Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / PocahontasIIJourneyToANewWorld

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:

Added DiffLines:

* CompleteMonster: [[HistoricalVillainUpgrade Governor John Ratcliffe]] is the [[EvilColonialist cruel]], greedy [[AntagonisticGovernor leader]] of the English settlers. Believing that the native Powhatan are [[{{Greed}} hiding gold from him]], [[PoliticallyIncorrectVillain Ratcliffe]] orders that anyone who even looks at a native without shooting them will be hanged. He later tries to lead his men into battle, planning to slaughter the whole community, even trying to shoot the Powhatan Chief despite both sides now wanting peace. [[WesternAnimation/{{Pocahontas}} After he is thwarted]], Ratcliffe returns, obsessed with revenge. He attempts to kill John Smith and manipulates the King and Queen, planning to kickstart a bloody war solely to have vengeance on the Powhatan. Ratcliffe even has a bear tortured in front of Pocahontas so she could get riled up, and stand against the king, leading to her arrest with threat of execution.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Divided as opinions on the movie are, many agree that Ratcliffe was a much more effective villain. He manages to use Pocahontas's FriendToAllLivingThings nature against her and nearly get her ''executed'', and is generally more threatening because as an aristocrat, he's almost all-powerful in London, Pocahontas now being in his domain -- and frighteningly can get away with it. Perhaps most importantly, he directly meets and interacts with Pocahontas this time, unlike the first movie.

to:

** Divided as opinions on the movie are, many agree that Ratcliffe was a much more effective villain. villain here than in the original. He makes attempts on John Smith's life that are ''not'' accidental, manages to use Pocahontas's FriendToAllLivingThings nature against her and nearly get her ''executed'', and is generally more threatening because as an aristocrat, he's almost all-powerful in London, Pocahontas now being in his domain -- and frighteningly can get away with it. Perhaps most importantly, he directly meets and interacts with Pocahontas this time, unlike the first movie.

Added: 218

Changed: 216

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* HarsherInHindsight: Pocahontas wearing powder on her face to make her skin lighter is uncomfortably reminiscent of the infamous redesigns of the Disney Princesses - where a lot of the skin tones on the darker princesses were lightened.

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: HarsherInHindsight:
**
Pocahontas wearing powder on her face to make her skin lighter is uncomfortably reminiscent of the infamous redesigns of the Disney Princesses - where a lot of the skin tones on the darker princesses were lightened.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Requires commercial underperformance or other objective proof enough audiences were alienated.


* AudienceAlienatingPremise: This movie is often considered [[{{Sequelitis}} one of the less bad Disney sequels]], a few even consider it better than the original (though this can be DamnedByFaintPraise in some cases). Its premise though makes it a rather difficult sell: It tries to continue the story of the original film by making it somewhat more in line with the actual life of Pocahontas, such as setting her up with John Rolfe, the man she married in reality. However, most people irritated at the first film's [[BasedOnAGreatBigLie impressive liberties]] with history would probably find them too big of a dealbreaker to even consider watching a low-budget direct-to-video sequel. Meanwhile, the people who liked the original ''WesternAnimation/{{Pocahontas}}'' clearly didn't consider those elements a dealbreaker, and having suspended their disbelief far enough to accept the original film's main couple, don't want to see them broken up.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AudienceAlienatingPremise: This movie is often considered [[{{Sequelitis}} one of the less bad Disney sequels]], a few even consider it better than the original (though this can be DamnedByFaintPraise in some cases). Its premise though makes it a rather difficult sell: It tries to continue the story of the original film by making it somewhat more in line with the actual life of Pocahontas, such as setting her up with John Rolfe, the man she married in reality. However, most people irritated at the first film's [[BasedOnAGreatBigLie impressive liberties]] with history would probably find them too big of a dealbreaker to even consider watching a low-budget direct-to-video sequel. Meanwhile, the people who liked the original ''WesternAnimation/{{Pocahontas}}'' clearly didn't consider those elements a dealbreaker, and would be rather snippy at the possibility of breaking up the original film's main couple.

