History Headscratchers / KnightsOfTheOldRepublic

** Master Dorak explains that the majority of the dark Force users in Revan's Sith Empire are former Jedi who had previously followed Revan and Malak in the Mandalorian Wars and continued to serve them after they found the Star Forge. The minority of them are Jedi who, as Kreia explains in KotOR II, were captured over the course of the war and purposely corrupted by Revan through dark teachings and energies from the Trayus Academy on Malachor V, which Revan was using as a secret training facility for his forces.

*** Gameplay and Story Segregation. I'm sure that lore-wise, she wouldn't go around showing everyone her lightsaber and would try to cover her face or just not make eye contact with any of the Sith soldiers.

*** That's the whole ''point'', you shouldn't change based on how many Dark Side points you have, you should change based on how many powers you use that could effectively alter your appearance. In [=KotOR II=], it's possible to use only Light Side powers, not neutral or Dark Side, and with the right conversational choices you can ''still'' look like you've been using force lightning for half a decade before you even get to the first planet! Even if handwaved with the Force altering the person's looks to fit their personality, it should be much more gradual, with the change happening more quickly based on how good or evil one is, not more extensively. EvilIsSexy Sith can convince people of things without even having to resort to force hypnosis, why must [=KotOR=] be otherwise?
*** You're asking a lot from a relatively simple old-school RPG system. And keep in mind that to go * all the way* Dark Side, you pretty much have to reveal yourself as the kind of person who doesn't give two shits what people think of you and actively enjoy having people dislike you (you know, doing stuff like insulting people, kicking them in the groin and laughing about it), so the appearance change is in-character for you. Remember that EvilIsSexy Sith are almost invariably * lesser* Sith.

** Simple: The galaxy is a big place. Even as a galactic government fighting a galactic war, the Republic's reach only extends so far (Remember how in Episode 1 Tatooine has slaves despite the Republic's anti slavery laws?). Chances are on planets like Coruscant propaganda, shortages, troop presence, and maybe drafting are common. But if a planet is in a remote location, has a low population, and isn't considered important or part of the "civilized galaxy", it's likely the war has little impact on daily life. Of the planets you visit (and keep in mind you only see a small part of them):

** As for concerns about the Star Map being on an over run world, they DO go to planets with a heavy Sith presence (Korriban and Manaan), they just try to draw little attention. And most importantly, MALAK DOESN'T KNOW REVAN IS ALIVE. He doesn't find out until after Revan kills Calo Nord, and in fact his knowledge of the Star Maps may be why Darth Bandon and later Malak is able to track Revan down.

* How? How are Taris's laws allowed to exist in the Republic? Their FantasticRacism is sickening by Republic standards and yet they're (until the occupation) part of a multi-species democracy that embraces the unity of the galaxy's races. How are their laws even allowed to be in the books, never mind eagerly enforced? Even moreso, how does the Republic even allow the treatment of the Outcasts to continue? It's explicitly stated that the only two punishments for crime on Taris are either death or exile to the undercity, and that the convicted's ''children'' aren't allowed to return to the surface despite having nothing to do with the crimes of their ancestors. Why hasn't the Republic ever come in and put a moratorium on any of these before the Sith occupation?

** It's highly unlikely Nord knew Revan's personality had been replaced given that Saul Karath and Malak both react with surprise when they hear Revan doesn't have his memories. It may be WildMassGuessing but perhaps he gave Karath a description of Revan and his companions, and Karath recognised Revan. Granted that would suggest Karath knew Revan's appearance before Revan donned his mask. Given that Nord doesn't mention any mention of Revan's true identity when he confronts him later in the game, it would also imply that Malak did not tell him who he was hunting.

** The Selkath aren't pacifists, they're politically neutral. It's not that they won't get involved in a fight, it's that they wont get involved in ''this'' fight. They strictly enforce the peace because their planet is not at war and they'd like to keep it that way.
* What's the point of the final duel with Malak? Yeah I guess we need our final boss fight, but if you think about it the fight isn't necessary. Bastila has either been turned away from the Dark Side or killed, and the Republic is about to rain holy hell down on the Star Forge (in the Light Side ending anyway), so just let Malak sit in his room while everything explodes. Malak says he can drain all those Jedi corpses to gain the upper hand against Revan, so why take the chance of fighting him directly? Okay so Malak obviously won't just sit there and let himself get blown up...he'll escape before that happens, and the game mentions that. But who cares? Without the Star Forge his war effort is crippled, and the next time Revan meets up with him he'll have no Jedi bodies to drain.

