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** Quoth Richard Pryor about ''Film/LogansRun'' being a dystopian future lacking in POC - "white folks aren't planning for us to be here". But if we want to apply real life logic to this future, Panem is North America, and the script for the first movie says something about 300 years in the future, so that's about nine generations or so from today. America had immigration quotas for Asians especially until the 1960s, meaning that the majority of Asian-Americans in the country today are only second or third generation, with family and connections back in Asia. So when things started falling apart in Panem, they might have had somewhere they could emigrate to, like how many Jews got the eff out of Germany and Austria once Nazism was on the rise. Those who didn't stayed and died in the rebellion, with few survivors then having children with people of other races. Indigenous races like Native Americans are often in their own communities and reserves, and likely would be the first to be killed en masse in such a conflict. Latinos may have emigrated further south, since again a lot of them might have had family or connections who only moved to the US a couple of generations ago. African-Americans who are descended from slaves wouldn't be able to trace their family too much, and so wouldn't have obvious connections they could emigrate to as the world started falling apart, hence more black people than any other of the non-white races in the movie (and Rue's mother is shown to be darker than her daughters, so Rue is likely mixed race, as indeed her actress is). The white folks probably wouldn't have had much reason to emigrate, since things largely benefitted or didn't inconvenience them at first. The POC would be the first targets or scapegoats in taking away rights or being killed in uprisings - being part of a marginalised community means you're more likely to try and challenge the system before anyone else and then be killed to make an example of. In ''The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes'' you do see a lot more people of different races even in the Capital itself, giving an implication that a lot of the generation seen in the first film are mixed race to some degree - Snow is a grandfather by the first film, so that's an additional two generations. So while it is simply MonochromeCasting on behalf of the filmmakers, there is some plausibility to seeing lots more white people in Panem compared to diversity in America today. The fact that the setting in the story is majority white set after a violent uprising that turned the world into a dystopia definitely says something.
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** Don't forget that we see things from Katniss' perspective, she could have misunderstood what was going on or missed a previous/following exercise. It's been a while since I've read the books, so I don't remember the exact description, but the goal of the game could also have been to help her catch on the differences between plants, by making her look at them one after another while comparing them.
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** I want to add that Katniss isn't all-knowing and that while she thinks that Finnick and Johanna have been working since they were children, they could have simply be taught the skill without outright working, or in an apprenticeship of sorts, while working in the mines doesn't need any particular training. She could only be extrapolating from their ease and her own imagination of what's going on in other districts that people from District 4 are on a boat from birth, those from D6 cut wood as soon as they walk etc... Whilt it's not what's happening in real life.
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** It doesn't make sense, why would they do that? To remove disadvantages? Unless the pregnancy is advanced, it won't affect the Game itself, aside from the added angst. Plus, terminating a late pregnancy is essentially giving birth, and you don't recover from that in the short time between the reaping and the start of the games. And it won't fit their storytelling, because either the pregnancy isn't noticeable and it likely can be hidden for the game's duration or it is noticeable, and everyone already saw it at the reaping, terminating won't change anything.
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** Katniss mentions at one point that only people over 18 are allowed to work in the mines because [[EvenEvilHasStandards even the Capitol considers them too dangerous for children]].
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** Building on the statement above, maybe there are people out there, but because technology has regressed maybe they just can't find each other.


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** There are several maps which show Panem is spanning all of the USA or North America, albiet with different coastlines, from both fan-made and from other official sources. The stuff shown about the Districts and Capitol shows they at the very least control territory in the Midwest and possibly the former US Pacific states. However, I personally thought this was all territory the Capitol ''claims'' as its own while in reality the territory they actual control might just be limtied to a few enclaves in the middle of the districts and maybe close to ideal locations for work, and there really just is no one outside the Capitol's controlled territories that isn't 13.


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** I personally always thought that the arenas were actually located in the districts, in areas where the Capitol would prohibit people from going to. Maybe now there's the reason why the Districts on the maps are so doggone large...


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** ''The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes'' addresses it, and it appears that they had already tried to starve the Capitol out and it failed after the Capitol broke through the siege and District 13 seceeded. My guess is that Coin didn't do it because A: she wanted to seize power as soon as possible, B: Coin wanted to kill off opposition to her future rule during this assault, and C: perhaps she feared the Capitol had some kind of preparatory measures and perhaps that they'd just outright destroy Panem to ensure 13 couldn;t have it.


