Naruto

Funny, didn't think Jiraiya was Taken for Granite.

This is purely speculation though. The only thing that was made 'clear' was that Kurama was too much to be contained so he needed to be split into two parts. We know Minato was full of shit on that one on the basis that, well, his wife held the entire thing without issue.

They ain't bakin' chakra cakes, bro, it's not like they sit and mix their spiritual and physical energy every morning like a wizard preparing his spells for the day. Given the fact that they have chakra running through their bodies that they did not mold, I'm gonna go on a limb and say that while they do say that Chakra is a mix of physical and spiritual energy, they don't have to, y'know, actually do the mix and their bodies just do it automatically.

It's also important to note that Zetsu says that her speed and strength are nothing like before and she then proceeds to immediately get punked. There was no visible increase. She was still slower than Nardo and the Sauce. He also says that it's the birth of a new dimension but it proceeds to do jack shit.

What I'm saying is, Zetsu says a lot of things.

I think Kushina had the full thing cause she used a different seal.Minato wanted his to leak some chakra slowly to Naruto,or something.

Minato just says "It's too big to be sealed!" and doesn't really explain why he doesn't just do the same thing Mito did with Kushina, a seal that, for all that we know, might not have been suicidal to use.

I think we've discussed several times that Minato is either the most incompetent character in the entire manga or so evil that it makes perfect sense that he would be the one to train Obito.

Chakra is not created automatically◊, and in fact, does require training.

Which is why not everyone and their mother performs jutsus.

edited 18th Sep '16 9:13:25 AM by hardcorefakes

Stopped watching after the Hello Kitty doll appeared.

I mean,just comparing the seals,Mito/Kushina one seems much more constricting.I'm perfectly willing to buy that before Naruto,both Kurama hosts couldn't really access its power.Konoha is dumb like that.

He either lacked the knowledge or the power to replicate the seal Mito used. Minato may be a sealing master, but he's not Uzumaki like Mito.

@hardcorefakes

Nothing said in that explanation says that making chakra is a conscious effort.

All that's ever said is "It's made of these two things".

"Spiritual energy gained through training and other experiences."

It clearly says gathering spiritual energy requires training and experience. Which is needed to create chakra.

It doesn't "just" say what it's made of, it literally explains the process in how it's created. It has always been a manual process to create chakra.

Which, again, explains why most don't use it (effectively, at least).

edited 18th Sep '16 10:58:42 AM by hardcorefakes

As you can see, at no point does she explain the process of how chakra is created. She just says "body energy and spiritual energy are combined". She does not say "you must combine your body energy with your spiritual energy".

Furthermore, if they had to consciously make every bit of chakra they ever use, they would not have chakra running through them 24/7, which they do, and they would not be able to recover from Chakra Exhaustion that knocks them out, like Kakashi's, because they would need to consciously create chakra to replenish what's missing.

Ergo, the body refills itself with chakra automatically, and likely 'makes' that chakra automatically as well.

You.....do realize that does explain how it's created, right?

It says "these two are combined." It's a scan explaining how chakra is created. What do you think the above line is for? It's just base knowledge that chakra is created from combining physical and spiritual energy.

How can you say that's not what it's saying when that's exactly what it's saying?

Yes, trained shinobi have chakra running through their system 24/7, as they have trained all their lives to do that. Nothing exactly surprising or mind-boggling there.

No, chakra does not "fill up" in the body automatically. That's just objectively wrong. And if you have a scan or link that says it does, provide it.

edited 18th Sep '16 11:36:22 AM by hardcorefakes

My headcanon has always been that sealing a whole Kurama would have been impossible in a baby so he had to half it. Kushina became a jinchuriki when she was older and Naruto become Kurama;s full host at 17 so maybe fully developed chakra networks are necessary.

If Chakra does not recover automatically, explain how Kakashi woke up after chakra exhaustion knocked him out.

Explain how there can be chakra exhaustion at all, for that matter.

edited 18th Sep '16 11:35:53 AM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

Because it didn't freaking kill him, merely knock him out?

That, and they have medics on hand to revive incapacitated people? There are beings with no chakra, and they're just fine. Low chakra is not some insurmountable thing to overcome.

Chakra exhaustion =/= permanently incapacitated.

In fact, if all they had to do was balloon themselves with chakra every time they got injured, there would be no need for medical ninjas.

Chakra exhaustion is a thing because it has to be manually created. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

If they could subconsciously constantly refill themselves with chakra, they would never face the idea of a finite chakra pool. But they do, so shinobi have to micromanage chakra usage (at least in the middle of stressful situations).

edited 18th Sep '16 11:51:39 AM by hardcorefakes

Kakashi was knocked out, in a civilian's house, very far away from any ninja medic, just about out of chakra.

If ninja don't recover their chakra naturally and automatically, how could Kakashi recover from Chakra Exhaustion?

You say that they have to consciously make their chakra.

Kakashi is unconscious because of Chakra Exhaustion.

If chakra does not recover automatically, how does Kakashi recover from his chakra exhaustion?

I will keep asking that question until you actually answer it.

Kakashi emptied himself & he dropped cause he overexerted himself & had no fuel.

He needed a break & after some rest his chakra would come back.

Not just me, the manga says it as well. Ebisu explains it, as does Fukasaku.

Of course, you'll say "nuh-uh" and stomp around like you usually do, but I'm still pointing it out.

Is it so hard for you to wrap your mind around the idea that Kakashi could - wait for it - wake up without his chakra being fully recovered?

I mean, at this rate I should've just re-posted my quote again for this insanity.

edited 18th Sep '16 3:44:48 PM by hardcorefakes

Kakashi was knocked out because he ran out of chakra. Why would he wake up from 'chakra exhaustion' if he has not yet recovered his chakra?

That's like waking up from a head trauma induced coma without actually healing the damage done to your brain.

Ebisu's chart at no point says "this is how you create chakra", in fact, Ebisu's chart includes Chibi Naruto saying that he slept and ate ramen and he is at full stamina in a chart that says Stamina = Chakra. This supports my point, that Chakra recovers automatically, and not yours that says they need to consciously make it.

The one that does support your point is Fukasaku, who says you actively have to combine those two in order to have chakra.

But that runs counter to the fact that ninja have chakra all the time without having to stop to fill themselves up with chakra every time they use it. If they have to actively and consciously make their chakra, then Naruto's problem of 'having too much' would be very easy to solve, now wouldn't it?

Yanno, this all becomes significantly easier when you remember chakra is supposed to be Ki and someone just messed up when it came to naming it. (The eight gates correspond to the actual chakras, IINM, and the explanation of 'chakra' is exactly the same explanation for Ki in, say, the Dragon Ball universe. Because Chakra is Ki by any other name.)

edited 18th Sep '16 4:36:41 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

Ugh. This is still happening.

Chakra is in all living things, but can be trained up (Lee, Guy, Samurai, and the general concept of "ninja", for example), can temporarily run out (Kakashi, Shikamaru every time he fights), is expended in various ways (different jutsu, etc.) used with different amounts of efficiency (Kakashi and Ebisu lectures), recover at different speeds (Kakashi, Shikamaru again), and so on.

Training is clearly useful in both maintaining and increasing one's talent and chakra reserves.

If you guys are gonna keep arguing, would anyone else rather they move it to private messages? It doesn't seem like anyone else is being convinced here one way or the other.

I agree with all of that stuff regarding chakra.

I agree.

This is getting really excessive again.

I didn't get how the earlier argument even led to this Chakra tangent.