Rebuild of Evangelion

We had a long ass debate about that several score pages back. I'll just say that I stand on the side that likes this interpretation of Asuka's character.

And I think you're missing the whole point of the Rebuild film series, that these aren't the same themes as NGE or rather they're more upbeat interpretations of them. Asuka pilots the Unit 03 so she can make Shinji happy, and maybe that makes her too traditionally tsundere for a lot of people but to me it shows she's someone who really does care how others feel and that she is a decent person at heart. I think Ro E is all about showing more genuine hope that people can overcome their deficits and be good people.

edited 24th Apr '12 6:42:26 PM by Scherzo09

She does this to make Shinji happy, yes, but it comes across as her giving up to do this. It's not making Shinji happy, it's her doing this by giving up. Running away. This is used as an excuse so she won't admit being nice, but this suggests to me she really believes she fucked over any chance for any relationship with Shinji, romantic or not. She wouldn't have tried to justify it as her not really liking other people, otherwise. Rei and Shinji get to be happy together... while she sits on the side with no friends?

Edit: Her interaction with Misato sort of punches a hole in my point, though.

edited 24th Apr '12 7:22:51 PM by SilentColossus

I think you're entirely misreading Asuka here; she recognized Shinji has a thing for Rei and vice versa so she had it setup so they could be together. How is that "running away"?

Hmmm...

Talking about the scene, I see what you mean. Really. I think I over-thought it a bit, as I had liked the scene better when I first saw it.

edited 24th Apr '12 7:36:25 PM by SilentColossus

The argument from before was mainly about how the person thought the reason Asuka piloted Unit-03 was just a contrived reason to get her out of the picture so Mari could steal the spotlight in the final battle. In my opinion though having it be Asuka and having Shinji know she's piloting it makes the Badriel fight work a lot better than it did in the series.

edited 24th Apr '12 8:05:45 PM by Scherzo09

Oh, I'm cool with the Unit 03 thing. I'm very interested in where it takes Asuka. I really do hope the next two films are dark, with 2.22 being the part of the series where everything gets more optimistic like it did in the series. I don't want to see these characters get better until they're in a really deep pit. Fuck Lighter and Softer.

...But that's the whole point of Ro E; Anno has regained his faith in humanity, so while shit will still keep getting real-er, people are still rising up to the challenge instead of cracking and retreating to a solipsistic world where nothing can harm them/

And they can do that at the end. Having them always rise up will lose meaning after a while.

Well unless Shinji's character somehow gets Reset Button 'd I do not think he will sink to the depths of the final 1/3rd of the series or Eo E; that's part of the reason why I think he'll be on a bus for most of 3.0.

Overall, the series permeates with optimism for the future as opposed to the feeling of curling up and waiting for the end the original series had.

Anno and his dragons were very nervous about other characters stealing the spotlight from Shinji. So they cut out a lot of scenes for other characters. 3.0 will probably do the same.

Also: Shinji almost ended the world, and is currently hiding inside his mother with a clone of his mother. IMO, he regressed the same way Asuka did when she fought the JSDDF and the Eva Series.

He didn't learn a damn thing, other than "fuck the world! Fuck anyone who isn't Rei."

edited 24th Apr '12 8:20:38 PM by SilentColossus

He learned what mattered to him in a world bereft of meaning to him. That's noble to me. He's living for a purpose that matters to him.

And while I do think they should show more of the other characters in 3.0, I like how they've trimmed it a bit so far. But I definitely think characters like Misato, Asuka, Mari, Kaji, and the other NERV staffers will be the focus of 3.0.

How did Asuka 'regress'? She realized she had the resolve to fight. It just.... proved not to be enough.

edited 24th Apr '12 8:21:44 PM by Scherzo09

Did he even realize he was ending the world?

Hiding? I was under the impression they were stuck in there.

I think its implied he could hear Ritsuko, since he says "I don't care what happens to me or this world, I want to save Rei," or something to that effect.

But yeah, he's stuck in their due to the lance I think. This Shinji doesn't seem to have as many problems facing the world.

edited 24th Apr '12 8:24:26 PM by Scherzo09

It's selfish and cowardly. At least he doesn't seem to know that he would end the world, despite the fact that he claims he doesn't care about it. In order to show how selfish it was, I hope Kensuke and Toji died in that explosion.

Edit: The music that plays during the scene is even called "False Regeneration", or something along those lines. Did you not notice the childish mannerisms, the berserking, vicious fighting style, and the dependence on mama? Talking about Asuka in End for this one.

edited 26th Apr '12 8:52:55 PM by SilentColossus

Why? How is that true? Why should he let the world impose its values on him? He himself says he doesn't care if he's killed in the act of trying to rescue Rei. This is very much an Existentialist statement here.

So what? Its because Shinji is saying 'Fuck NERV's and The Angels' plans, I'm making my own destiny.'

edited 24th Apr '12 8:27:58 PM by Scherzo09

She only said he wouldn't be able to come back. She said nothing about the world, so I figured that was Shinji just trying to show how committed he was to rescuing Rei. Misato was even encouraging him the entire time.

edited 24th Apr '12 8:27:36 PM by Parable

Because he is retreating from reality. In reality, people like his father hurt his friends (oh, he just almost killed that friend to save Rei).

Shinji knows that. That's why he was about to leave on the train. I took that action as Shinji finally manning up and taking his life into his own hands.

No he is not. How the fuck is he retreating from reality by using his power to change it?

You seem to be implying that the grownup thing is to meekly lie down and let the world impose itself upon you as you wait for the inevitable end, and to me that's depressing as all hell.

Yeah, in general I liked the train scenes a lot more in Ro E. They were much more direct and to the point.

edited 24th Apr '12 8:32:06 PM by Scherzo09

He knows she is alive, as he comments that Gendo "tried" to make him murder Asuka. I was talking about how he almost killed Asuka, this time 100% his fault, when he caused Third Impact. "I don't care about the world" = "I don't care about my non-Rei friends."

People will say a lot of things in extreme situations.

So what? Rei just mattered more to him.

edited 24th Apr '12 8:35:44 PM by Scherzo09

I don't think you should let the world impose itself on you. Fuck that. My point was is that Shinji almost ended the world to save Rei, and the proof that he doesn't care about the outside world is that he currently shows no concern about going back to it. All he needs is to be with Rei, apparently. Really, though, we need to see how he acts in whatever most likely LCL state he currently is in. If he shows fear in leaving, then it would be him rejecting reality.

It's important to note that Shinji has even more of an Oedipal thing for Rei in Rebuild. The fact Rei is a clone of Yui, and the films go out of their way to show that Shinji is drawn to her because of how much she reminds him of Yui. The fact that he is retreating from reality to be with Rei. That is, his mother.

I hope I'm not making anybody angry here. I like debates like this.

edited 24th Apr '12 8:51:02 PM by SilentColossus

I think most of that telegraphing is for the convenience of the viewer, I dunno if Shinji is anymore aware.

I can meet you halfway and say that it is inconsiderate of the other people that matter to him, but I don't feel like it reflects on Emotional immaturity.

The fact that Rei is a clone of Yui, and the fact that Eva Unit 01 has Yui's soul, and the fact that Shinji is hiding in there (with Rei) leads me to believe these are red flags about this being a bad thing.

edited 24th Apr '12 8:57:12 PM by SilentColossus