* If the galaxy is in the middle of this enormous war, why aren't there more visible signs of the conflict? The Czerka corporation seems to be conducting business as usual in the middle of this enormous war. There seem to be plenty of military-aged men on Dantooine and Tatooine who have not been drafted. There seems to be no shortage of weaponry available in ordinary stores, as if there were no particular demand for weaponry in the rest of the galaxy. In fact, there don't seem to be any of the shortages that normally occur in wartime. How come every time you land at a new planet, you don't see troops boarding ships, or munitions and other supplies being loaded onto transports, and so forth? Why no ads posted anywhere for war bonds? Why is it that Bastila and her mother seem to think that it will be pretty simple for Mrs. Shan to travel from Tatooine to Coruscant in the middle of this war? For that matter, how come there never seems to be any concern in the game that some of the Starmap worlds might be overrun by Sith forces before Revan's party can reach them? After all, Malak knows where they are and has every incentive to capture or destroy them.

* okay, ''massive'' FridgeLogic moment here, but if most aliens like Wookies and Rodians and so on all have subtitles because Revan and Exile can understand them, why doesn't T3 have subtiles when it's stated that the Exile learned how to understand astro droids?

** The player character understands the meaning but not the words



* This is more about the out-of-game universe than an in-universe headscratcher, but.... Why does everyone make such a big deal about Revan being reprogrammed by the Jedi Council, when he was in fact reprogrammed BY THE EMPEROR of the true Sith previous to his rampage in the Republic (and subsequent Jedi-reprogramming)? In a way, it actually makes Kreia's statement that the Jedi Council simply "stripped away the surface and allowed the true Revan to emerge again" make sense. Especially if you buy into the idea that a light-sided Revan in-game is canonical. So, in my mind, they weren't doing the right thing by what they knew, but in the grand scheme of things, they were.

* Why is that when you rescue Bastila after the swoop race on Taris, she initially doesn't recognize you? How is it possible, considering that a) you are force-bonded to her, and b) she knows you are really [[spoiler:Revan]]? Even if she of course doesn't want to tell you those things, why doesn't she just immediately say, "Oh, you're that person I deliberately selected for this mission right before we left"?
** She ''does'' recognize you pretty much instantly. Watch the scene again. First she mutters about the Vulcars being idiots for trying to keep a Jedi prisoner, then rounds on you and stops herself mid-threat to go "You're - you're one of the republic soldiers from the Endar Spire!" She almost didn't stop herself from saying [[spoiler:Revan]].

* What was the purpose of the mission to Taris at the beginning of the first game? Whatever it was, it didn't go according to plan, but after that, when you make it Dantooine, no further mention is made of what you and Bastila had been sent there to accomplish in any case. Instead, the Jedi council sends you to go looking for the maps to the Starforge, one of which, conveniently enough, is located a short walk from the Jedi enclave on Dantooine. Why didn't they just send you on that mission in the first place? What was the in-story purpose of the mission to Taris?

*** That still doesn't make sense. The war had been going on for two-and-a-half years by that point. It had to have already been clear that Malak, and Revan before him, had been getting huge fleets seemingly out of nowhere. Also, what Republic side of the battle at Taris? There was no Republic fleet, just one ship, the Endar Spire. And it certainly doesn't look there was a ground war of any seriousness, since there's no visible damage anywhere in Taris.

*** Okay, but then where was the Endar Spire going, and for what purpose? When you get to Dantooine, they send you on the quest for the Starmaps without ever telling you why they sent you to wherever you were going on the Endar Spire. What was the purpose of that mission?
** I'm sure the player character knows what the mission was, but it's probably irrelevant now, what with the massacre. As for the Star Maps: the Jedi didn't ''know'' about those until the PC and Bastila have their vision. They knew about that weird old ruin, but the Jedi who had explored it had never come back (and I think the ruin [[SpaceCompression isn't actually that close to the temple]]).

** He tells you immediately: He just wanted to see if you are willing to cooperate, and show you what happens when you lie to him. In fact knowing him, it's not entirely unlikely he just wanted an excuse to electrocute Carth/Bastila.

* What's the deal with the Darkside character models? I don't see why me being a Darksider to the max means I have to look like I haven't been outside in a decade. There's no canonical basis for this. Hell, EU doesn't really follow this all that much either.

