Girl Genius

Pre-post theatre presents: TPU Music Prof Tom Smith and his silent interpreter in a rousing version of:

page! Yay cake!

The sky's starting to look a bit sunset-y, don't you think?

edited 10th Apr '13 1:52:15 PM by Claudeng

Oh, I love this page.

And now we know *why* the Heterodynes are the Wild Men of Europa: they want their cake, and they want it NOW!

And that final frame? How many ways can I love that final frame? <3<3<3!

Odd. I get the comic from April 1st marked April 10th. A reverse April's Fool joke, perhaps? Fortunately, the GG wiki is up. Systems der Kestle doesn't control? That have to recognize The Heterodyne? This will be interesting . . . and so probably will the cake!

edited 10th Apr '13 2:02:18 PM by OlBear

Clear your cache, then try this◊.

I like the underlying recognition: being a ruler — including an Evil Despot (at least as both Tarvek and Klaus envisage it) is hard work. It's not all clanks and cake. I really continue to suspect Agatha is not going to want to rule Europa.

I find myself imagining the series ending with a round of Political Hot Potato: "I don't want it — here, you take it!" "No-no, I don't want it, you take it!" Then everyone tries to give it to Klaus, and he stands there laughing his butt of explaining that they "won" it fair and square, and there's no way he wants it back, because he's going to go rendezvous with his wife and fight monsters — and drink fluffy cocktails with umbrellas in them between monsters.

edited 10th Apr '13 2:29:16 PM by Hippogrif

Tarvek is once again the member of the conspiracy that actually did his homework. It makes me wonder what his plan was, that he researched so much about Mechanicsburg (including being the only person to bother researching the Jägers) but knew nothing about Zola.

One of my older theories was that he was in Paris trying to find his own fake Heterodyne Girl. But he may also have had some sort of argument to justify being accepted as The Next Best Thing to a Pure Line Heterodyne. Because he definitely did not research Zola.

Oh, dear. Cross-fandom crack pairings. I never did really think all that much of Hermione/Ron.

Can we convince her to take Tarvek, who's another ginger and who does his homework?

edited 10th Apr '13 2:32:03 PM by Hippogrif

@Claudeng: I think that might be the sunrise, actually, but I suppose I haven't read closely enough to be positive the recent darkness wasn't all stormclouds.

@Hippogrif: Well, it's not as if she's ever suggested she did want to, that I can recall. She seems to have settled into the idea of running Mechanicsburg, though, so the idea that she's going to want to get out of that somehow does not strike me as probable. Edit: Not that you've been suggesting it, that I recall, but I keep running across the idea that Bill or Barry will show up to relieve her of the requirement. (If Klaus had taken the route of trying to get her placed in Mechanicsburg, I suspect she would have balked at it somewhat — but I also imagine she'd have warmed to the idea.)

@Khilari: Yesss. Tarvek has fairly specialized knowledge about the Jägers when the rest of the conspiracy — unless you count Tiktoffen, who is kind of his own conspiracy — seems to have been largely disregarding them.

I think Agatha's fraying a bit, here. *pets her* Not in a Lu-like way, but — tired, hungry, stressed, worried about her people, and she probably thought it was time for a recuperation break right about now before anything else happened. Maybe somebody could hand her a shoggoth and brie sandwich on the way?

I look forward to seeing these systems Van is mentioning....

...I like Hermione/Ron just fine and suspect Hermione would be decidedly miffed at someone trying to replace her own selection. *g* Also, I don't think she wants to rule Europe either, although watching her try to reform GG-verse would be... uh... interesting.

edited 10th Apr '13 2:37:37 PM by PK

Oh, no — it's just a reaction to the recurring tropes of Agatha ending up Ruling All Europa. I not only don't think she's going to want it, I think she's going to evade it. I can see her keeping Mechanicsberg, but I have a hard time imagining her willingly letting herself be made The Big Ruler. And in all honesty, I can imagine her finding a way to slip out of ruling Mechanicsberg if she was allowed to keep her Heterodyne-family status and be an Honored Daughter of the Family.(Edit: I don't think Barry's return would count her out, and I think Bill's dead, as is Klaus Barry. Revive one of them and play by Wulfenbach rules regarding Revival and you can get her out of the job, but I'd actually like to see her keep Mechanicsberg: I think she does well by them, and vice versa...)

