History WMG / FinalFantasyVIII

** Just, wrong. There are 0 similarities between both Hynes outside of their shared name. FFIII!Hyne did not have people to enslave (he was a court Magician not a king) and FFVIII!Hyne did not enslave his people, he created them cause he was lazy and found there were too many when he woke up so he culled them. He was also not defeated period (nevermind by children). When FFVIII!Hyne awoke he killed children to lower the amount of people, which caused the adults to rebel against him. When FFVIII!Hyne realized he was losing, he tried to make peace by offering the people half his power (though he tricked them) and then fled.

* Talking of Dollet, there's a restaurant called 'The Nautilus' perhaps named after the airship in III

*** ...how is "Squall and Rinoa being together ultimately proves destructive because Rinoa goes crazy from losing Squall and becomes the monster they fought to defeat, forcing Squall to kill her" in any way a better or happier ending than "Squall is on the road to getting over his issues and, yeah, Ultimecia will rise sometime in the future but we already know she'll lose because Squall and company will travel into the future to defeat her"?

*** First, those aren't moral issues, Thats being hung up on the fact Ulty still comes into being hasn't been avoided. Second you didn't solve anything other then change Nameless Girl from unspecified point in the future always becomes Ulty and wrecks the future to Crazy Rinoa always becomes Ulty and wrecks the future. Three, If you look up history of the world, It has been shaped by Evil or Good Sorceresses using their powers either for the benefit or detriment of mankind. Balamb was liberated from Dollet due to a Sorceress. Paramagic was developed due to a Sorceress. You are also assuming nothing ever happens between Rinoa and how many generations it takes to get to Ulty. A string of Adel 2.0s might come along and ruin any good will peaceful sorceress' like Edea and Rinoa worked for and plunged the world into World Sorceress War 2 thus the hate isn't stupidly forgotten, its completely justified. Ulty is still completely responsible for being enemy number one cause she caved to the hate which fits the irony of Ulty ultimately creates her own sworn enemy.
** Wait, what? What does Ultimania state ''exactly''? That Sorceresses have normal human lifespan, that Rinoa is not Ultimecia, or '''both'''? The last time [[@/SilentReverence I]] played the game and discussed it with a friend, we found interesting that at one point in the game Rinoa is encased in Esthar in a Adel-esque fashion ''because of the sorceress powers''. Then Squall took the path to rescue her and she made it a point during a later discussion (can't remember the point of the game) that in the end she expected him to do so. Had Squal ''not done so'' (as he originally wasn't), Rinoa could have been in suspended animation for whatever time is needed, developing a (justified) grudge against [=SEEDs=] and longing for the Knight Who Never Came. And there is a specific crisis point, close to the end of Disk 2, where Rinoa's mindset seems to be much alike what Ultimecia is stated to desire -- in particular, something about not wanting for time to pass if Squall was not around. Pretty much what one may feel trapped IN SPACE forever, seeing that Adel him/herself was mostly partly conscious most of the time (Disc 1). Long story short, ''Alternate Universe Rinoa''.

** I invoke DeathOfTheAuthor then. That the producers feel that's not what happened has no bearing an what "really" happened. We have a number of reasons that a person who wants to can believe that it is her: (1) Ultimecia using Griever, Squall's keychain as a GF, (2) an area where time is sufficiently compressed to allow a sorceror several generations later (among the complaints of this theory above) in a much smaller timeframe, (3) people with the actual ability to send others mentally back in time, (4) an extended cutscene where Squall is lost in a wasteland away from the others which ends with a series of images and Squall's dead body (that flurry of feathers when Rinoa embraces him, happens for phoenix down) before the ending is over, and (5) Ultimecia saying some really creepy stuff that seems to have no connection with anything if we merely think of her as an unknown villain. (5b) In fact, Ultimecia without this wrinkle becomes a GenericDoomsdayVillain with a FunetikAksent, which makes no sense given a game that had a great deal of effort spent on other characters. In fact, if one considers that this is in fact Rinoa, the above accent becomes all the more interesting since the later version of the boss [[AccentSlipUp drops the accent entirely]] in the quotes below ( implying this is her playacting to keep Squall from recognizing her). It's probably not Rinoa ''now'' (which would make this a StableTimeLoop), but rather an ''alternate dimension version'' of her. The quotes below of Ultimecia seem to suggest this, mentioning time as if at one point [[DeadAlternateCounterpart someone's time together ran out]]:

