Line #43 WMG/KamenRiderRyuki


1	[[WMG: Kagawa was Right]]
2	But not in the way he thought.
3
4	He was correct that Yui was the key to the Mirror world, but he failed to realize that her importance was from an emotional stand-point, not as an [[InvertedTrope Inverse]] BarrierMaiden.
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6	We've seen that in both Episode Final and the TV series that, even when she dies, the mirror world does not close. More to the point, we know that Kanzaki can [[ResetButton REWIND TIME]]; if she dies too early, then he could just try again. It's implied that that's exactly what happened a few times.
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8	The real key to preventing the deaths was simply being honest with her. Once she found out what exactly was going on, she rejected her brother's actions. She's the only person he cares about and the only person he'd likely listen to (although it did take a while), so Shirou eventually caved and stopped the Rider War.
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10	If Kagawa had gone in this direction instead of [[IDidWhatIHadToDo doing what he thought he had to do]], then he might have succeeded and would have had Shinji's support.
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12	[[WMG: Odin is using his Survive Form whenever he appears]]
13	Odin is a GameBreaker so why not have him go into his strongest form?
14	* Recently debunked by the revelation of images and details floating round the net of Odin's Survive Mode (assuming you can read/translate Japanese). Odin was just basically the most powerful Rider by default because Kanzaki wanted to be sure Yui survived at any cost. Further implied by the fact that if this were the case, his ''Dragon Knight'' counterpart Wrath would have ben able to win the war in the first two episodes instead of being held in reserve till near the end of the series, and would not have died in the singular use of his Final Vent against Kit. (Also of note is that Kase flat out says that all the Riders have a Survive Mode card in DK. But she was only able to secure two of them. What happened to the others remains a mystery to this day.)
15	** Also: Zwei-type Visors, used in the Riders' Survive forms, have an echoing voice, which Odin's Visor does not have.
16	* Not actually debunked. If one looks carefully, Odin Survive mode is literally just attaching GoldPhoenix to Odin. No other changes to his design whatsoever
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18	[[WMG: The monster that attacked Shinji in 13 Riders was sent by Kanzaki]]
19	Shinji keeps getting involved in the Rider war, and influencing some of them (Ren and Kitaoka mainly) so he decided to kill him off. Unfortuanately, this just led to [[NiceJobFixingItVillain Shinji becoming]] [[SelfFulfillingProphecy Ryuki anyway.]]
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21	[[WMG: Series/KamenRiderRyuki and Series/KamenRiderDragonKnight are in the same universe]]
22	* Dragon Knight takes place before Ryuki.
23	** Ryuki takes place firmly in 2002-2003. Dragon Knight is blatantly set in 2009. How can Dragon Knight have happened before Ryuki? Furthermore, if that's the case, why aren't the Ryuki Riders aware of the DK Riders or Xaviax?
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25	* Ventara and The Mirror World are the same.
26	** Not possible. The way the Mirror World acts is so dfferent from Ventara it isn't even ''funny''. The major difference being that the Mirror World will eventully consume any Rider if they stay in there long enough, but will devour a human in moments. Ventara on the other hand, is established as a actual world that can connect to ours via some kind of interdimensional warp accessed through reflective surfaces.
27	* Shiro was discovering the Mirror World, more specifically: [[spoiler: How it was connected to Yui, who is considered God to the Ventarans.]]
28	** If that were the case, then the Ryuki Riders would have already battled Xaviax. Or at least somehow been aware of him.
29	* [[spoiler: When Shiro and Yui close off the Mirror World for good, they actually destroyed Ventara. DownerEnding much?]]
30	** Completely illogical. If they close off the Mirror World, all they would do is seal the portals that link the two realities. Closing a world off doesn't necessarily mean destroying it.
31	** Easier explanation. The Riders systems are all Ventara counterparts to the Ryuki Riders. They were just used for completely different reasons and Xaviax is Shiro's counterpart.
32	*** Considering how wildly different their goals were though, the idea of Xaviax being Shiro's counterpart is implausible at best. There is, again, the fact that Ryuki and Dragon Knight are blatantly set within a specific timeframe, and have no logical connection to each other beyond the cosmetic. Ryuki was set in 2002-3, while Dragon Knight is set in 2009. Not to mention these shows taking place on wholly different sides of the planet, and for all the weird abilities Shiro displayed, he doesn't come ''close'' to doing half the things Xaviax is apparently capable of. Likewise, we don't see Xaviax, while in possession of Wrath, using the Time Vent card and we can assume from that, that while Shiro could screw with time to keep his sister alive, Xaviax either doesn't have that ability or just never used it. (one would also logically have to think that if he did have such capability, he would have just used it to restore Karsh to being able to support life, instead of going through the whole mess with Ventara and the Riders to begin with!)