*** Funny how Palpatine's deformity had nothing to do with the Darkside and was a result of his fight with Mace. Anakin, Maul, and Dooku looked normal as well (aside from their eyes).

*** That's the whole ''point'', you shouldn't change based on how many dark side points you have, you should change based on how many powers you use that could effectively alter your appearance. In [=KotOR II=], it's possible to use only light side powers, not neutral or darkside, and with the right conversational choices you can ''still'' look like you've been using force lightning for half a decade before you even get to the first planet! Even if handwaved with the Force altering the person's looks to fit their personality, it should be much more gradual, with the change happening more quickly based on how good or evil one is, not more extensively. EvilIsSexy Sith can convince people of things without even having to resort to force hypnosis, why must [=KotOR=] be otherwise?

*** [=KotOR=] 2 pretty clearly showed that Maul WAS affected. Get Bao-Dur, a member of the same species as Maul, full Darkside, and his skin color changes to match.

** The Jedi don't believe in the death penalty. If you disagree with them, you get dark side points.

** The prequel comics reveal that they wore toned down versions of their uniforms before they fully announced their darkside nature, not to mention being only vaguely associated with the Jedi Council as a whole.

*** While I agree with you here is one thing I'd like to point out: The game implies Juhani's master let her win to test her dedication to the light side. Depending on what dialouge path you go through, Juhani herself will point out how arrogant she was being to think she could actually defeat and critically wound a Jedi master when she was still a novice.

* Why does Jolee Bindo have a "neutral" stance to the light and dark sides, even though he emphatically shouts down any "dark" actions you might take, to the point of sending his own friend to be executed for a (somewhat justifiable) murder?

*** I think it represents Jolee's following of the Potentium view of the Force, enabling him to use both light and darkside powers equally.
*** Jolee is not a follower of Potentium. He does not question the existence of the dark side.
*** Aye, I don't believe it had even been named yet. But he DOES use darkside powers (or can at least), which is more than halfway there.

** No matter how much he talks about being done with the Jedi, Jolee still considers himself a Jedi deep down. He says as much when Sunry admits to murdering a Sith agent in cold blood and again if you turn to the dark side at the Rakata temple.

** Jolee follows the light side, but not the Order. He doesn't like the Order as he disagrees with some of their positions, particularly those on love and attatchment. He does what he wants to do, and isn't going to let anybody tell him any differently. He believes in the Republic, but the Order is too restrictive. Mostly he wants to be left alone, with a "screw everybody else" philosophy, but not a "kill everybody else" philosophy. To put it simply, there's Lawful Stupid and Chaotic Stupid, Jolee is in the middle, leaning towards good, and considers the council to be the former.

*** On the whole true, but with several minor falsehoods: Bastila did not so much see no need to desperately try to force you to redemption — she clearly did if you speak with her — it's just that her own stability and loyalty to the Light was starting to fall down beneath her feet and thus she was increasingly in no position to force HERSELF to stay on the Lightside (even when you YOURSELF are Light), much less a fanatically Dark Revan. And Jolee certainly doesn't believe they are pointless, only that they are needlessly costly and bloody.

*** Doesn't work. He continually talks about the light and dark side and even says that the dark side can never be truely defeated.
** Jolee is a light sider, but he's less puritanical about it than Bastila et al. A fair few older Jedi in the Star Wars universe seem to end up a bit more relaxed. Qui-Gon Jinn was a light sider, but he broke the rules a lot and Yoda is hardly a paladin. Jolee is just an irrasible old man that has no time for the Order these days, but still would prefer the light.

*** Is it possible that there are other Sith academies dotted around the galaxy? After all, there's the academy on Malachor V. In addition, remember that many Dark Jedi in Malak's army were original regular Jedi who turned to the Dark side. Presumably most of their ranks are made of fallen Jedi, not brand new ones.

*** Not to mention how it is stated that the Vulkars attack people on sight in the street, without caring who they are. Besides that, you do not even kill all the Vulkars in the base, at least if you’re fully light side anyway, as the one Vulkar who was from the gang back before Brejik took over surrenders to you when you start fighting him.

* Why does fighting Starkiller net Dark side points? He is willingly making a choice to risk his life for what he finds to be "fun" with another person (you) aware and agreeing that one of you will die. What is so evil? Yes, you are breaking the law, but one dialogue explicitly says the banning of death matches was done under the current Sith martial law, and you don't get Dark side points for all the many crimes you commit against them the rest of the game.