*** OP: <raises hand and opens mouth, promptly shuts it> .... {{Beat}} Hrm. That..... is a ''really'' good point. [[LogicBomb I'll get back to you on that one]]. EDIT: Rinultimecia herself had forgotten about the whole FutureMeScaresMe thing, the speech was [[FightingFromTheInside Edea]] ''[[PoorCommunicationKills mistaking]]'' Rinultimecia for an actual villain and trying in vain to orchestrate a HeroicSacrifice[=/=]TakingYouWithMe by painting a big red target on herself. Throwing her consciousness back in time used up a lot of Rinultimecia's concentration, so she wasn't able to adequately explain herself to Edea, and that was ''her'' making those remarks. Edea was genuinely under the impression that Rinultimecia was villainous, she was [[WellIntentionedExtremist trying to do what she thought was right as best she could in her situation]]. Yes, there were probably better ways of handling it, but by the time of the battle with Edea in Disc 2, Ultimecia is only just then reawakening. However, after seeing how [[NiceJobBreakingItHero royally Edea has screwed up her plans]], and also (re-)learning that Time Compression would be TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt, she decides on the SharingABody plan with her past self. However, as mentioned before, Rinultimecia unintentionally [[FutureMeScaresMe terrifies]] Rinoa, who promptly [[HeroicBSOD shuts]] [[AngstComa down]], which leads back to the original post.

Because why not? Based on our own world, we have every reason to assume that accents would different from continent to continent, or, really, from city to city. And I like British!Selphie.

during the flash back in Julia's room there are several cut-aways, this troper's going to throw the net out there that in one Laguna and Julia played a bit of hide the GF. then after Laguna went on his mission she found out she was pregnant and married General Caraway out of convenience, then passed away. in the ensuing months of being tended to by Raine, Laguna and her had another moment, resulting in Squall.

*** Unless the official records were changed because it'd be unbecoming for a general to have a bastard child. that said, EpilepticTrees start strobing.

So Let's start from the end as our Beginning. At the end of Final Fantasy VIII Ultimecia has successfully completed time compression. This allows her to exist in multiple places in the space time continuum. So she concocts a back up plan during this period in order to ensure her continued existence.

** This is a stretch.

** The Tower of Owen was being attacked, which is why the floating contient was in danger of falling, not because it "needed" maintence.

** Just because they are both made out of Crystal does not mean they are the same structure. Further more the Crystal Pillar came from the moon,, and at no point in FFIII is it suggested that the Crystal Tower can draw monsters from the moon.

** Firstly, it does not bear any resemblance to sorceress powers in general, never mind a "distinct" one. Secondly, 2 of the 3 powerful wizards that were mentioned are male.

** Just, wrong. There are 0 similarities between both Hynes outside of their shared name. FFIII!Hyne did not have people to enslave (he was a court Magician not a king) and FFVIII!Hyne did not enslave his people, he created them cause he was lazy and found there were too many when he woke up so he culled them. He was also not defeated period (nevermind by children). When FFVIII!Hyne awoke he killed children to lower the amount of people, which caused the adults to rebel against him. When FFVIII!Hyne realized he was losing, he tried to make peace by offering the people half his power (though he tricked them) and then fled.

** Is this world the only one where it's possible to be 8:15/3:40?

** No; no you can't. Even if they were remotely similar, would that mean the fact that the "Fire" spell is in both games also makes them take place in the same world?

** There is a Thief in FFI & FFVI. Connection confirmed?

** No she doesn't; Time Compression is her end game; she needs the power of other sorceresses in order to make it a reality.

** Wrong. Her castle exists in the future. The reason it appears to exist in a Void is because you are in the middle of Time Compression when you get there. You can leave her castle and see the effect TC is having on the world.

** And?

** Mysidia is a town located in FFII & FFIV; does that mean those two take place in the same world?

Just as she nears her goal, though, Rinultimecia suddenly realizes that Time Compression would be really, really bad - i.e., a NegativeSpaceWedgie of horrific proportions - and alters her plan at the last minute to using Junction Machine Ellone so that she can [[SharingABody Junction herself to her]] ''[[SharingABody original]]'' [[SharingABody self]]. However, [[FutureMeScaresMe Rinultimecia Terrifies Rinoa]], which results in something kind of like an AngstComa. This is when Rinoa's passed out/possessed in Disc Three. Rinultimecia has a stronger will, which means she can move their shared body around, but not enough so that she can [[UncannyValley move it fluidly]], resulting in the ZombieGait when Rinoa gets up and moves. However, because she can't communicate effectively with Squall or Rinoa to explain what she's doing, everything goes horribly wrong ''almost'' [[YankTheDogsChain when she gets the chance to reunite with her love]]. Only having what information is available to them, the FiveManBand surmises that Ultimecia is a villain who must be stopped, but [[TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt Time Compression]] is the only way that they can TimeTravel to the future and put her down. Once they achieve Time Compression and arrive to kill her, Rinultimecia starts down the road to a VillainousBreakdown. And hey, given that the man she spent who-knows-how-many-centuries trying to reunite with is now actively trying to execute her, [[JustifiedTrope can you really blame the poor girl]]? Still, she sends out her [[NonMaliciousMonster servants]] to escort the group to her so that she can try to explain in person. In an effort to try and discourage them from fighting, she sealed off their abilities, and the heroes took this completely the wrong way. Come the final battle, Rinultimecia has resorted to using force on the heroes so that she can make them listen to her and, if need be, [[MemeticMutation befriend]] [[DefeatMeansFriendship the hell out of]] [[Franchise/LyricalNanoha them]]. Normally, this would be a cakewalk, but she still remembers them as her friends from way, way back in the day, and can't bring herself to use the full extent of her power. The heroes, only knowing one side of the story, don't have such limitations.