But what she wants, with all her heart, appears to be a simple good life with friends, family, necessities, and a GREAT LAB.

Eh. I was Hermione-Harry or Hermione-No-One-In-Particular (Like Agatha, I could have seen her opting to marry later, and someone who wasn't an Old School Chum...) But I do think she'd have the sense not to want to rule Everything.

edited 10th Apr '13 2:42:52 PM by Hippogrif

I keep wondering about Tarvek's actual ancestry. Because he surely can't be actually descended from Euphrosynia — the Jägers would react to the scent — but if he was he'd actually have a pretty good argument on Mechanicsburg's terms, at least in the absence of an actual heir.

Given some of the comments between Tarvek and Jorgi and the Generals, I think there's at least a chance of backstory that would "legitimate" a Storm King-descended rule over Mechanicsberg. I wonder what the default or forfeit terms of the original marriage tract for Andronicus/Euphro looked like?

Unless he actually has Heterodyne blood I doubt they'd care. I actually get somewhat the opposite impression — they're overlooking the Storm King thing, which would normally be enough for them to not want him in Mechanicsburg at all, because he's clearly there to help.

Agree/disagree. A sort of blend. When Tarvek was planning, there was no known Heterodyne...and I'm not sure that even Mechanicsberg would not at least consider a an alliance with someone with some form of legal claim, especially if Tarvek had been able to in some way repair or control Der K.

A Storm King who's really part of your heritage still trumps a Wulfenbach who isn't, if that makes sense.

But with a Heterodyne of their own, heritage can revert to "you're our traditional enemy, sort of...maybe. If the Lady doesn't decide to give you that room you liked in the harem..."

...I could see those being compatible, perhaps. If there's room for a Storm King to claim Mechanicsburg on terms the rest of Europa would recognize, the Jägers would generally not be in favor of this.

ETA: Hm. Maybe. But... according to the 2nd prologue... the Storm King was essentially claiming Euphrosynia as part of showing he'd won (to his credit, he thought she was in love with him and that he was forcing her family to let her do what she wanted), and the Heterodynes were sending her in to muck things up. I am dubious about turning administration over to his heir as something Mechanicsburg would happily go along with.

edited 10th Apr '13 3:04:09 PM by PK

Given that The Abbess may be in control of systems linked to the Cathedral, there may be room for a schism.

And Klaus, Klaus is on the way.

Yes. Abbess, Klaus, and who knows what. But I do think Agatha keeps her town.

I just...I find I fear the price tag. Klaus coming in the mood he's in scares me.

I don't know if it would, is the thing, because Mechanicsburg plays by different rules. And not all parts of Mechanicsburg play by the same rules. The Jägers, I think, would take Klaus every time, because he was Bill and Barry's friend. I don't know if the rest of Mechanicsburg takes quite their view of...relationships, I suppose, in that someone who was known to care about their Heterodynes comes first.

edited 10th Apr '13 3:09:23 PM by khil

I'm not saying your reasoning is wrong, but that it's reaching a bit far to rule out a possibility when we don't know what Tarvek's plan even was. For all we know he expected to fight a General for his hat.

All I'm trying to say is that a) Tarvek did have a plan, which b) we still have very little knowledge of, that c) involved knowing so much about Mechanicsberg it hurts, while d) having spent no time investigating Zola...and showing recurring signs of having not wanted to end up with The Fake Heterodyne Girl.

Actually, one suspects he didn't WANT Mechanicsberg...except insofar as it provided a route to fulfill his own plan. At no time do we see a sign he wants to usurp Agatha, even through the Grima Wormtongue "corrupt advisor" strategy. So far he's done right-well by her, while if anything working to ensure she has a strong and real set of other supporters who would even defend her against him. So I don't think he wants Mechanicsberg for himself.

But he researched it. In painstaking detail.

edited 10th Apr '13 3:20:12 PM by Hippogrif

I'm not sure what we're disagreeing about then? My point is only that, unless he does have hidden Heterodyne blood, which I find unlikely but intriguing, I don't think he could claim Mechanicsburg in any way Mechanicsburg would accept. I thought the idea that he intended to was your argument.

