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* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: In the musical, we get this gag of Max watching his life pass before his eyes and remembering growing up on a country farm... then realizing that that's ''not'' his life ("I'm not a hillbilly, I grew up in the Bronx!") and concluding that, in addition to stealing his money and love interest, Leo has stolen his past! [[MST3KMantra Don't think too hard about it]] or [[RuleOfFunny it won't be funny]].

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* BigLippedAlligatorMoment: In the musical, we get this gag of Max watching his life pass before his eyes and remembering growing up on a country farm... then realizing that that's ''not'' his life ("I'm not a hillbilly, I grew up in the Bronx!") and concluding that, in addition to stealing his money and love interest, [[InsaneTrollLogic Leo has stolen his past! past!]] [[MST3KMantra Don't think too hard about it]] or [[RuleOfFunny it won't be funny]].
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%%All Memetic Mutation examples must explain how they're used as memes.
%%MemeticMutation
%%"That's our Hitler!" to the point where it was used on an episode of ''Series/{{House}}''.
%%"Will the ''dancing'' Hitlers please wait in the wings? We are only seeing ''singing'' Hitlers!"
%%"That's it baby! When you got it, '''FLAUNT IT! FLAUNT IT!'''"
%%"I'm in pain! I'm in ''pain'' and I'm wet and '''I'M STILL HYSTERICAL!'''"
%%"I fell on my keys."
%%"Don't be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi party!" Especially because in both movies and the show (including touring productions), the line is ''always'' a recording of Mel Brooks' voice.
%%"You are the audience! I am the author! I outrank you!"
%%The infamous "Blue Blanket" scene, especially the Gene Wilder version.
%%"I WANT EVERYTHING I'VE EVER SEEN IN THE MOVIES!"

to:

%%All Memetic Mutation examples must explain how they're * MemeticMutation: "GET OUUUUUUT! (It's over!)" is used as memes.
%%MemeticMutation
%%"That's our Hitler!" to
by Website/{{YouTube}}r [[https://www.youtube.com/@Joeybar./featured Joeybar]] at the point where it was used on an episode end of ''Series/{{House}}''.
%%"Will the ''dancing'' Hitlers please wait in the wings? We are only seeing ''singing'' Hitlers!"
%%"That's it baby! When you got it, '''FLAUNT IT! FLAUNT IT!'''"
%%"I'm in pain! I'm in ''pain'' and I'm wet and '''I'M STILL HYSTERICAL!'''"
%%"I fell on my keys."
%%"Don't be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi party!" Especially because in both movies and the show (including touring productions), the line is ''always'' a recording of Mel Brooks' voice.
%%"You are the audience! I am the author! I outrank you!"
%%The infamous "Blue Blanket" scene, especially the Gene Wilder version.
%%"I WANT EVERYTHING I'VE EVER SEEN IN THE MOVIES!"
his videos.
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* AwardSnub: Creator/MelBrooks won an UsefulNotes/AcademyAward for Best Original Screenplay and Creator/GeneWilder was nominated for Best Supporting Actor, but Creator/ZeroMostel wasn't nominated and "Springtime for Hitler" wasn't nominated for Best Song.

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* AwardSnub: Creator/MelBrooks won an UsefulNotes/AcademyAward MediaNotes/AcademyAward for Best Original Screenplay and Creator/GeneWilder was nominated for Best Supporting Actor, but Creator/ZeroMostel wasn't nominated and "Springtime for Hitler" wasn't nominated for Best Song.



** In the UsefulNotes/{{Broadway}} production, the audience starts laughing the moment the first outlandishly-dressed woman comes on stage during "''Springtime for Hitler and Germany/Deutschland is happy and gay...''"

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** In the UsefulNotes/{{Broadway}} Platform/{{Broadway}} production, the audience starts laughing the moment the first outlandishly-dressed woman comes on stage during "''Springtime for Hitler and Germany/Deutschland is happy and gay...''"