to:

* AudienceAlienatingPremise: This movie is often considered [[{{Sequelitis}} one of the less bad Disney sequels]], a few even consider it better than the original (though this can be DamnedByFaintPraise in some cases). Its premise though makes it a rather difficult sell: It tries to continue the story of the original film by making it somewhat more in line with the actual life of Pocahontas, such as setting her up with John Rolfe, the man she married in reality. However, most people irritated at the first film's [[BasedOnAGreatBigLie impressive liberties]] with history would probably find them too big of a dealbreaker to even consider watching a low-budget direct-to-video sequel. Meanwhile, the people who liked the original ''WesternAnimation/{{Pocahontas}}'' clearly didn't consider those elements a dealbreaker, and would be rather snippy at the possibility of breaking up having suspended their disbelief far enough to accept the original film's main couple.couple, don't want to see them broken up.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Requires Word Of God confirmation


* AuthorsSavingThrow: This movie attempts to bring some historical accuracy back into the continuity, which was a common complaint about the first film (though it was admitted that with the first film, they were going off the legend rather than the real-life history). Unfortunately, this was not without its share of new complaints; see ContestedSequel below.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The scene where Pocahontas gets arrested became this after Irene Bedard was arrested twice in November 2020: the first was for alleged domestic violence, and the second was for alleged disorderly conduct.

to:

** The scene where Pocahontas gets arrested became this after Irene Bedard was arrested twice in November 2020: the first was for alleged domestic violence, and the second was for alleged disorderly conduct. She also got arrested again two years later.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* AudienceAlienatingPremise: This movie is often considered [[{{Sequelitis}} one of the less bad Disney sequels]] (a few even consider it better than the original, though this is mostly DamnedByFaintPraise at work), but its premise makes it a rather difficult sell. It tries to continue the story of the original film by making it somewhat more in line with the actual life of Pocahontas, such as setting her up with John Rolfe, the man she married in reality. However, most people irritated at the first film's... ''[[BasedOnAGreatBigLie liberties]]'' with history would probably find them too big of a dealbreaker to even consider watching a low-budget direct-to-video sequel. Meanwhile, the people who liked the original ''WesternAnimation/{{Pocahontas}}'' clearly didn't consider those elements a dealbreaker, and would be rather snippy at the possibility of breaking up the original film's main couple.

to:

* AudienceAlienatingPremise: This movie is often considered [[{{Sequelitis}} one of the less bad Disney sequels]] (a sequels]], a few even consider it better than the original, though original (though this is mostly can be DamnedByFaintPraise at work), but its in some cases). Its premise though makes it a rather difficult sell. sell: It tries to continue the story of the original film by making it somewhat more in line with the actual life of Pocahontas, such as setting her up with John Rolfe, the man she married in reality. However, most people irritated at the first film's... ''[[BasedOnAGreatBigLie liberties]]'' film's [[BasedOnAGreatBigLie impressive liberties]] with history would probably find them too big of a dealbreaker to even consider watching a low-budget direct-to-video sequel. Meanwhile, the people who liked the original ''WesternAnimation/{{Pocahontas}}'' clearly didn't consider those elements a dealbreaker, and would be rather snippy at the possibility of breaking up the original film's main couple.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The scene where Pocahontas gets arrested became this after Irene Bedard was arrested twice in November 2020: alleged domestic violence, and the second was for alleged disorderly conduct.

to:

