Game of Thrones [Potential Book Spoilers]

@Phoenix I mean Sophie says something traumatic happens to her. If the RW was a 10, she said it was a 6. Theon's actor mentions having to witness Ramsay doing something awful to an important character.

From Alfie's interview:

Sophie also mentions that the crew members were crying in her scene. That seems pretty immense.

Here's my guess: We're going to see Ramsay rape/mutilate ( or do both) Sansa off-screen but Theon will have to watch. And we'll see how awful that is through Theon's reactions without having to directly look at it.

edited 21st Apr '15 6:38:08 PM by MadSkillz

Only problem with that idea is we're gonna have to see Salsa sooner or later after Ramsay's done.

I love how that sounds from a directing and acting standpoint. I'm excited. And afraid.

Can someone remind me again how giving Sansa to Ramsay benefits Littlefinger?

He plans to help Stannis retake the North after having Sansa marry Ramsay, making her the natural heir to the North once the Boltons are dealt with. Which obviously benefits him since he manipulates her.

Isn't she considered the natural heir to the north anyway with Bran and Rickon missing? What part of this plan requires giving Sansa to the Boltons?

Trimming the cast to exclude the Manderlys and other northern lords require Sansa to marry Ramsay.

For the rest of the series Sansa will be known as Reekette

It's my understanding that the North and most of Westeros practices male primogeniture, as opposed to Dorne which practices absolute primogeniture. So Sansa couldn't inherit in her own right. But as in the book, the King can legitimize bastards and grant lordships to whomever he wants. Having Ramsay marry Sansa can quell unrest among the minor houses since there is still a Stark in Winterfell, even if she isn't a man.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Lannisters give Winterfell to the Boltons?

Women can inherit if there aren't any men ahead of them in the line. A younger brother inherits before an older sister, but a daughter will still inherit before her father's younger sibling. At least, that's the law in theory, though in practise a female claimant is often ignored in favour of who has the biggest army.

The Lannisters did make the Boltons heads of the North, and Ramsay the lord of Winterfell. Sansa's considered a traitor and a conspirator in Joffrey's murder by the Lannisters, making her claim moot in their eyes. In the eyes of anti-Lannister factions who presume Bran and Rickon to be dead, she's still the best claimant to Winterfell, which is the whole reason for why the Lannisters married her to Tyrion — to stake their claim on the north.

Again, I'm not understanding Baelish's motives here. He's giving Sansa to the Boltons so he can control the north through her after Stannis deals with Roose and Ramsay? Um... why? Stannis considers the Boltons to be traitors. Marrying Sansa to a Bolton isn't going to change anything in Stannis's eyes — he'd recognise her as the heir to Winterfell anyway due to all of her brothers being presumed dead. So what's possessing Littlefinger to send his object of lust into the hands of a psychopath who's likely to rape, abuse and potentially kill her, when he could gain the same result by helping Stannis win first, and then handing Sansa over to him as the rightful heir to Winterfell?

And all the while, isn't he seriously risking being compromised? I mean, he's revealing to the Lannister-alligned Boltons that he's been harboring Sansa, a presumed conspirator to regicide. He's not at all worried that this insanely ill-advised scheme will make him complicit in Joffrey's murder?

The best guess I have is that it is something the Boltoons need to truly control the North, but it will put them at odds with the Lannisters weakening both.

But again, how is Baelish getting away with this? If Sansa just turns up with the Boltons the Lannisters will question how she got there. If they find out, which I imagine they must, that Littlefinger procured her, he's screwed.

edited 22nd Apr '15 11:01:46 AM by DrDougsh

It helps that the Lannister Dynasty has more or less fizzled out. Tywin is dead, Tyrion is in exile, Jamie is out of picture trying to get his daugter back from Dorne, and Kevan has taken his ball and gone home to Casterly Rock.

The only Lannister remaining is Cersei who's walking a tight rope trying to maintain power she's no longer entitled to.

edited 22nd Apr '15 11:19:49 AM by Lionheart0

Even assuming no one is going to care at all that the fugitive presumed murderer of the previous king just turned up in the north and is marrying the local lord, it's still remarkably sloppy of Littlefinger. I mean, unless every single person around him is taking stupid pills, now there'll be a large group of people who'll easily be able to deduce that Littlefinger was complicit in Joffrey's murder. The Vale lords. The Boltons. The Lannisters. The Tyrells. Stannis, who'll likely tell everyone. How does Baelish expect to continue conducting his schemes when everyone will know the things he's done?

He's been so successful until now that he just assumes everyone else is stupid.

Didn't the Tyrells conspire with Little Finger?

Yeah, they did, but that's still contributing to an uncomfortably large group of people who should be aware of Littlefinger's activities. Not good news for a guy whose largest asset is being perceived as harmless.

Are we sure that Littlefinger is bringing Sansa to the Boltons? Or is that just speculation? It would make much more sense for her to go to the Tyrells, wouldn't it?

Does this mean Sansa killing Ramsay might be a thing?

It's not speculation.

Maybe newly dark Sansa will be behind those pies...

If this boneheaded plan actually works, show Littlefinger is officially a Villain Sue. I mean, seriously. This plan makes... no... sense.

Yeah honestly that was my major problem with these new developments. Also, so much has been abbreviated or cut out it all just feels half-formed and insubstantial to me now. I am fine with adaptations making changes but some of these changes are becoming nonsensical.

edited 22nd Apr '15 11:54:27 AM by Jonny0110

Littlefinger can justify harboring Sansa with his friendship for the late Cat, and claim to the anti-Lannisters that he only did so because the Lannisters were trying to pin Joffrey's murder on her while Tyrion plotted everything. Roose wouldn't be fooled anyway, but he doesn't care since it strengthens his grip on the North. The Tyrells wouldn't be fooled either, but they were complicit. Stannis could be fooled, or not, but LF just placed a Stark in Winterfell after the stubborn Jon refused to be legitimized, I think that if his principles allow him to have a bastard legitimized, they would allow him to make a girl the true heir to the North. So no matter what, he will not do anything to Sansa.

As for Littlefinger, I fail to see how knowing that he betrayed the Lannisters can make Stannis dislike him even more (although knowing him, he could say "yeah, I understand you, but you are a Kingslayer anyway, so I'll cur your hand for that, then we can be friends").

I really think LF is in a Xanatos Gambit here. If the Boltons win, he has his puppet in Winterfell, and a foot in three of the seven kingdoms. If Stannis wins, then he can claim he helped defeat the Lannisters (which is true) and tricked the Boltons to have Sansa in a position of power (which is also true). The one thing he can actually worry about is Stannis' somewhat unpredictable sense of honor.

edited 22nd Apr '15 11:58:29 AM by Julep

I'm curious how many and which of the Sand Snakes are going to go the way of Aery's Oakheart.