Naruto

Again, Izanami is only useful in the hands of a tactical fighter who can play his opponent right into his hands, because of all the set-up that is required for it, like, you know, making a physical loop of events before you can actually use the damn thing.

No, it's only useful in the hands of a fighter whom the plot will not allow to lose, namely, Itachi.

You can try to defend it all you like - it's the Plot Convenience Jutsu to end all Plot Convenience Jutsu.

Why can't Tsukuyomi do that?

Isn't it also an illusionary jutsu?

Yes, a tactical fighter who can play his opponent right into his hands. In the hands of pretty much anyone else not named Itachi, Shikamaru, or Tobirama, it's basically useless.

It saw plenty of use back when it was first developed.

It was really weird from a plot perspective because Izanagi was supposed to be this super rare thing, but then we find out that it was once common and this thing was made to beat it which actually *is* super-rare, or some crap.

Cause apparently there were a bunch of morally good Uchiha who used it to prevent abuse of Izanagi, kind of like the pure-hearted Saiyans that led to the first Super Saiyan God showing up. Whatever remained of that small group of Uchiha were either killed off by Itachi and/or Obito during the Massacre, or just died out like the Senju did.

What does it matter that they were 'good'? Furthermore, they don't have to be morally upstanding, since they didn't prevent a war or something - they just made the eventual death of the Uchiha clan slower which, in my book, is a bad thing since the Uchiha are kind of genetically evil and all.

Anyway, the point is, it doesn't really require a tactically gifted shinobi or anything of the sort. It just needs the plot to say you're right.

I'm talking about an in-universe reason though, not an out-of-universe reason that, really wouldn't fly in a lot of other series.

In universe, it doesn't seem to require being particularly tactically minded to use.

Setting up a loop of actions does not require you to be a super genius fighter, especially if the opponent does not know that you can use Izanami and we know that it was used a lot when Izanagi spam was a problem. You can't use it a lot if it's so easy to counter.

It is very hard to pull off in combat, but Itachi did it because Itachi. Everything crazy about him has been repeated ad nauseam.

Now, if you want pound for pound bullshit, Izanagi is far more worse and dumb than Izanami. Izanami is used for very specific purposes, with very specific powers. On the other hand, Izanagi just does what Kishi needs it do, and it's much easier to activate it and use it (should one learn how to use it). It's pretty much just mild reality warping.

Izanagi is all or nothing anyway. You'll end up weaker if you win the fight, and if you screw up, you're half-blind against a guy who could already fight you at your peak power.

Unless you just repeatedly take eyes :p

edited 25th Oct '16 1:53:53 AM by Bolded1

It's a vicious cycle, then you get izanami'd.

In that regard, Obito was smart - he killed all the other Uchiha and took their eyes first. Of course he then went on to never actually use the super overpowered technique which he stocked up on ammo for.

Kamui is enough for him at this point.

Izanami is ridiculous because it makes no sense.

Not least of which because Izanagi can only be used twice per customer. For less than a minute. As for Obito...when did he ever really require Izanagi? He only really needed it as a trump card to save his life if things went sour. Then he got the Rinnegan and didn't bother.

edited 25th Oct '16 1:16:34 PM by Lightysnake

To be fair,tiring out Kamui requires some ridiculous BS.

The implication (or rather, explanation) is that the Uchiha kept stealing each other's eyes to use Izanagi over and over again.

Because they're all evil monsters and Itachi did the world a favor when he wiped them out, apparently.

Weren't the Izanami users the ones who were against abusing the technique at all?

The only thing that achieves is making the Uchiha clan last longer which, again, a bad thing in my book.

Maybe if Izanami had never been invented the Uchiha clan would've wiped itself out and we never would've had to deal with them.

Again, that whole thing implies that there were Uchiha that weren't power-hungry, and had even created a jutsu that sacrificed one of their eyes in order to try and prevent even more of that power-hungriness.

Maybe they were power hungry and just made the counter because it was a powerful jutsu.

Of course, we know that's not the case, but given that it's the Uchiha clan, it wouldn't surprise me.

Either that or the clan was dying out and they needed to stop people killing each other for eyes and start breeding.

I know if I could repeatedly use Izanagi, I'd definitely would....as long as I wasn't the on doing the "collecting." And assuming Naruto physics too (transplanting eyes does not work that way irl Kishi).

So the reason Obito was able to spam Kamui for years was cause he got a large supply of Sharingan eyes right?