** The scene where Pocahontas gets arrested became this after Irene Bedard was arrested twice in November 2020: the first was for alleged domestic violence, and the second was for alleged disorderly conduct.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* AudienceAlienatingPremise: This movie is often considered [[{{Sequelitis}} one of the less bad Disney sequels]] (a few even consider it better than the original, though this is mostly DamnedByFaintPraise at work), but its premise makes it a rather difficult sell. It tries to continue the story of the original film by making it somewhat more in line with the actual life of Pocahontas, such as setting her up with John Rolfe, the man she married in reality. However, most people irritated at the first film's... ''[[BasedOnAGreatBigLie liberties]]'' with history would probably find them too big of a dealbreaker to even consider watching a low-budget direct-to-video sequel. Meanwhile, the people who liked the original ''WesternAnimation/{{Pocahontas}}'' clearly didn't consider those elements a dealbreaker, and would be rather snippy at the possibility of breaking up the original film's main couple.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The scene where Pocahontas gets arrested became this after her voice actress was arrested twice in November 2020.

to:

** The scene where Pocahontas gets arrested became this after her voice actress Irene Bedard was arrested twice in November 2020.2020: alleged domestic violence, and the second was for alleged disorderly conduct.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Trope is cut.


* FoeYay: Pocahontas and Ratcliffe partake in a very intimate ballroom dancing scene.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FanPreferredCouple: As discussed above, one of the main reasons this film is given the FanonDiscontinuity treatment is because fans of the first film wanted Pocahontas to end up with John Smith rather than John Rolfe.

to:

* FanPreferredCouple: As discussed above, one of the main reasons this film is given the FanonDiscontinuity treatment is because fans of the first film wanted Pocahontas to end up with John Smith rather than John Rolfe.Rolfe, even though her ending up with John Rolfe is historically accurate.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Not YMMV


* CanonDiscontinuity: Even Disney does not consider the sequel or its Pocahontas/Rolfe relationship canon. Disney continues to reaffirm Pocahontas/Smith as an official couple via merchandising, the theme parks and all other media.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CanonDiscontinuity Even Disney does not consider the sequel or its Pocahontas/Rolfe relationship canon. Disney continues to reaffirm Pocahontas/Smith as an official couple via merchandising, the theme parks and all other media.

to:

* CanonDiscontinuity CanonDiscontinuity: Even Disney does not consider the sequel or its Pocahontas/Rolfe relationship canon. Disney continues to reaffirm Pocahontas/Smith as an official couple via merchandising, the theme parks and all other media.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The scene when Pocahontas gets arrested becomes this because her voice actress got arrested twice in November 2020.

to:

** The scene when where Pocahontas gets arrested becomes became this because after her voice actress got was arrested twice in November 2020.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The scene when Pocahontas gets arrested becomes this because her voice actress got arrested twice in November 2020.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* FoeYay: Pocahontas and Ratcliffe partake in a very intimate ballroom dancing scene.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
In-universe examples don't count.


* ValuesDissonance: The clash of cultures was inevitable. However, it's played up a lot more in the sequel, where Pocahontas is shocked that a bear is chained up and calls the Europeans "Savages" for torturing an animal for personal entertainment (which naturally resonates with modern audiences).

to:

* ValuesDissonance: The clash of cultures was inevitable. However, it's played up a lot more in the sequel, where Pocahontas is shocked that a bear is chained up and calls the Europeans "Savages" for torturing an animal for personal entertainment (which naturally resonates with modern audiences).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Narm doesn't count if you have to compare it to something unrelated to make it sound silly


* {{Narm}}: There's John Rolfe's clenched teeth expression as Pocahontas is dragged away to the Tower of London. It's rather similar to a [[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Raticate's default expression.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
A native american is human, not something supernatural


* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: As one of the themes of this movie is exploring the less well-known aspects of the real Pocahontas's life, some viewers felt that the movie could have made good use of her tribe's tradition of [[IKnowYourTrueName a public name and a private name that is shared only with immediate family]]. It is argued that having Pocahontas tell John Rolf her true name, Matoaka, could have served as an organic part of their developing relationship and demonstrated a level of trust that she never showed John Smith.

to:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: As one of the themes of this movie is exploring the less well-known aspects of the real Pocahontas's life, some viewers felt that the movie could have made good use of her tribe's tradition of [[IKnowYourTrueName [[DoNotCallMePaul a public name and a private name that is shared only with immediate family]]. It is argued that having Pocahontas tell John Rolf her true name, Matoaka, could have served as an organic part of their developing relationship and demonstrated a level of trust that she never showed John Smith.