In Ultimecia's time period, she spent a lot of time playing the games of the series. However, she believed that all of the games shared a single timeline and constantly tried to formulate one on the [[WMG/FinalFantasy series' Wild Mass Guessing page]] on Wiki/ThisVeryWiki. After seeing all of her EpilepticTrees Jossed, it just so happened that Ultimecia received her Sorceress power. The best thing she could think of doing with this power is to make a Final Fantasy chronology herself. [[BreakingTheFourthWall Ultimecia then added this WMG: The entire series makes sense because Ultimecia achieved Time Compression]]. And so she began compressing time to make her theory come true.

** Just, wrong. There are 0 similarities between both Hynes outside of their shared name. FFIII!Hyne did not have people to enslave (he was a court Magician not a king) and FFVIII!Hyne did not enslave his people, he created them cause he was lazy and found there were too many when he woke up so he culled them. He was also not defeated period (nevermind by children). When FFVIII!Hyne awoke he killed children to lower the amount of people, which caused the adults to rebel against him.

** Just, wrong. There are 0 similarities between both Hynes outside of their shared name. FFIII!Hyne did not have people to enslave (he was a court Magician not a king) and FFVIII!Hyne did not enslave his people (he created them cause he was lazy) and found there we too many when he woke up so he culled them. He was also not defeated period (nevermind by children). When FFVIII!Hyne awoke he killed children to lower the amount of people, which caused the adults to rebel against him.

** or the crystals turned unto the lifestream and the world of FFIII is the same as FFVII. It's easy to make connections when we can make anything happen.

** There is Thief in FFI & FFVI. Connection confirmed.

*** It's not irrelevant at all, the response is. The point was "there is no orphanage reveal in FFIII", saying enough time has passed where the building wouldn't exist anymore in no way addresses this.

** Wrong. Her castle exists in the future. The reason it appears to exist in a Void is because you are in the middle of Time Compression when you get there.

** Why is it that "enough time has passed between both games where anything that would disprove this theory changed", yet somehow the name of an already ancient and forgotten airship is not lost to time.

* Ultimecia's castle appears to reside in an interdimensional Void, similar to that of the Dark World.

Well, it ''would'' explain all of the FoeYay she had with Squall in ''Dissidia''...

Addendum: This also explains the FoeYay in Dissidia - because of the war of the gods, Ultimecia has forgotten the ''exact'' nature of her feelings about Squall, but still remembers that they were quite strong, and would act accordingly... if only she could remember if it were [[BelligerentSexualTension love or hate]]....

[[WMG:Quistis Trepe is [[{{Asexuality}} Asexual]]]]

More specifically, the magazine is based off of the "draw magic" mechanic that is well documented in-game, drawing off of the user's physical strength to power itself. It means these guns can never run out (or at least needing a small recharge after firing), but does make them less powerful than conventional ammunition. Regular ammunition still exists, as seen in Irvine's limit break, but is much harder to produce and only used in emergencies.

More specifically, the magazine is based off of the "draw magic" mechanic that is well documented in-game, drawing off of the user's physical strength to power itself. It means these guns can never run out (or at least needing a small recharge after firing), but does make then less powerful than conventional ammunition. Regular ammunition still exists, as seen in Irvine's limit break, but is much harder to produce and only used in emergencies.

[[LikeFatherLikeSon Just like with Laguna]], Squall became nervous when Rinoa decided to talk to him. Said cramp also played a part in the early mistakes he made during their dance.

He is adamant that SEED's main goal is to plant flowers throughout the world.

The magic that can only be passed down to women says she's a woman. She has nothing to prove to anyone; might as well [[WalkingShirtlessScene traipse around with her tiddies out.]] Saves a fortune on hormone treatments and surgeries, too!