* The hologram pop-quiz in the Shadowlands of Kashyyyk. Giving the "evil" answers (accusing Zaalbar, leaving a city full of civilians to die) nets you dark side points. Now, that'd be fine and dandy if the fact that you answered the questions that way actually meant that you would do those things, but why can't I just be a Light Side character who is telling the hologram what it obviously wants to hear so it doesn't shut down on me? I suppose you could argue that lying is a dark side action, but none of the Jedi council have a problem with lying to you about your identity, and I don't think lying earns you any dark side points on any other occasion, unless the lie actually causes harm to the person. Here, it doesn't. In fact, it's not even a person you're talking to; it's just an information terminal. You're getting dark side points for tricking a MACHINE.

*** That would beg the question of why the quiz is even necessary in the first place. That, and it doesn't make a lot of sense to get dark side points for saying you ''would'' do something. If you actually do it, sure, but if you just say you would and are telling the truth...well, that would mean you were dark-sided to begin with. But it doesn't actually affect anything until you say it out loud? So really you're getting ''retroactive'' dark side points? I don't know. [[KarmaMeter Karma Meters]] suck.
*** The quiz is necessary because the computer doesn't ''completely'' recognize you. It was programmed to recognize Darth Revan, but since you are Darth Revan with amnesia, it gets confused and decides to see whether or not you ''think'' like Darth Revan. If you give Dark side answers, then you are thinking like Darth Revan and it acknowledges you. If you don't, it tries to kill you, you fight a couple of droids, and during battle you start thinking like Darth Revan which the computer detects and it acknowledges you anyway. As for why you get darkside points, the computer is basically giving you choices. Even a dark-sider can still choose to do something different, and every evil choice someone makes corrupts them further. It's worth noting that the choices the computer gives you ''haven't'' really come up before, like deciding whether or not you would turn on one of your most loyal followers, or allow one of your cities get wiped out to ensure victory. It isn't something your character would have thought about before, so it makes sense that deciding that you would act like a bastard would make you more of a bastard.

* The effect on your bodily appearance I can accept, but why does going fully darkside give you evil ''underwear?''
** Going fully darkside gives you a 40% off coupon at Evil-Underwear-Mart, obviously.
*** It's so the game designers don't have to texture the darkside sickly appearance for your whole body.

* Why does all the light side dialogue for the post-Leviathan having Revan and others referring to him/her as 'formerly being Revan'? Revan's new identity is just a cover and simply isn't real. His/her memories are coming back and, like it or not, he/she ''is'' Revan. Choosing to reject everything about the Sith and Revan's plans for the past few years doesn't make him/her no longer Revan. If anything, it just sends him/her back to the pre-Mandalorian War days when he/she was a Jedi. This BecomingTheMask aspect of the light side is really disturbing.

* At the end of [=KOTOR=] I, you find out as a dark side character that Darth Revan's Robes were created by using the Star Forge. However, in an early cutscene, you see Revan in finding the Dantooine Star Map already dressed in his robes in the process of still looking for the Star Forge. Is that an oversight?

* What's the point of the final duel with Malak? Yeah I guess we need our final boss fight, but if you think about it the fight isn't necessary. Bastila has either been turned away from the dark side or killed, and the Republic is about to rain holy hell down on the Star Forge (in the light side ending anyway), so just let Malak sit in his room while everything explodes. Malak says he can drain all those Jedi corpses to gain the upper hand against Revan, so why take the chance of fighting him directly? Okay so Malak obviously won't just sit there and let himself get blown up...he'll escape before that happens, and the game mentions that. But who cares? Without the Star Forge his war effort is crippled, and the next time Revan meets up with him he'll have no Jedi bodies to drain.
** Light-Side Revan feels responsible for Malak's fall to the dark side and subsequent war against the Republic. Revan stopping Malak is his way to atone for that. Dark-Side Revan just wants both to take revenge on Malak and reclaim his place as the true Sith Lord.

* The Sand People have one base at a clearly marked location with no anti-air defence. Why doesn't Czerka just glass them from the air? Hiring a few bombers seems more cost effective than the money you are given for killing single Sand People(who wouldn't last long with their homes destroyed).

* The Sand People have one base at a clearly marked location with no anti-air defence. Why doesn't Czerka just glass them from the air? Hiring a few bombers seems more cost effective than the money you are given for killing single sand people (who wouldn't last long with their homes destroyed.)