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34	* Alternatively, Shiro learned of the Rider Decks in Ventara, and constructed copies of them for his rider war. It was only coincidence that the riders of Ventara and the Mirror World are tied to at least similar monsters.
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36	[[WMG: The ''Episode Final'' iteration of the Rider War takes place in [[Series/KamenRiderAgito Agito's]] world.]]
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38	There's probably a reason why Agito's cast makes a cameo, all of them pretty much in character.
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40	[[WMG: Dragon Knight and Ryuki are in the same universe]]
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42	Simply put, Ryuki happens first, while at the same time, Shirou's ventaran counterpart (Eubulon in this case) makes the ventaran decks, but they only show up at Earth in 2009, years after the Rider War, and due to being Ventaran decks, they take the user to Ventara instead of the Mirror World. Of course, because the Ventaran decks are merely copies of the Ryuki ones, they lack some things (Time Vent, for example) but have more of others (Survive, reportedly)
43	* Again, not possible. Remember that aside from the fact that these shows take place seven years apart, Eubulon created his Riders ''sixty years'' before Dragon Knight begins. That would mean that ''Eubulon's'' Riders are the originals. If one wanted to place these in the same reality, one would possibly be able to make the case that Kanzaki somehow stumbled onto knowledge of the Decks, and was able to create replicas of them, though with a few more goodies of his own invention, and instead of setting up a portal to another planet across the galaxy linked to Earth by mirrors, he created a bastardized 'mirror world' where the Riders could battle. Though why he would let the mirror world devour Riders when it would be so much easier to just let them fight to their hearts content until one was left standing and then kick their ass with Odin, who could say? But in any case, in order for these two shows to exist in the same universe, ''Dragon Knight's'' Decks, and much of the backstory, have to happen '''''first''''' just because of the canon established in ''Dragon Knight''.
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45	[[WMG: The show ending is not the true ending.]]
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47	Even if the powers that be have said that it is, and it sure looks like it should be, there is one obvious problem: every appearance of Ryuki outside ''Ryuki.'' If a ResetButton ending is the final iteration of the events, that kinda makes teamups tough. Therefore, the true ending must be a version that allows for the existence of Ryuki.
48	* Well there's always Alternate Realities to consider.
49	* Alternatively, they could just be taken from earlier time loops. Shirou may be a bit cuckoo, but he isn't stupid. When the worlds start falling apart in Decade (or whenever a multi-Rider conflict comes up) he probably just tells the Riders "Okay no fighting each other for now. First kick these guys' asses."
50	* This troper just figured the easiest explanation is that either ''Episode Final'' or ''13 Riders'' was the finale meant for the universe for all Kamen Riders (or at least the one featuring the team-ups). As for why Shirou didn't just reset things, ''Episode Final'' showed him disintegrating after [[spoiler: Yui dies]]. Maybe that was a timeline a where Shirou didn't survive to reset the Rider War, leaving Shinji and Ren at least. The only time we've seen Riders other than Ryuki, the timeline was [[Film/OOODenOAllRidersLetsGoKamenRiders messed up for some reason]] or in an [[Series/KamenRiderDecade alternative universe]].
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52	[[WMG: Ohja's two additional Contract Cards came from the three Movie Riders]]
53	Anyone wondered where Femme, Ryuga, and Verde were during the series and why they only appeared in the movies? Well, keep in mind that those movies were previous timelines. Shiro, at least as far as the Headscratchers page has pointed out, is a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of man. However, when your three Riders in question are a vengeful sister, an EvilTwin to the one thorn in your skin that you can't get rid of, and a power hungry businessman. Outside of the last one, conflicts would arise from these Riders. Conflicts that he feel would best not happen. So what does he do? Take two Contract Cards meant for those Riders and hand them to the one guy he ''knows'' would get a pretty decent body count in the Rider War. It doesn't explain the missing 13th Rider, unless one manages to count the Alternatives entering the war.
54	** A simpler explanation is this: killing a rider nets you a contract card. After all, we never see any rider other than Ouja kill another rider in the TV series, and while Ouja did kill more than 2 riders, we only saw him get the chance to bond with 2 extra mirror monsters - and we never saw if any of the riders who killed other riders in specials got a chance to bond with another mirror monster.
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56	[[WMG: Tezuka's prophecies are the result of RippleEffectProofMemory.]]
57	We know it's possible to retain knowledge of past timelines - it happened to Shinji, after all. Tezuka's recall is less perfect, such that he doesn't remember ''why'' he remembers, but he retains enough memory of previous events to know who he's talking to and what happened to them the last time around. The only reason his prophecy that Shinji would die failed to come true was that Tezuka's self-sacrifice caused the new timeline to diverge from the previous.
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Context WMG / KamenRiderRyuki