* FairForItsDay: Sure, Roger's cross-dressing, [[CampGay flamboyance]] and implied relationship with Carmen (and [[ButNotTooGay it]] ''[[ButNotTooGay had]]'' [[ButNotTooGay to be implied]], what with UsefulNotes/TheHaysCode only being abolished for two years at this point) are [[QueerPeopleAreFunny played entirely for laughs]], but for the 1960s, it's surprisingly understated, more closely resembling that of a normal modern openly gay couple than a cruel caricature that would be expected of the era. The worst he does is flirt with Leo and even then, it's more a joke at Leo's expense, showing just how sheltered and out of his depth he is. It helps that Mel Brooks himself has been a vocal supporter of LGBTQ+ causes for his entire career.

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* FairForItsDay: Sure, Roger's cross-dressing, [[CampGay flamboyance]] and implied relationship with Carmen (and [[ButNotTooGay it]] ''[[ButNotTooGay had]]'' [[ButNotTooGay to be implied]], what with UsefulNotes/TheHaysCode MediaNotes/TheHaysCode only being abolished for two years at this point) are [[QueerPeopleAreFunny played entirely for laughs]], but for the 1960s, it's surprisingly understated, more closely resembling that of a normal modern openly gay couple than a cruel caricature that would be expected of the era. The worst he does is flirt with Leo and even then, it's more a joke at Leo's expense, showing just how sheltered and out of his depth he is. It helps that Mel Brooks himself has been a vocal supporter of LGBTQ+ causes for his entire career.
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Renamed some tropes.


* ItsTheSameSoItSucks: A major part of the critique for the 2005 film is that it changes very, very little from the musical, to the point of bordering on being a filmed performance. Though this does make it a good viewing for people who never got to see it on Broadway, some critics have noted that certain things that work very well onstage, such as BreakingTheFourthWall, just don't quite land on film. Then again, one suspects that [[RecursiveAdaptation "the musical re-adapted to fit film" would just end up being the original film again.]]

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* ItsTheSameSoItSucks: ItsTheSameNowItSucks: A major part of the critique for the 2005 film is that it changes very, very little from the musical, to the point of bordering on being a filmed performance. Though this does make it a good viewing for people who never got to see it on Broadway, some critics have noted that certain things that work very well onstage, such as BreakingTheFourthWall, just don't quite land on film. Then again, one suspects that [[RecursiveAdaptation "the musical re-adapted to fit film" would just end up being the original film again.]]again]].



* SpecialEffectsFailure: A BlackComedy made for a little under a million dollars isn't going to buy you much in the way of visual effects in 1968. As such, the theater "blowing up" is clearly just some hastily-created stop-motion cutout animation where reddish colored paper is moved about inside a still photo of the theater.

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* SpecialEffectsFailure: SpecialEffectFailure: A BlackComedy made for a little under a million dollars isn't going to buy you much in the way of visual effects in 1968. As such, the theater "blowing up" is clearly just some hastily-created stop-motion cutout animation where reddish colored paper is moved about inside a still photo of the theater.
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** LSD is the ultimate one-joke character, but Dick Shawn's LargeHam performance is unforgettable.

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** LSD is the ultimate one-joke character, but Dick Shawn's Creator/DickShawn's LargeHam performance is unforgettable.
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** And Goering is Barney Martin, then fresh off his 20 year career with the NYPD and a few decades away from playing [[Series/{{Seinfeld}} Morty Seinfeld]].

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** And Goering is Barney Martin, Creator/BarneyMartin, then fresh off his 20 year career with the NYPD and a few decades away from playing [[Series/{{Seinfeld}} Morty Seinfeld]].


* TrueArtIsIncomprehensible: The "song" LSD "performs" during his Hitler-audition.
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** Gene Wilder was nominated for an Oscar for the original film. The man he lost to? Creator/JackAlbertson, who he would star with in ''Film/WillyWonkaAndTheChocolateFactory''.

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Zero Context Examples.