*** The only possibility I can think of is that it's a sign of him being corrupted by the Darkside. At one point he tells Malak how the Star Forge is operating, perhaps he's been on the station itself and was tainted by its Dark Force energy.

*** I figured he was being corrupted by the Darkside of the Force. He was already justifying the Sith's actions quite a lot even going as far as justifying the Sith killing his mother. When you show him evidence that a friend of his was killed and he was lied to, he just couldn't keep the justifications up. Plus there is a dialouge option where you tell him to accompany you so you can show him what's going on, but he refuses because he doesn't want the Sith to see him with you.

** At first glance, yeah it does look kinda dumb, but I guess what's really happening is that the character missed the lock, not the door. The lock would be a lot smaller after. Of course that does beg the question, why swing your swords around so wildly when you're aiming for such a small target.

** And in case it need be pointed out, the reused animation is, of course, due to tech limitations, and/or lazy programming.

** He's a former death match champion and, since he's a Mandalorian, presumably a veteran of several wars. He could probably take a couple of guys who try to attack him when he leaves of the cantina, but the more time he spends unprotected by the autoturrets is more time for the people who want him dead to come after him in numbers too big for him to handle.

** Taris was part of the Republic, but was ''invaded'' and ''conquered'' by the Sith at roughly the same time they were ambushing Bastila's ship. Malak doesn't go rushing off to attack Coruscant because jumping headlong into the heart of your enemy's territory in the middle of his forces and smashing headlong into his strongest point is an act of monumental idiocy. Even if the Republic is losing, they've still got a massive fleet, and there's no way in hell he's going to be able to hold Coruscant from thousands of nearby worlds who will all be sending reinforcements.

** Haig, Plumer, Monash, Foch, Diaz, Hindenburg, Ludendorff, and Brusilov demand an apology for the insult because they didn't exactly HAVE the luxury of mobile warfare and had to build modern military strategy more or less from the ground up. And so does Malak, Revan, and the Republican bigwigs because you overlooked matters. For one, you are forgetting that the Jedi Council didn't SEND Bastila off to Taris when it was under occuption, and the pre-release website specifically noted that Taris was a Republican planet but VERY strategically isolated. The tutorial you play is the Sith Fleet's attack on the Republic Navy's forces arraigned to defend Taris, in which they thoroughly crush the defenders and land and occupy the planet AFTER you all have been forced to bail out. This is roughly comparable to [=VIPs=] being trapped behind enemy lines after a sudden and violent shift in the battle lines, so they certainly didn't plan to have her on a planet occupied by the Sith. From what little we DO see of Taris (with it being a massive city-planet with billions of people and a strict caste system) the Sith ARE trying to organize the locals to track down Bastila, mainly though criminal contacts. It's just that Taris is really, REALLY large and your party are the EXCEPTION in being able to access all three layers of the planet. And Star Wars- from the original series to the VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic legacy and beyond- have shown that you cannot hope to topple the ruling galactic power by going straight for the heart and driving on Coruscant. Because even if you DID manage to take it, the surviving loyalists in the countless systems and planets and fleets around it will promptly cut you off from reinforcements and crush you. That is what happened to the Original Sith Empire during the Great Hyperspace War, Exar Kun's Empire in the Great Sith War, by all accounts the Tionese war back when, the Yinchorri, and PLENTY of others. The camapaigns against the sitting government we HAVE seen turn out even remotely successfully- the Rebellion, the True Sith invasion of Republican space, etc. have pretty much ALL been won by slowly chewing away at the power of the sitting government. Which means going for pretty much everything BUT Coruscant and the Core until you have conquered more or less the rest, at which point you can more or less do whatever the hell you want with Coruscant and the Core, as the True Sith and then the Rebels showed. Since Malak HAS to know that a direct drive on Coruscant would be unwise if not outright suicidal, he probably taking advantage of the advantegous position of his fleet to blockade Taris and search for Bastila- who is believed to be the ONLY thing preventing the Republic from dying outright-, solidify the occupation, regroup after the battle to smash the Taris defense fleet, monitor subordinates in other sectors, and generally wait and plan his next move.

*** Just going to point out that the game is set pre-Rusaan Reformation, so the Jedi’s entry requirments were much looser.