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** I have no idea what you are talking about. The Wolf Mutts didn't do any surgery on any case and are probably too dumb to be able to do complex orders.

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** My guess is the same way 13 exists and has such a giant arsenal: they made it on their own or inherited it from the Dark Days.



** The books don't go into detail about specific weapons used, but ''The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes'' mentions that the standard Peacekeeper’s rifle could fire a hundred rounds before reloading at the time. I have no idea how a weapon of that description is considered a rifle since most weapons of that magazine size are light machine guns (like the M249 SAW, Ultimax 100 or some Bren Gun variants), but that's what we have. Personally I headcanon them to just use M-16s since Panem evolved from the ruins of the USA.



** hover planes (VTOLs) are more usefull in the sense that they don't require runways / catapults.

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** hover Hover planes (VTOLs) are more usefull in the sense that they don't require runways / catapults.
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** But all she’s doing is matching pictures. There’s nothing on the activity that even identifies what the plants are or what their uses are, it just looks like a regular speed picture matching activity. There’s no indication that she’s even knowledgeable on plants and their properties.

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** I can see how it foreshadows her death. But in the specific context of ''how it trains her for the Games'' it just seems unnecessary - all she’s doing is matching pictures. There’s nothing on the activity that even identifies what the plants are or what plants, let alone giving information about their uses are, it just looks like properties or uses. How is a regular speed picture matching activity. There’s no indication that she’s even knowledgeable on plants and their properties.activity supposed to give her any form of survival training?
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** There’s nothing on the activity that even identifies what the plants are or what their uses are, it just looks like a regular speed picture matching test. There’s nothing that indicates it would give information on how to identify a nightlock plant (or any plant for that matter), or how what properties it has.

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** But all she’s doing is matching pictures. There’s nothing on the activity that even identifies what the plants are or what their uses are, it just looks like a regular speed picture matching test. activity. There’s nothing no indication that indicates it would give information she’s even knowledgeable on how to identify a nightlock plant (or any plant for that matter), or how what properties it has.plants and their properties.
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** There’s nothing on the activity that even identifies what the plants are or what their uses are, it just looks like a regular speed picture matching test. There’s nothing that indicates it would give information on how to identify a nightlock plant (or any plant for that matter), or how what properties it has.

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** It adds some extra context to her eventual death by eating the nightlock berries. There's an interpretation that she knew fully well what the berries were, pretended she didn't and ate them anyway, knowing she had little chance of surviving. And possibly even pulled a HeroicSacrifice to let Katniss and Peeta know what to look out for.
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[[folder: Madge's mockingjay pin]]
* Did Madge giving Katniss the pin for purely sentimental reasons or was Katniess already being set up (after she volunteered) as the mockingjay and someone nudged Madge to do so, to set up everything that happened (and it was just sheer luck that Peeta was reaped with her?).
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*** It’s the other way around, assuming that the 12 year old and the 18 year old are each signing up for the first time, and each are signing up for a single tessera. They each get the same allocation of grain and oil for the year. The 18 year old will have one extra entry in the reaping that year. The 12 year old will have an extra entry in the reaping that year, and in each of the following six years.
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** I get the impression that the Capitol doesn’t actually use coal, as they have District 5 to generate power for them, and Snow had no qualms about obliterating District 12. District 12’s industry, at most, serves the Districts, not the Capitol. Quotas are increased in response to misbehaviour, not need. It’s possible that children aren’t allowed to work in the coal mines because there is a limit to the number of mining jobs, so employing a child would take away a job from an adult. Keeping the adults working means being able to keep a close eye on their movements.
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** The tessera system serves the dual purpose of sowing discontent between slightly more prosperous families who can get by without their children taking tesserae and families who rely on tesserae for survival, and victim-blaming, in the sense that when a child with tesserae entries is reaped, the perception is going to be that they’re dying because their parents can’t provide for them. Had Katniss’ name been the one drawn instead of Prim’s, there would be a 75% chance that the slip drawn was one of her tesserae entries.
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** I’d say that the “talents” are partly to give the Capitol audience something to ooh and ahh over, and partly to stir up resentment towards Victors by District citizens. People who practically have to work themselves to death to put food on the table are unlikely to think kindly of those who have the wealth and leisure to spend their time painting or playing the flute or arranging flowers.