* MemeticMutation
** "That's our Hitler!" to the point where it was used on an episode of ''Series/{{House}}''.
** "Will the ''dancing'' Hitlers please wait in the wings? We are only seeing ''singing'' Hitlers!"
** "That's it baby! When you got it, '''FLAUNT IT! FLAUNT IT!'''"
** "I'm in pain! I'm in ''pain'' and I'm wet and '''I'M STILL HYSTERICAL!'''"
** "I fell on my keys."
** "Don't be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi party!" Especially because in both movies and the show (including touring productions), the line is ''always'' a recording of Mel Brooks' voice.
** "You are the audience! I am the author! I outrank you!"
** The infamous "Blue Blanket" scene, especially the Gene Wilder version.
** "I WANT EVERYTHING I'VE EVER SEEN IN THE MOVIES!"

to:

* MemeticMutation
** "That's
%%All Memetic Mutation examples must explain how they're used as memes.
%%MemeticMutation
%%"That's
our Hitler!" to the point where it was used on an episode of ''Series/{{House}}''.
** "Will %%"Will the ''dancing'' Hitlers please wait in the wings? We are only seeing ''singing'' Hitlers!"
** "That's %%"That's it baby! When you got it, '''FLAUNT IT! FLAUNT IT!'''"
** "I'm %%"I'm in pain! I'm in ''pain'' and I'm wet and '''I'M STILL HYSTERICAL!'''"
** "I %%"I fell on my keys."
** "Don't %%"Don't be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi party!" Especially because in both movies and the show (including touring productions), the line is ''always'' a recording of Mel Brooks' voice.
** "You %%"You are the audience! I am the author! I outrank you!"
** The %%The infamous "Blue Blanket" scene, especially the Gene Wilder version.
** "I %%"I WANT EVERYTHING I'VE EVER SEEN IN THE MOVIES!"
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None

Added DiffLines:

* BaseBreakingCharacter: Or rather the lack of him, many fans of the original unhappy that Lorenzo St Dubois (LSD) was dropped from the remake, Mel Brooks needing to cut the running time and feeling that modern audiences would not relate to a 60s hippie character.
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None

Added DiffLines:

* ItsTheSameSoItSucks: A major part of the critique for the 2005 film is that it changes very, very little from the musical, to the point of bordering on being a filmed performance. Though this does make it a good viewing for people who never got to see it on Broadway, some critics have noted that certain things that work very well onstage, such as BreakingTheFourthWall, just don't quite land on film. Then again, one suspects that [[RecursiveAdaptation "the musical re-adapted to fit film" would just end up being the original film again.]]
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None


** It's Roger who really makes it happen. If Franz had gone on as planned, we'd have a serious Hitler singing. But then Roger comes on with a ''heavy'' country accent while saying "Hotsy-totsy-Nazi", flapping his arms around flamboyantly, and hitting on the backup dancers. No one can take it seriously, and soon the film audience is laughing away.

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** It's Roger who really makes it happen. The point in-universe is when [[AdolfHitlarious Hitler shows up]]. If Franz had gone on as planned, we'd have a serious Hitler. And then comes hippie Hitler singing. But then Roger comes on with a ''heavy'' country accent while saying "Hotsy-totsy-Nazi", flapping his arms around flamboyantly, and hitting on in the backup dancers. No movie, or CampGay Hitler in the play, no one can take it seriously, and soon the film audience is laughing away.
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Added DiffLines:

** Is Franz really an eccentric former Nazi who knew Hitler personally, or is he just a mentally-ill vagrant with an ideological infatuation towards Nazism?
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*** Also in the musical, Roger and Carmen walk into the apartment to find Leo and Max wrestling on the ground with Leo on top of and behind Max as he’s yelling at Max to give “it” (the books) to him. Roger remarks, "Now that's what I call celebrating!" (Roger and Carmen are, of course, flamboyantly gay.)

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*** Also in the musical, Roger and Carmen walk into the apartment to find Leo and Max wrestling on the ground with Leo on top of and seemingly mounting Max from behind Max as he’s yelling at Max to give “it” (the books) to him. Roger remarks, "Now that's what I call celebrating!" (Roger and Carmen are, of course, flamboyantly gay.)
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*** Also in the musical, Roger and Carmen walk into the apartment to find Leo and Max wrestling on the ground. Roger remarks, "Now that's what I call celebrating!" (Roger and Carmen are, of course, flamboyantly gay.)

to:

*** Also in the musical, Roger and Carmen walk into the apartment to find Leo and Max wrestling on the ground.ground with Leo on top of and behind Max as he’s yelling at Max to give “it” (the books) to him. Roger remarks, "Now that's what I call celebrating!" (Roger and Carmen are, of course, flamboyantly gay.)
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* SlowPacedBeginning: The film begins with an unnecessarily long sequence where Bloom engages in a lengthy conversation with Bialystock in order to illustrate how slimy Bialystock is followed by an equally lengthy exposition about how the Broadway scam is supposed to work. On the other hand, it has some of the best lines of the movie ("My blanket! MY BLUE BLANKET!").