*** While it's a very lazy HandWave, the "Cheap" explanation does have its good points. Think about it: where DO you use those hulking pieces of tripe anyway? On Saul Karath's flagship (where boosters would probaby tip somebody off outside so they would take you out while you were effectively imobilized), in the underwater Kolto facility (where they are rarely used by all accounts and protection trumps manueverability, plus we don't know how far down the facility is, so the water pressure may in fact be several times greater than possible on Earth), and the Peragus mining facility (which is very strategic but also very run down and where spacewalks are almost certainly very unusual). In short, most of the places you use them, the people in charge (both in game and meta) probably didn't put a lot of thought into actually going out in them, or there were valid reasons for their inconvenience (either avoiding detection on Karath's flagship or preventing you from getting squashed like a bug potentially on Manaan). Yes it's not the best explanation, but it IS one.

* Why does fighting Starskiller net darkside points? He is willingly making a choice to risk his life for what he finds to be "fun" with another person (you) aware and agreeing that one of you will die. What is so evil? Yes, you are breaking the law, but one dialogue explicitly says the banning of death matches was done under the current sith martial law, and you don't get darkside points for all the many crimes you commit against them the rest of the game.

* The military stratagy used by both the Republic and the Sith Empire is particularly bad (even by First World War standards). Firstly, Bastila's Battle Meditation can afect the morale of troops on the battlefeild, so the Republic stuff her on one warship and send it off to to Taris, a world crawling with Sith troops and the main Sith fleet. Malak decides to stay in orbit around Taris while looking for Bastila (without using the local cops or bounty hunters) instead of simply jumping into hyperspace for Coruscant and seizing power, which would be easy given how bad the Republic military is at defending planets.

** tl;dr - There's a lot of Dark Jedi, and you're headbutting your way through specific places where they're commonplace.
*** just going to point out that its set pre Rusaan Reformation so the jedi's 'entry requirments' were much looser
** Master Dorak explains that the majority of the dark Force users in Revan's Sith Empire are former Jedi who had previously followed Revan and Malak in the Mandalorian Wars and continued to serve them after they found the Star Forge. The minority of them are Jedi who, as Kreia explains in KotORII, were captured over the course of the war and purposely corrupted by Revan through dark teachings and energies from the Trayus Academy on Malachor V, which Revan was using as a secret training facility for his forces.
** Extremely rare can be extremely relative. One in a million or one in a thousand or one in a billion dont really matter all that much in a galaxy with a million inhabited planets, each with uncountable sentients living on them

** FridgeBrilliance: He's already in a spot of hot water with Malak over objecting to Taris's bombing, sending out Calo Nord, and the party's progress so far. Now, he's got two pain in the butt Jedi and his ex-lieutenant who openly wants to kick his ass (the feeling is likely mutual). The whole thing is being recorded and sent to Malak, so why not play being a complete {{Jerkass}} right to the hilt? (For this reason, Troper prefers the female play-through. Karath would get skewered on a lightsaber if he does any permanant harm to Bastila, but to the Republic grunt who hates his guts? Fry, baby, fry!)

*** We DON'T really know what his response to the order to blast Telos was, but even if he was OK with it there is a quantifiable difference between Telos and Taris: namely the latter as hundreds of thousands (at LEAST) of his men on it. And in addition to the likely corruption over time, keep in mind that (again) he was in interrogation trying to break you, so it is likely he was doing it. It also helps that he definitively is not a man reknowned for strong wllpower or standing up to Malak's bullying (and god knows what the punishment for a "disappointing" interrogation would have been).

** Speaking of the Governor, why do you put someone who hasn't even gotten a light saber yet in charge? I mean, why not Bandon?

*** And it could also be a "test of competence"- perhaps even the equivalent of the final test you go through at Korriban- for him: can he handle the occupation of a planet and find Bastila?
* On Taris, I personally thought that siding with the Black Vulkars should have gotten you at least a net zero alignment gain in the end. Now, Gadon Thek is certainly a more benevolent figure than Brejik could hope to be, but beneath the leaders, even where the Hidden Beks are concerned, they're still criminal organizations. They're defined as 'swoop gangs,' the SW equivalent to biker gangs, which are engaged in a turf war over the Lower City. In the first few seconds of entering the Lower City, you're witness to a brawl between Vulkars and Beks, and the Beks are shown to be just as willing to kill the Vulkars as the Vulkars were willing to kill them. On top of that, it's made clear that the two gangs essentially have the same goal: Win the swoop race, eliminate the rival gang, absorb the lesser gangs, and take over the Lower City. Both the Vulkars and the Beks were willing to use illegal engine parts to tip the odds of winning in their favor. The Beks sent you into the base knowing that you would have to kill the other gang's members to get at the prototype accelerator. However, no matter who you sided with in the Vulkar Base break-in, you end up having to kill Brejik. Which outcome is most favorable? The one where sided with the lesser of two evils, which ended with them becoming the dominating criminal force in the Lower City, or the one that required you to side with a less ethical party in order to wipe out the hierarchy of both gangs, clearing the Lower City of its dominant criminal presence? You decide.