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** Katniss would have been the only tribute sent into the arena pregnant who didn’t know that she would be subject to the reaping. Peeta’s story placed the fictional baby’s conception before the announcement of the Quarter Quell twist. In the eyes of the Capitol, Katniss could reasonably have assumed that it was safe for her to have a baby. With a girl of reaping age going into the arena pregnant in an ordinary Hunger Games, I doubt that there would have been much sympathy for her because she would be seen as having courted the risk by becoming pregnant while subject to the reaping. Any suggestion of excusing pregnant girls was probably dismissed on the grounds that this would incentivise pregnancy to escape the reaping.
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[[folder: Plant matching activity]]
* What ''was'' the point of the activity Foxface did when she was matching images of plants? Everything else we see done in the training would've had some sort of use in the Games, but this just seems like a regular brain teaser. She's not identifying what the plants are called, or matching the plants to any uses (whether medicinal or if they're edible or not).
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* Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that a lot of fans are focusing so much on the romance aspect of the story, even though it's not the main plot? At least it made sense with ''Literature/{{Twilight}}'' since the romance was the focal point of the book, but why do the same with ''Literature/TheHungerGames''?

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* Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that a lot of fans are focusing so much on the romance aspect of the story, even though it's not the main plot? At least it made sense with ''Literature/{{Twilight}}'' ''Literature/TheTwilightSaga'' since the romance was the focal point of the book, but why do the same with ''Literature/TheHungerGames''?
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* Syndrome from WesternAnimation/TheIncredibles puts it best too, “When everyone’s special, no one is.”

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* Syndrome from WesternAnimation/TheIncredibles Franchise/TheIncredibles puts it best too, “When everyone’s special, no one is.”
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*** The problem with this is, if you make a list of every games and every known winner including background characters, it doesn't add up. Game #50 and onwards to #75, most of the catching fire victors can be accounted for or can be placed somewhere within this range, especially within the film when many of the unnamed victors from the other districts more or less default to being in their mid twenties to mid fourties. When you take all that into account, there ends up only being about a half dozen games where the winner was truly unknown. Even if you made all these unknown games have career victors, this only gives them a miniscule head over other disctricts.
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*** We don't witness the scene, so it's open to AlternativeCharacterInterpretation. There is still an open possibility that Peeta did ''not'' kill the girl at all, but found her near death and comforted and held her hand as she died, perhaps then wiping some of her blood from her wounds onto his knife to fool the Careers into thinking he'd killed her.
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** I don't think any of the people you mentioned are confirmed in canon to have living family members (other than Castor and Pollux being related to each other), but Plutarch and Fulvia at the very least knew what was coming and could conceivably have taken steps to get any of their family members out ahead of time.
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** Early in Catching Fire, it's noted that Katniss's official "household" is now her home in Victor's Village, while her old home is the official household assigned to her mother and Prim. Presumably any other members of Katniss's family lived in different assigned households, and I bet you're only allowed to sign up for tesserae for people in your own household.



* In short, there is no way to have everyone's odds be equal. It's set up in that way: poorer families are more likely to be reaped because richer families are more content with the system as it is (why rebel against something that isn't bad for you?). Families with more members, and thus more angst, are more likely to be reaped (and it is stated that the siblings of Victors are still fair game: there are two siblings in 75th) aand, more importantly, the odd LOOK to be in the favour of the younger children because if you exclude tessarae a 12 year old has less chances to be picked than an 18 year old. This makes it appear that the Capitol is trying to give the kids a chance, really just amping up the drama when a young child is reaped. And, let's face it, your odds mean NOTHING. Prim's name is in there once with 20 Katniss names, even without the rest of the female reapable population. She is reaped. Peeta, who probably didn't take tessarae because there's food to waste in his house, had 5 names (probably?) against Gale's 42 and the rest of the male reapable population. All statistics and odds are semantics: you can have odds of 1000000000:1 but there's still that one chance it'll happen.

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* In short, there is no way to have everyone's odds be equal. It's set up in that way: poorer families are more likely to be reaped because richer families are more content with the system as it is (why rebel against something that isn't bad for you?). Families with more members, and thus more angst, are more likely to be reaped (and it is stated that the siblings of Victors are still fair game: there are two siblings in 75th) aand, and, more importantly, the odd LOOK to be in the favour of the younger children because if you exclude tessarae a 12 year old has less chances to be picked than an 18 year old. This makes it appear that the Capitol is trying to give the kids a chance, really just amping up the drama when a young child is reaped. And, let's face it, your odds mean NOTHING. Prim's name is in there once with 20 Katniss names, even without the rest of the female reapable population. She is reaped. Peeta, who probably didn't take tessarae because there's food to waste in his house, had 5 names (probably?) against Gale's 42 and the rest of the male reapable population. All statistics and odds are semantics: you can have odds of 1000000000:1 but there's still that one chance it'll happen.


