Girl Genius

Zoing is an animal companion too, and perhaps the dingbots?

Jaegers seem more like people than animals to me, well other than that all people are animals.

Bang might be Gil's jaeger. She's got the temperament.

edited 13th Apr '13 4:36:42 PM by Lightningnettle

Attempting to google got me some Russian post cards, but I think they were Russian illustrations of the French version as since Perrault's tale is literary it got around without being changed. I can't find anything on a Russian version, but then the Russian language version of the Shrek movie keeps getting in the way.

I didn't really mean the Jägers were literally animals, I meant they fit a specific trope. In fairytales dangerous beasts are often found in traps, and freeing them wins gratitude. The Jägers might not be animals, but they were getting that kind of treatment when Agatha found them. Although they were already Agatha's, so...yeah, it doesn't quite fit *g*

edited 13th Apr '13 4:38:37 PM by khil

Ah, like the mouse and the lion.

Yes, it always seems to pay to be polite and rescue people when in a fairytale.

Hmm. Then Castle Heterodyne might well be the ultimate animal companion, trapped and relatively helpless until Agatha and her helpers rescue it.

Although I think the Geisterdamen play with the same trope only to subvert it. They're also dangerous beings introduced in a situation where they're relatively helpless (and with a story reminiscent of the Jägers' search too) only to turn on Agatha as soon as they get free. More the Farmer and the Viper (and doesn't the novel have a version of that in it, with the Baron and some Snake Constructs?)

Yes it does, in one of the intros, a folktale about the Baron.

Yes, it's at the start of chapter 12 of the second novel. It's rather charming. (He gets both, one of them tries to bite him and the other didn't want to.)

Based of snippets of dialog in-story, and the prologue in the second Novelization, I think that the last act of the Storm King/Heterodyne Princess Opera involves her betraying him. Probably in a very extreme way, with important casualties on both sides. This likely lead to there-after hostile relationship with the Storm King line.

So yeah, I don't think it's good to be Storm King in Mechanicsburg without some major brownie-points going for you. As Phil said: "You don't mean the story of how he was brought down by the Heterodyne Girl, do you?! I could get in real trouble telling that story in this town!!"

Ok, I'm having a hard time finding a pure 'cat companion,' in Russian. Norwegian does get us into the Slavic, though. But you're right: we've got more in the way of horses, wolves, dogs, doves...

I could have sworn.... Huh. I'll have to look farther and see if I can find what i thought I remembered.

@Lightning Nettle, I'd be more inclined to think the Dingbots were parallels to all the little 'pocket dolls" that comfort and help their mistresses when they're orphaned.

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Russian/Slavic tales online:

Collection Title: Vasilisa the Beautiful

Collection Title: Folk Tales from the Russian

Collection Title: Sixty Folk-Tales from Excusively Slavonic Sources

Collection Title: Songs of the Russian People

Collection Title: Roumanian Fairy Tales and Legends

edited 13th Apr '13 6:20:22 PM by Hippogrif

Is Vasilisa the Beautiful the same as Vasilisa the Wise, or are those two different fairytales?

And who else thinks we might get to see Tweedle running away soon?

As near as I can tell at this point, "Vasilisa" is to Slavic fairy tales what "Jack" is to English-speaking language fairy tales. There's a gazillion. It's the all-purpose girl name, followed by "Elena," or "Yelena." There's also some "Marya"s. After that it gets cluttered with a name here, a name there.

There a number of adjectival phrases that go with it. Vasilisa the Good and Wise, Vasilisa the Beautiful, Vasilisa the Wise and Clever, Vasilisa the Brave.

For the boys, well...there are an awful lot of Ivans.

And, no, I actually don't think Tweedle will run. He's brave enough. Even with the field a mess, you don't drop down in the middle of a town Klaus has targeted if you're a coward. Nor do you ride out onto a battlefield that looks like defeat spelled out in simple letters with no armor and a bunch of antique clanks and no backup.

My sense is that Tweedle is brave, and, as Tarvek said, a good fighter. It remains to be seen if he's lovable, wise, or good.

edited 13th Apr '13 6:47:05 PM by Hippogrif

Well it is also a detail that the enchanted doll plays a nice set of roles not only as an adviser but as the muscle for the tasks at hand.

Or even passably intelligent.

Ooh, links. Thank you, Hippogrif.

Reading:

...Spark. ;)

(Nod) Yes. That's part of why I would put the dingbots in that category: the little pocket dolls are such amazing little work horses! Dang, they do hard labor for their girlikins!

Yes. But I think he's not "ordinary stupid," at this point.

It's been commented that Kaja's looking forward to him meeting Gil. I can't find the cite, but I do think that Gil and Tweedle look like they might be an interesting pairing in many ways.

You're welcome. And, yes; Spark. Between enchantment and really *practical* ideas about tasks and makings, you've got a very good setting for translation to sparky stories.

edited 13th Apr '13 6:56:01 PM by Hippogrif

Ah — there's at least one version where it's a cat who tells somebody how to get away from Baba Yaga's house, and gives them the comb that becomes a forest etc. Is that maybe what you were thinking about?

Good odds. The last time I went on a Slavic bender, ages ago (probably over two decades) it would have been Baba Yaga stories.

The dingbots are the enchanted dolls but Baba Yaga is a staple of the tales in many ways always as the bad guy but then again I only recall some of the tales I read.

Actually, I'm pretty sure she helps out sometimes, but I cannot immediately call an example to mind. She's never safe, exactly.

Hippogrif, I am still drawing a blank on this one — why have you got Klaus as Koschei the Deathless? I mean, old man, temporary captor, hard to kill, but... that's not altogether distinctive.