*** Not to mention how it is stated that the Vulkars attack people on sight in the street, without caring who they are. Besides that, you do not even kill all the Vulkars in the base, at least if your fully light side anyway, as the one Vulkar who was from the gang back before Brejik took over surrenders to you when you start fighting him.

*** Killing the leaders of the gangs may be removing criminal leadership, but in the end, it will destabilize the area and in the end, the Beks are a relatively benign and "good" organization (for criminals). Removing them means someone more ruthless will rise to power.

** I think the Sith Academey was more about training Dark Jedi rather than basic Sith troops. After all, while they were Sith officer uniforms, all the hopefuls you meet carry lightsabres and use the Force. Sith troops themselves are probably trained at military academies elsewhere.

*** Is it possible that there are other Sith academies dotted around the galaxy? After all, there's the academy on Malachor V. In addition, remember that many Dark Jedi in Malak's army were original regular Jedi who turned to the Darkside. Presumably most of their ranks are made of fallen Jedi, not brand new ones.
*** Pretty much. A ''lot'' of the Dark Jedi you encounter in the game are simply that: fallen Jedi who were pulled away from the Order, either at the beginning by Revan or during the subsequent war. Its worth pointing out that Revan apparently had a policy of bringing Jedi prisoners or potential converts to the academy on Malachor V and using the Dark Side powers there to break them and turn them.
** The Korriban academy's teachings probably altered to reflect Malak's viewpoint instead of Revan's once Revan "died." In that case, Malak's whole schtick about brute violence makes a lot more sense if its some recently-adopted doctrine.

** The Korriban Academy was set up to train potential Sith ''Masters'', not the low-level grunt Sith trainee-trash you run into on the Star Forge. The standard is probably higher on Korriban than on other Sith academies.

** In [=KoToR=] 2, it’s explained that the Force Bond the exile forms with the party compels them to aid you, and doubles as an emphatic link.
*** Case in point, If you get pissed off and kill a guy after breaking into his house early on, Atton demands what happened, describing being 'suddenly filled with such rage and malice', later on, Mira demands to know why she can't stop herself from killing the mooks you encounter, something she's loathe to do.

*** It also helps that they to a very large degree probably have no choice in the matter. The main objective is and always has been to find out where the frell the Sith are getting their seemingly limitless war material and shutting it down, because if that fails the war is entirely lost. The increasingly evil nature of their commander is likely to be a concern, but can anybody really do anything about it? Bastila is already slowly coming undone, HK-47 ENJOYS it, T3-M4 probably doesn't know one way or the other, and everybody else probably is suffering from a combination of "what the hell are we supposed to do?/What the hell CAN we do?", "Focus on the mission, that is more important", and "Better to keep an eye on him to be able to intervene if necessary (yes, that is GenreBlindness, but it is hardly irrational)." And what ARE they supposed to do? You effectively command the ship and order everybody too and fro; you pick the destinations, you pick the gear, you pick the crew. Suddenly shipping out back to Dantooine or even Coruscant without warning would likely tip a DS Revan off and have him do something unpleasant and- possibly worse- might tip MALAK off. And for all we know, perhaps somebody DID call the Jedi Council when Revan was away only to get the word that [[TooDumbToLive Wait and see, because we will be able to deal with this problem after the mission is complete.]]

** If I recall correctly, it was because he believed that the promised land was a wild goose chase.

** This troper always thought the Taris race was a longer track than the others
*** It also doubtless helped that Taris- and its Galactic-standard Swoop arenas, racers, and the like- were blown up by Malak, which means that any other Swoop racers looking to compete would naturally gravitate elsewhere (in this case mainly to Manaan). Doesn't entirely account for the amazingly low times in backwater Anchorhead, but since Anchorhead is so out of the way, it is possible that nobody knows about any accomplishments the swoop racers there have made.