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* Well...I had a horrible thought. If the Capitol doesn't think anything of throwing pregnant teenagers into the arena in the first place...would they really think anything of forcibly terminating those teenagers' pregnancies ''before'' they threw them in?
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** 1) Starving people aren't the most logical and rational people you'll come across, and 2) the people in the Districts seem to think of "odds" as something equivalent to fate or [[StarWars the Force]]. Katniss herself thinks Prim's odds ''weren't'' in her favor because she got picked. No, I don't think these people would have spotted that "loophole", not in a million years.

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** 1) Starving people aren't the most logical and rational people you'll come across, and 2) the people in the Districts seem to think of "odds" as something equivalent to fate or [[StarWars [[Franchise/StarWars the Force]]. Katniss herself thinks Prim's odds ''weren't'' in her favor because she got picked. No, I don't think these people would have spotted that "loophole", not in a million years.



* You can have one name in your 1st year. Another is added each year, but they're cumulative so by 18 you have seven names in the pot before you even start tessarae. This means that, statistically, older kids are more likely to be reaped. If you have tessarae you can add one name for yourself and one for each member of your family. So a 12 year old with their one name, one for themselves and one for each parent and three siblings has the same odds as an eighteen year old who never took tessarae. A 12 year old with one name, one for themselves, two parents and FOUR ssiblings has higher odds than that 18 year old. But these are still cumulative. If you want tessarae next year, all the names from last year are aadded THEN your new one for another birthday, another for your tessarae, another five for your siblings. An eighteen year old with five family members who always took tessarae therefore has incredibly high odds. Because there is always a different pool of people to reap (new 12 year olds in, 19 year olds out) and they have unequal families you can't say that everyone has the same odds if they all take their tessarae.

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* You can have one name in your 1st year. Another is added each year, but they're cumulative so by 18 you have seven names in the pot before you even start tessarae. This means that, statistically, older kids are more likely to be reaped. If you have tessarae you can add one name for yourself and one for each member of your family. So a 12 year old with their one name, one for themselves and one for each parent and three siblings has the same odds as an eighteen year old who never took tessarae. A 12 year old with one name, one for themselves, two parents and FOUR ssiblings has higher odds than that 18 year old. But these are still cumulative. If you want tessarae next year, all the names from last year are aadded added THEN your new one for another birthday, another for your tessarae, another five for your siblings. An eighteen year old with five family members who always took tessarae therefore has incredibly high odds. Because there is always a different pool of people to reap (new 12 year olds in, 19 year olds out) and they have unequal families you can't say that everyone has the same odds if they all take their tessarae.



* Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that a lot of fans are focusing so much on the romance aspect of the story, even though it's not the main plot? At least it made sense with ''Literature/{{Twilight}}'' since the romance was the focal point of the book, but why do the same with Literature/TheHungerGames?

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* Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that a lot of fans are focusing so much on the romance aspect of the story, even though it's not the main plot? At least it made sense with ''Literature/{{Twilight}}'' since the romance was the focal point of the book, but why do the same with Literature/TheHungerGames?''Literature/TheHungerGames''?



*** Yes. Also, the Hunger Games trilogy contains a lot of love, but very little erotic. Many media people may have confused erotic with love.

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*** Yes. Also, the Hunger Games ''Hunger Games'' trilogy contains a lot of love, but very little erotic. Many media people may have confused erotic with love.



* This troper often wonders how this series managed to avoid the MoralGuardians. ''Literature/BattleRoyale'' had a similar premise, and it's American remake has been put on hold because of that (and VirginiaTech).
** They didn't. The Hunger Games trilogy is indeed [[https://ew.com/article/2012/04/09/the-hunger-games-ala-challenged-books/ among the most challenged books]].