I'm only wondering why he researched Mechanicsburg — I don't have an answer, and I think you're right that his lack of research on Zola makes it unlikely her plan was ever part of his. So why? And why the Jägers when everyone else was disregarding them?

I'm not necessarily expecting you to come up with an answer, but it's interesting to consider. Or I thought it was.

Um... I think we're disagreeing because you appear to be ruling out the possibility of loopholes or claims that the Mechanicsbergers would accept? That I consider might be made possible by future reveals, along with all the REST of whatever Tarvek's Sekrit Planz might have been?

There was a plan. It involved Mechanicsberg at least somewhere along the line. Tarvek bothered studying Mechanicsberg in depth where he did not study the Fake Heterodyne Girl. It seems therefore possible his plan involved an expectation of taking over the town *somehow*, and lineage or legal loopholes that Mechanicsbergers would accept remain an open option. Yes, right now it looks unlikely...but without knowing the plan or the actual vast miles of hidden "Mechanicsberg Lore" ruling out Tarvek planning on winning over the town seems premature.

edited 10th Apr '13 3:35:26 PM by Hippogrif

I agree that we don't have enough evidence to rule out the possibility that the Storm King has some kind of claim on Mechanicsburg — or perhaps even that he has one the residents would concede. But I think we don't have enough evidence to offer it very strong support, either, especially in the latter form; and we do have evidence that bears against it, again especially in the latter form. A hypothesis can be impossible to rule out immediately and still legitimately viewed as unlikely.

And, no, he doesn't seem to want it for himself. This doesn't necessarily bear on his original plan — it could simply be that having the real Heterodyne girl as friend and ally (and maybe-romance) trumps whatever he came up with in her absence for any number of reasons, starting with actual friendship and potentially including that he's perfectly well aware Mechanicsburg will be more cooperative that way. *g*

edited 10th Apr '13 3:37:20 PM by PK

Oh, okay. A lot of your post seemed to be arguing against the idea of Tarvek wanting Mechanicsburg, and I got confused.

Yes, I am ruling it out, although not completely. It's maybe kind of possible, as a lot of things are when we lack information, but seems to rely on some very hazy legal loopholes in a situation where the Heterodynes would have reason to make sure there weren't any.

Oh, I think having Agatha doing her own job pleases him, even ruling out the possibility of a romance. He's been willing to accept her as a beloved friend and ally even after falling in love with her...and he was willing to let her leave Sturmhalten with no more than the hope of a future date before he became completely besotted.

So whatever it was, he's willing and even pleased to go a different route. On the other hand, I do think all along he's felt Mechanicsberg up and functioning was necessary...if only to show Klaus to be other than Omnipotent and Invulnerable. His plans seem to work best with a working Mechanicsberg.

Phil did an amazing job on Tarvek's last expression in this page. He manages to look proud of Agatha, deeply fond of her, and amused, all at the same time. If he were Christopher Robin, at this exact moment he'd be saying, "Silly old bear..."

edited 10th Apr '13 3:44:00 PM by Hippogrif

*nods* The situation is totally different now to it was when he came up with the plan. In this situation, if something happened to Agatha (which I really doubt due to the nature of the story, but hypothetically), I wouldn't even be surprised if the Mechanicsburgers did consider him to have some legitimacy of the type they previously extended to Klaus (not to actually rule as their Heterodyne would, but...something). Beloved friend and ally of our lost Heterodyne, and seems to know what he's doing.

And I agree that he doesn't want to take Mechanicsburg from Agatha, I never thought he did, which is why I was a bit confused at you arguing against it and thought you meant something else. I clearly didn't read carefully enough *g*

See, now, that's where I sort of differ. The entire Storm King thing's a mixed bag, but it's pretty clear that House Sturmvoraus and House Heterodyne were neighbors in a long-arc sort of way that seems to go beyond enemy/antagonism. The whole story of Prince Sturmvoraus' Bet suggests that the two families somehow remained socially connected...and not in a purely hostile way.

A Sturmvoraus who manages to repair your broken Castle, or do a work-around for you, for example, might look very GOOD compared to Klaus...even to the Jagers.

edited 10th Apr '13 3:54:09 PM by Hippogrif