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* SlowPacedBeginning: The film begins with an unnecessarily long sequence (a holdover from Brooks's original idea to do it as a stage play) where Bloom engages in a lengthy conversation with Bialystock in order to illustrate how slimy Bialystock is followed by an equally lengthy exposition about how the Broadway scam is supposed to work. On the other hand, it has some of the best lines of the movie ("My blanket! MY BLUE BLANKET!").

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Removed: 251

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** In the original film, Creator/WilliamHickey as the drunken bar patron, and Creator/EstelleWinwood as "Hold Me Touch Me."

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** In the original film, Creator/WilliamHickey as the drunken bar patron, patron and Creator/EstelleWinwood as "Hold Me Touch Me." Bill Macy (the future co-star of ''Series/{{Maude}}'') is a one-''line'' wonder as the jury foreman who says "We find the defendants incredibly guilty."



** Bill Macy, who later became famous as Creator/BeaArthur's co-star on ''Series/{{Maude}}'', in onscreen in the original movie for only a few seconds, but everyone remembers him for his delivery of the line "We find the defendants incredibly guilty."

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Changed: 40

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* AwardSnub: Creator/MelBrooks won an UsefulNotes/AcademyAward for Best Original Screenplay and Creator/GeneWilder was nominated for Best Supporting Actor, but "Springtime for Hitler" wasn't nominated for Best Song.

to:

* AwardSnub: Creator/MelBrooks won an UsefulNotes/AcademyAward for Best Original Screenplay and Creator/GeneWilder was nominated for Best Supporting Actor, but Creator/ZeroMostel wasn't nominated and "Springtime for Hitler" wasn't nominated for Best Song.


Added DiffLines:

** Bill Macy, who later became famous as Creator/BeaArthur's co-star on ''Series/{{Maude}}'', in onscreen in the original movie for only a few seconds, but everyone remembers him for his delivery of the line "We find the defendants incredibly guilty."
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Wiki/ namespace cleaning.


** Many people who have actually worked in theater, including on Wiki/ThisVeryWiki, have pointed out that Roger isn't ''that'' bad as a director. If you have extensive theater experience, you know that if the biggest issue with the director is that he's over-the-top, campy, and tacky, you've lucked out -- those are issues that can still be ''worked with''. He also appears to treat his crew and cast pretty well, and simply does ''not'' give up. It's understandable to think that he'd be wholly unsuited for "Springtime For Hitler," but of all the directors one could end up working with, Roger is far from the worst.

to:

** Many people who have actually worked in theater, including on Wiki/ThisVeryWiki, Website/ThisVeryWiki, have pointed out that Roger isn't ''that'' bad as a director. If you have extensive theater experience, you know that if the biggest issue with the director is that he's over-the-top, campy, and tacky, you've lucked out -- those are issues that can still be ''worked with''. He also appears to treat his crew and cast pretty well, and simply does ''not'' give up. It's understandable to think that he'd be wholly unsuited for "Springtime For Hitler," but of all the directors one could end up working with, Roger is far from the worst.
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Natter


** Many people who have actually worked in theater, including on Wiki/ThisVeryWiki, have pointed out that Roger isn't ''that'' bad as a director. If you have extensive theater experience, you know that if the biggest issue with the director is that he's over-the-top, campy, and tacky, you've lucked out -- those are issues that can still be ''worked with''. He also appears to treat his crew and cast pretty well, and simply does ''not'' give up. It's understandable to think that he'd be wholly unsuited for "Springtime For Hitler," but of all the directors one could end up working with, Roger is far from the worst. (Keep in mind, though, that he is also presented as 'bad' in the sense of being responsible for multiple flops, which is all about which Max and Leo care.)

to:

