

Also, the reason why Lys (and Volantis) have a not small number of people who look Valyrianish is simple: Both of these are former Valyrian colonies, with the elites of Volantis (the Old Blood) being explicitly descendents of Old Valyria.

The whole "white hair, purple eyes" thing is a Valyrian thing, not just a Targaryen thing.

edited 23rd Aug '17 6:21:24 PM by DrunkenNordmann

If Aegon IV had recognized Viserys Plumm as his son and not passed him off as Ossifer's son then Brown Ben Plumm would be Brown Ben Targaryen right now. If Joffrey's children married Arryns and then his grandchildren married Tullys. Would his grandchildren still be Lannisters?

And the dragons actually respond well to Brown Ben Plumm and like him. Tyrion even pieces together they like him because of his blood. Quentyn had Targaryen ancestors and didn't get that so I assume it's because Brown Ben Plumm is an agnatic descendant.

Not necessarily. It just means that Jon's core of his being was another lie Ned added in. Jon isn't who he thinks he is.

I know but I'm just using that to make a safe assumption that he has Targaryen coloring. Allegedly, the mother who we're supposed to think is Aegon's mother is also from Lys.

This was interesting. Cool interview by GRRM.

Anyone have any idea what he means by this? I've never read this book and I'm curious to know what he means.