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* This troper often wonders how this series managed to avoid the MoralGuardians. ''Literature/BattleRoyale'' had a similar premise, and it's its American remake has been put on hold because of that (and VirginiaTech).
Virginia Tech).
** They didn't. The Hunger Games ''Hunger Games'' trilogy is indeed [[https://ew.com/article/2012/04/09/the-hunger-games-ala-challenged-books/ among the most challenged books]].



** Before I read the books, I was skeptical as to whether I would enjoy them going off the dark premise, but it helps that killing people in the Games is never presented as something easy or fun from Katniss's perspective. In both of the Games she's in, she only kills out of self-defense or mercy, never in cold blood. She becomes a bit more ruthless in Mockingjay, but her actions are mostly justified and she still suffers severe PTSD. I'm not very familiar with Battle Royale, but the major draw of Hunger Games is in watching Panem overthrow the corrupt government and the system of the Games, not in the entertainment value of the Games and the violence that goes along with them. However, it is still impressive that there hasn't been much outcry to ban them from people who haven't bothered to read the books (along the lines of people wanting to ban the Harry Potter books because they supposedly teach children witchcraft).
** Well books simply don't have to get past the moral guardians in most cases. As for the movies I think the big difference is that while the Hunger Games does have children it seems to focus on teens that we mostly identify as young adults and not specifically children. Also I think an argument could be made that the Hunger Games makes a stronger effort at a story and Battle Royale at times slips straight into the Saw styled violence porn.

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** Before I read the books, I was skeptical as to whether I would enjoy them going off the dark premise, but it helps that killing people in the Games is never presented as something easy or fun from Katniss's perspective. In both of the Games she's in, she only kills out of self-defense or mercy, never in cold blood. She becomes a bit more ruthless in Mockingjay, ''Mockingjay'', but her actions are mostly justified and she still suffers severe PTSD. I'm not very familiar with Battle Royale, ''Battle Royale'', but the major draw of Hunger Games is in watching Panem overthrow the corrupt government and the system of the Games, not in the entertainment value of the Games and the violence that goes along with them. However, it is still impressive that there hasn't been much outcry to ban them from people who haven't bothered to read the books (along the lines of people wanting to ban the Harry Potter ''Harry Potter'' books because they supposedly teach children witchcraft).
** Well books simply don't have to get past the moral guardians in most cases. As for the movies I think the big difference is that while the Hunger Games ''Hunger Games'' does have children it seems to focus on teens that we mostly identify as young adults and not specifically children. Also I think an argument could be made that the Hunger Games ''Hunger Games'' makes a stronger effort at a story and Battle Royale ''Battle Royale'' at times slips straight into the Saw ''Saw'' styled violence porn.



*** See, that doesn't hold up for Haymitch's tactical perception of Katt to the crowd, one of the few things I can agree he did well: As he says himself, the idea of Peeta attributing affection for Katt was to make her desirable to those in The Capitol. That was the entire point to their plan. A lot of rich boys in the capitol, if the plan worked, would be interested in Katt and wangint to support her with tributes and boons.

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*** See, that doesn't hold up for Haymitch's tactical perception of Katt to the crowd, one of the few things I can agree he did well: As he says himself, the idea of Peeta attributing affection for Katt was to make her desirable to those in The Capitol. That was the entire point to their plan. A lot of rich boys in the capitol, if the plan worked, would be interested in Katt and wangint want to support her with tributes and boons.
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**Actually, D-13 is the ''only'' District to ''not'' participate in the games in any way shape or form, which is because of somethin' that happened during the "Dark Days" and a treaty where they're more so an independent nation. From what's implied, it's a lottery type of system, though the Districts the provide the most for the Capitol and the Peacekeepers provide the fewest Tributes for the games.

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*** When it comes to live-action adaptations, actors get cast ''close enough'' to the characters' descriptions. As far as ethnicities go, with the vague enough descriptions, they could be any ethnicity, as skin color and eyes can imply anything. To answer a point of about accents, well, like skintones, those aren't too indicitive either, considering how this takes place in some distant far off time.

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*** When it comes to live-action adaptations, actors get cast ''close enough'' to the characters' descriptions. As far as ethnicities go, with the vague enough descriptions, they could be any ethnicity, as skin color and eyes can imply anything. To answer a point of about accents, well, like skintones, those aren't too indicitive indicative either, considering how this takes place in some distant far off far-off time.


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***^Since the Everdeens did hunt, perhaps, some parts of the animal (like the skin and some of the guts) were fashioned into condoms (Truth in TV, actually).

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