(...Did Baba Yaga help defeat him a few times?)

edited 13th Apr '13 8:01:02 PM by PK

He's a revived antagonist and pretty much THE mightiest "enchanter" whose survival is mysterious, whose capacity for surmounting challenges (like enchantments)almost certainly draws in some sense from the mysteries of his revived status. Seen from the POV of those whom he attacks he's a screaming, no-holds-barred murderous nightmare. He kept a troupe of captive princesses and princes held imprisoned in his palace. He's served by monsters. His "Beautiful Son" is probably going to be rescued by a young Tsarevitch allied with a Vasilisa/Firebird. He's quite possibly the amalgam of three sons — and we don't know where his "true" heart lies. Would you bet on Klaus having only one heart, or one brain? For sure? Without qualm or question?

Yes, I KNOW: we see good things about him, too. But this is a series that subverse, inverts, and plays merry hob with archetypal roles. Klaus is Koschei made almost adorable.

He's also, for what it's worth, an enchanted prince who needs rescue himself. He's pretty absolutely some variant of the Grey Wolf who helps Tsarevitch Ivan. And Agatha's not only a Vasilisa, she's also Baba Yaga herself, even if she did Drop her Baba Yaga Cart/Hut on Klaus' head.

He's also, inescapably, as much as an "evil enchanter" as a good one. It's *important* that we get to know him as a dangerous despot conqueror who kidnaps young women and tortures and mind-cores Heroes and leaves the shattered remains to stumble on as pitiful moron servants. It's really important that you can turn Klaus either way, and get a "valid" picture. Hero or villain, he works both ways.

edited 13th Apr '13 8:05:52 PM by Hippogrif

I was thinking earlier, I could see Klaus and Gil as the Grey Wolf and Ivan. Mostly because the Wolf winds up being all "I *said* to *fetch her* and *not do that*! Fine, I'm doing it myself!"

Yes.

I'm really trying to figure out to what degree elements of the stories are just drifted in and to what degree the elements are meaningful and important.

Okay, that sounds like mostly you have him as Koschei because that's the standard antagonist in the story-group in question, rather than because of traits that distinguish Koschei from any other fairytale villain, which is what was puzzling me.

I don't think he's likely to have multiple hearts or brains, actually, at least not that are actually tied to his own physiological function.

Gil is really bad at fetching the princess, isn't he? Although, to be fair, not exactly due to a failure to follow instructions.

I think there's also an element of fairytales as, not symbolic, but the reality of the past. Maxim calls Moxana a magic doll and Dimo calls Lucrezia a dybbuk. I don't think they're wrong, I think they're old fashioned. We've seen the Spark work with culinary science, we've seen it work with bell making. How much of the stuff in fairytales would really be impossible for Sparks? I bet a Spark who really understood swordsmithing could make a magic sword. In the end I'm not sure there's a difference between Magic and Science! and we might be seeing a fairytale world all grown up

edited 13th Apr '13 8:19:22 PM by khil

I could see a Spark making a coverlet full of bells that can be heard across nine kingdoms, too. :D

No. I think the critical things about Koschei are also critical elements of Klaus:

1. "Deathless." Klaus is not only revived, he's revived with mysteries. This is tricky, because GG is just far enough outside the "fairy tale" assumptions that true Undying is...tricky. We've got Albia, we've got Lucrezia, and we've got Klaus who just does not die, even when he should...and whose endurance and exceptional traits really are a mystery.

2. "Tyrant." Whatever else he is, Koschei is repeatedly the ruler of great lands.

3. "Enchanter/Dark Enchanter." Klaus is the strongest, most dangerous Spark of his generation...and depending on how you turn it he's "evil" for several reasonable values of evilness, in particular in terms of what he can and will do with his spark.

4. "Kidnapper." Broadly, the Hostages school, and any number of captive sparks given two basic choices: work for Klaus or be used by Klaus as lab rats. More narrowly, Agatha in her "innocent Vasilisa" princess role.

Those aren't trivial. It's not just "he's a powerful antagonist," but that he's got attributes that are appropriate to Koschei.

(Dry amusement) He's even got a hidden heart in a far more prosaic, sentimental way: his love for his son, for his old friends, perhaps for his wife. These are things he hides as deep as he can manage, to save them and to save himself.

(Edit) Oh, yeah. And served by monsters. Lots and lots of monsters. The right monster for the job. All the scary creatures the other enchanters created.... Served by "nice" monsters (Boris) and also served by moral monsters (Bang). He is a master of Monsters.

It's no small thing that Agatha in her Baba Yaga aspect is becoming Mistress of Monsters.

In spark-world, how different is a "sword" from a "really good death ray"?

(Bangs head on wall) OMG.

And of course it's important that Tarvek "Plays with dolls," and has Muses and created Anevka-bot to save his sister, and kept her by him even after she died.

Because that's *HIS* "Beautiful Vasilisa" role. The little girl in horrible circumstances with a family that's ready to eat him alive, and a "doll" in his pocket.

Lu's trying to become someone who can never die.

Klaus is determined to keep Gil alive — at any cost.

Tarvek's fought a desperate battle to keep Anevka alive, and seems determined to save everyone else he loves, too: keep them alive.

Agatha's determined that no one she loves will die.

And, of course, in real life, people die.

They do.

I'm...uneasy where this story, so full of people raging against the dying of the light, must end. Because I don't think the Fs believe in stories where no one dies for keeps.

edited 13th Apr '13 8:50:37 PM by Hippogrif