** Many people who have actually worked in theater, including on Wiki/ThisVeryWiki, have pointed out that Roger isn't ''that'' bad as a director. If you have extensive theater experience, you know that if the biggest issue with the director is that he's over-the-top, campy, and tacky, you've lucked out -- those are issues that can still be ''worked with''. He also appears to treat his crew and cast pretty well, and simply does ''not'' give up. It's understandable to think that he'd be wholly unsuited for "Springtime For Hitler," but of all the directors one could end up working with, Roger is far from the worst. (Keep in mind, though, that he is also presented as 'bad' in the sense of being responsible for multiple flops, which is all about which Max and Leo care.)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Riger is a 'bad' director because he's flopped repeatedly.


** Many people who have actually worked in theater, including on Wiki/ThisVeryWiki, have pointed out that Roger isn't ''that'' bad as a director. If you have extensive theater experience, you know that if the biggest issue with the director is that he's over-the-top, campy, and tacky, you've lucked out -- those are issues that can still be ''worked with''. He also appears to treat his crew and cast pretty well, and simply does ''not'' give up. It's understandable to think that he'd be wholly unsuited for "Springtime For Hitler," but of all the directors one could end up working with, Roger is far from the worst.

to:

** Many people who have actually worked in theater, including on Wiki/ThisVeryWiki, have pointed out that Roger isn't ''that'' bad as a director. If you have extensive theater experience, you know that if the biggest issue with the director is that he's over-the-top, campy, and tacky, you've lucked out -- those are issues that can still be ''worked with''. He also appears to treat his crew and cast pretty well, and simply does ''not'' give up. It's understandable to think that he'd be wholly unsuited for "Springtime For Hitler," but of all the directors one could end up working with, Roger is far from the worst. (Keep in mind, though, that he is also presented as 'bad' in the sense of being responsible for multiple flops, which is all about which Max and Leo care.)

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* AwardSnub: Creator/MelBrooks won an UsefulNotes/AcademyAward for Best Original Screenplay and Creator/GeneWilder was nominated for Best Supporting Actor, but "Springtime for Hitler" wasn't nominated for Best Song.



** In the Broadway production, the audience starts laughing the moment the first outlandishly-dressed woman comes on stage during "''Springtime for Hitler and Germany/Deutschland is happy and gay...''"
* EndingFatigue: As Mel himself later agreed, the original movie is basically over after the ''Springtime For Hitler'' scene. Everything between that and the final scene only serves to set up [[HereWeGoAgain the inevitable punchline]], and even after all that, the film only clocks in at 88 minutes. The musical amends this by having Leo abandon Max as he's taken to jail by running off to Rio with Ulla, thus giving them more personal conflict, and making the climax in the courthouse more satisfying. Ironically, when this was translated ''back'' to screen for the movie musical, it was criticized for dragging (see "{{Padding}}").

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** In the Broadway UsefulNotes/{{Broadway}} production, the audience starts laughing the moment the first outlandishly-dressed woman comes on stage during "''Springtime for Hitler and Germany/Deutschland is happy and gay...''"
* EndingFatigue: As Mel Creator/MelBrooks himself later agreed, the original movie is basically over after the ''Springtime For Hitler'' scene. Everything between that and the final scene only serves to set up [[HereWeGoAgain the inevitable punchline]], and even after all that, the film only clocks in at 88 minutes. The musical amends this by having Leo abandon Max as he's taken to jail by running off to Rio with Ulla, thus giving them more personal conflict, and making the climax in the courthouse more satisfying. Ironically, when this was translated ''back'' to screen for the movie musical, it was criticized for dragging (see "{{Padding}}").



** Kenneth Mars steals every scene he's in as Franz Liebkind (mostly so he [[ChewingTheScenery can eat it later]]).
** Roger De Bris’ popularity skyrocketed with his expanded role in the musical, with Gary Beach’s [[LargeHam delicious and lovable performance]] stealing the show for many.

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** Kenneth Mars Creator/KennethMars steals every scene he's in as Franz Liebkind (mostly so he [[ChewingTheScenery can eat it later]]).
** Roger De Bris’ Bris' popularity skyrocketed with his expanded role in the musical, with Gary Beach’s [[LargeHam delicious and lovable performance]] stealing the show for many.