And she will be the most [[TheComputerIsACheatingBastard unfair bitch]] outside of anything the original or even whatever new rules the remake throws at you. To even be worthy of challenging her, you have [[GottaCatchThemAll to get each and every last Triple Triad card]], and win against each and every last person across the Remake.

And she will be the most [[TheComputerIsACheatingBastard unfair bitch]] outside of anything the original or even whatever new rules the remake throws at you. To even be worthy of challenging her, you have to have [[GottaCatchThemAll to get each and every last Triple Triad card]], and win against each and every last person across the Remake.

This theory also explains Selphie's violent streaks: as a Trabian, she grew up in a failed state full of warlords where rocket launchers are the accepted way of resolving political discussions. Selphie is not a borderline psychopath, she's just a native of [=FF8's=] counterpart to Afghanistan or Somali (on top of being a war orphan like the rest of Edea's orphanage gang).

* Nobody mentioned this yet, but the city of Dollet used to be a massive empire that has since fallen. In it's similar location on the FF3 map, the largest kingdom in the world can be found.

Okay, try to bear with me. I found this one on Website/GameFAQs. So, Squall and Co. defeat Ultimecia and are hailed as heroes. Now people know that there will be a evil sorceress in the future called Ultimecia. Eventually, this information is lost and found, twisted, and so forth, and people start hunting down sorceresses. This keeps going on and on, like witchhunts. Eventualy, one sorceress snaps: "God damnit, [[WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds I haven't done anything yet but]] ''still'' you claim I will kill millions of people! [[MakeYourOwnVillain FINE]]! [[ThenLetMeBeEvil LET'S KILL THEN]]!" So she starts killing and BECOMES Ultimecia trough her actions. Now, she knows she will be killed, but figures: "Screw you fate, I will win" and goes on with her Time Compression plan. She refuses to acknowledge that history can't be changed and we get our game. This creates a stable time loop, where Ultimecia is defeated, sorceresses are persecuted and eventually one of them snaps, creating Ultimecia.

The reason why Squall is so indifferent is because he's figured out the secret to ultimate power in the world of FF8: playing cards. Actual training is for losers.

* Following this to its logical conclusion, Squall is the FF8 world's [[Franchise/YuGiOh King of Games]].

*** [[SincerityMode I'll take your word for it]], but it'd still be nice to see a link to some WordOfGod on that. Also, it could be that there was no MindControl involved, just [[BatmanGambit normal manipulation]] - Seifer wanted to be a romantic hero, and what would fit that role better than being TheChampion to a [[MostDefinitelyNotAVillain non-villainous]] Sorceress? We know he's had authority problems with the Garden faculty, and we've also seen NORG's lackeys prevent [[TheHeadmaster Cid]] from trying to comfort and reassure Seifer. Even without his memories, if Edea told Seifer that the Garden faculty were evil - and also reminded him that she was once his Matron, well then..... EvenBadMenLoveTheirMamas.

This theory also explains Selphie's violent streaks: as a Trabian, she grew up in a failed state full of warlords where rocket launchers are the accepted way of resolving political discussions. Selphie is not a borderline psychopath, she's just a native of FF8's counterpart to Afghanistan or Somali (on top of being a war orphan like the rest of Edea's orphanage gang).

This theory also explains Selphie's violent streaks: as a Trabian, she grew up in a failed state full of warlords where rocket launchers are the accepted way of resolving political discussions. Selphie is not a borderline psychopath, she's just a native of FF8's counterpart to Afghanistan or Somali.

This theory also explains Selphie's violent streaks: as a Trabian, she grew up in a failed state full of warlords where rocket launchers are the accepted way of resolving political discussions.

Trabia is mentioned in Ultimania as a poor, non-aggressive country with a small population. However, in game we do not see any country or any semblance of civilization there outside of the bombed Garden. We also see a big honking Lunar Cry crater there. The survivors in Trabia Garden grieve their losses, but they do not seem to be shell-shocked: they are optimistic and cope with their traumas surprisingly well. The motto of Trabia Garden is "Take care of yourself".

It seems to be that Trabia is a failed state where tragedy is a common thing and the local inhabitants adjusted to it. The Lunar Cry crater hints at what happened there: Trabia was a target of Estharian aggression during Adel's wars, and they tested Lunatic Pandora as a superweapon on the unsuspecting country. Since then, there is no stable Trabian government, the region is in the state of anarchy for 17 years. Trabia Garden students are taught self-sufficiency because there's no one to rely upon in the forsaken wasteland that is Trabia.

By manufacturing hats that are vessels for fanatical Nazis she brings fourth a time loop that allows her to slowly but surely compress time in our universe to a single point. As events in history repeat themselves, and patterns from the past emerge surely we are seeing the work of an ancient time witch being enacted!