*** On the whole true, but with several minor falsehoods: Bastila did not so much see no need to desperately try to force you to redemption- she clearly did if you speak with her- it's just that her own stability and loyalty to the Light was starting to fall down beneath her feet and thus she was increasingly in no position to force HERSELF to stay on the Lightside (even when you YOURSELF are Light), much less a fanatically Dark Revan. And Jolee certainly doesn't believe they are pointless, only that they are needlessly costly and bloody.

*** a) We don't know Darth Bandon's real name. b) Bandon= Abandon. As in he abandoned the Jedi. See? Makes sense.

*** No

*** And, no, he isn't. Jolee isn't a member of the Jedi Order, but he actively tries to respect the Wookie's customs, wants the Republic to succeed, and is willing to take orders from the [[Main/TheReveal Main Character]]. Where's the chaos?

*** I think it represents Jolee's following of the Potentium view of the force, enabling him to use both light and darkside powers equally.

** Jolee is actually a little bit light sided. Also, being neutral doesn't mean that he doesn't care what happens. He's not a saint, but he doesn't have to approve of killing innocents.

** No matter how much he talks about being done with the Jedi, Jolee still consider himself a Jedi deep down. He says as much when Sunry admits to murdering a Sith agent in cold blood and again if you turn to the dark side at the Rakata temple.

*** People develop and change in appearence. Sometimes the change is subtle enough that they are still recognizable even to acquiantences years later, and sometimes they change to such a degree that one's best friend or other familymember wouldn't recognize them when looking right at them. We don't know to what degree Revan changed due to development, but it is very concievable that he looks fairly different than he did as a boy. To say nothing of the fact that Revan as Revan's true identity is probably not that famous. Only a handful of people from his generation and the elder ones would make the connection and many of them are either dead, defected, elsewhere, and/or in on the conspiracy. Revan is famous across the galaxy (and even canonically) as Revan and the "Revanchist." We do not know his canon name or appearence- and many even thought that Revan WAS his actual name (which we now know is not the case)- and we know this is a fictional world , fercripssake. How do you think somebody INSIDE that world would manage when the only connecting point would be his appearence (which was almost entirely obscured when he was in any way truly notable prior to the ambush), his rough physical profile (which he likely shares with a billion or so other people in the galaxy), and his voice (which we have little reason to believe was recorded with any frequency, much less dispersed with enough regularity for him to be instantly identifiable to every single layman even in the dregs of the galaxy like Anchorhead).

*** Wait a minute, wait a minute. The jedi at the council KNEW that the player was Revan. Remember the arguments you weren't privy to? The comment "We fear this may lead you down an all-too familiar path?" How they covertly steer you towards the Star Map? The only people of consequence who knew Revan's true face were the Jedi Masters that did, in fact, recognize you and use you to their ends. Heck, the whole POINT of a dark-side conversion later on is anger that the Jedi were intentionally misleading and manipulating you to achieve their own ends.

*** No but it's still a evil act.

*** In regards to the Trial thing earlier: I'm told that cut content indicates that at some point the player would find a message that the Sith whom Sunry was accused of murdering had sent earlier to a superior, revealing that she was planning on killing Sunry on the very same day when he killed her. Perhaps the developers cut this element to add some moral ambiguity to the game.

*** If the explanation for nobody recognizing him is supposed to the mask, then the real question should be why nobody was in the slighest bit concerned about a Jedi wearing a Vader-looking mask during his entire life. It's a plot hole no matter which way you look at it. The player character is both the most dangerous and the most famous person in the galaxy. Even if you don't assume news channels throughout the galaxy broadcasted a hologram of his appearance, which is a huge stretch, there are still dozens of Jedi walking around on Dantooine and dozens of Sith walking around on Korriban. Someone should have recognized the player character, and the Jedi Masters who brainwashed him should have anticipated that happening. Yet nobody does. But when it suddenly becomes convenient for the plot, characters do recognize you, like the isolated Rakata on the final planet, even though they couldn't have, because Revan was wearing his Darth mask when he first went there, whereas the player character doesn't.

*** Even as a ''child''?! Remember that the Jedi Academy at Dantooine has several of Revan's teachers who reminisce about him, who ''teach him again'' without realizing what was going on. For this to make sense, Revan had to have been ''wearing a mask since birth that he never took off - EVER''.