* HollywoodPudgy: After the unexpected success of ''Springtime for Hitler'', Max and Leo trade insults, with the latter falling back on [[YouAreFat calling Max fat]] ("FAT! FAAAT! FATTY FATSO!"). This worked in the original film, as Max was played by the [[BigFun genuinely large]] Zero Mostel. But in the original Broadway production and 2005 film, Max is played by Nathan Lane, who, while not super-slim, certainly isn't fat either--he's a little doughy at best. The movie [[LampshadeHanging lampshades]] the trope by having a confused Max remark "I'm not that fat" and making it seem like Leo is simply too distraught to come up with any genuine insults about him.

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* HollywoodPudgy: After the unexpected success of ''Springtime for Hitler'', Max and Leo trade insults, with the latter falling back on [[YouAreFat calling Max fat]] ("FAT! FAAAT! FATTY FATSO!"). This worked in the original film, as Max was played by the [[BigFun genuinely large]] Zero Mostel. Creator/ZeroMostel. But in the original Broadway production and 2005 film, Max is played by Nathan Lane, Creator/NathanLane, who, while not super-slim, certainly isn't fat either--he's a little doughy at best. The movie [[LampshadeHanging lampshades]] the trope by having a confused Max remark "I'm not that fat" and making it seem like Leo is simply too distraught to come up with any genuine insults about him.



*** According to Creator/GeneWilder, the very first thing Zero Mostel did when they met was drag him into the room by the arm and kiss him on the mouth. Make of that what you will.
*** In the ''Series/JimmyKimmelLive'' parody (An AnachronismStew sketch lampooning Donald Trump, with Nathan Lane and Matthew Broderick reprising their roles), Max, now a political consultant hearing from Leo that the two can make more money from a losing candidate than a winning one, takes Leo in his arms, Gone with the Wind poster style. Leo even says, "Max, don't..."

to:

*** According to Creator/GeneWilder, the very first thing Zero Mostel Creator/ZeroMostel did when they met was drag him into the room by the arm and kiss him on the mouth. Make of that what you will.
*** In the ''Series/JimmyKimmelLive'' parody (An AnachronismStew sketch lampooning Donald Trump, Creator/DonaldTrump, with Nathan Lane Creator/NathanLane and Matthew Broderick Creator/MatthewBroderick reprising their roles), Max, now a political consultant hearing from Leo that the two can make more money from a losing candidate than a winning one, takes Leo in his arms, Gone with the Wind poster style. Leo even says, "Max, don't..."



** And that's legendary character actor William Hickey, better known to gen-xers and millennials as [[Film/NationalLampoonsChristmasVacation Uncle Lewis]] and the voice of [[WesternAnimation/TheNightmareBeforeChristmas Dr. Finklestein]], playing the drunk.

to:

** And that's legendary character actor William Hickey, Creator/WilliamHickey, better known to gen-xers and millennials as [[Film/NationalLampoonsChristmasVacation Uncle Lewis]] and the voice of [[WesternAnimation/TheNightmareBeforeChristmas Dr. Finklestein]], playing the drunk.
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Added DiffLines:

** LSD is the ultimate one-joke character, but Dick Shawn's LargeHam performance is unforgettable.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Leo and Max watching, devastated, as the audience howls with laughter at their play, informing them beyond a shadow of a down that their plan failed spectacularly and they've just doomed themselves to a prison sentence. Just before the scene cuts, a single tear rolls down Leo's face as the score plays a short minor-key rendition of "Springtime for Hitler." They may be committing tax fraud, but after seeing everything they went through to accomplish it, you can't help but feel a little sorry to see that it was all for naught.

to:

** Leo and Max watching, devastated, as the audience howls with laughter at their play, informing them beyond a shadow of a down doubt that their plan failed spectacularly and they've just doomed themselves to a prison sentence. Just before the scene cuts, a single tear rolls down Leo's face as the score plays a short minor-key rendition of "Springtime for Hitler." They may be committing tax fraud, but after seeing everything they went through to accomplish it, you can't help but feel a little sorry to see that it was all for naught.

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