Added: 229

Changed: 6

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CanonDiscontinuity Even Disney does not consider the sequel or its Pocahontas/Rolfe relationship canon. Disney continues to reaffirm Pocahontas/Smith as an official couple via merchandising, the theme parks and all other media.



* ReplacementScrappy: John Rolfe for [[DieForOurShip coming between John Smith and Pocahontas]]. Of course, historically, Rolfe ''does'' marry Pocahontas, but fans of the Disney version think she belongs with Smith. [[CanonDiscontinuity Even Disney does not consider the sequel or its Pocahontas/Rolfe relationship canon. Disney continues to reaffirm Pocahontas/Smith as an official couple via merchandising, the parks and all other media.]]

to:

* ReplacementScrappy: John Rolfe for [[DieForOurShip coming between John Smith and Pocahontas]]. Of course, historically, Rolfe ''does'' marry Pocahontas, but fans of the Disney version think she belongs with Smith. [[CanonDiscontinuity Even Disney does not consider the sequel or its Pocahontas/Rolfe relationship canon. Disney continues to reaffirm Pocahontas/Smith as an official couple via merchandising, the theme parks and all other media.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* VindicatedByHistory: Originally one of the most hated Disney sequels, in later years it has received more praise for its themes of culture shock, making Pocahontas a more complex character, and making Ratcliffe an actually effective villain.

to:

* VindicatedByHistory: Originally one of the most hated Disney sequels, in later years it has received more praise for its themes of culture shock, making Pocahontas a more complex character, and making Ratcliffe an actually effective villain.

Added: 778

Changed: 109

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Divided as opinions on the movie are, many agree that Ratcliffe was a much more effective villain. He manages to use Pocahontas's FriendToAllLivingThings nature against her and nearly get her ''executed'', and is generally more threatening because as an aristocrat, he's almost all-powerful in London, Pocahontas now being in his domain -- and frighteningly can get away with it.

to:

** Divided as opinions on the movie are, many agree that Ratcliffe was a much more effective villain. He manages to use Pocahontas's FriendToAllLivingThings nature against her and nearly get her ''executed'', and is generally more threatening because as an aristocrat, he's almost all-powerful in London, Pocahontas now being in his domain -- and frighteningly can get away with it. Perhaps most importantly, he directly meets and interacts with Pocahontas this time, unlike the first movie.


Added DiffLines:

* TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot: As one of the themes of this movie is exploring the less well-known aspects of the real Pocahontas's life, some viewers felt that the movie could have made good use of her tribe's tradition of [[IKnowYourTrueName a public name and a private name that is shared only with immediate family]]. It is argued that having Pocahontas tell John Rolf her true name, Matoaka, could have served as an organic part of their developing relationship and demonstrated a level of trust that she never showed John Smith.


Added DiffLines:

* VindicatedByHistory: Originally one of the most hated Disney sequels, in later years it has received more praise for its themes of culture shock, making Pocahontas a more complex character, and making Ratcliffe an actually effective villain.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Moving to Artistic License History because actual bear baiting would be too gory for a kids movie, and the Hamlet thing is a minor detail.


* CriticalResearchFailure: While the first movie at least admitted to being a straight up legend rather than incredibly accurate, the sequel has its fair share of unintentional goofs. For example, in one of the musical numbers, Creator/WilliamShakespeare is seen being writing the script for ''Hamlet''... except that in the movie's timeline, Hamlet was already written and performed at least half a decade by then. There's also the fact that the King and his subjects are enjoying a bear baiting, which, instead of pitting dogs against a bear tied up to a stake (which admittedly would have been too graphic), is replaced with two jesters stabbing a bear with pitch forks. Not to mention complete misrepresentations of real life characters. Though, perhaps Shakespeare was revising ''Hamlet'', as the play, like any other of Shakespeare's plays had been revised through the years after his death.

Top