Line #61 WMG/BeastThePrimordial


1	[[WMG: All the {{Monster Progenitor}}s of the [=WoD=] are or were Beasts]]
2	Caine, Father Wolf, the Gentry, Lucifer... They all started out as Beasts. Then they became Incarnate and devised a means of creating "children" to spread their Myth. It's how modern Beasts can form kinships.
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4	[[WMG: [[Franchise/TheFearMythos The Fears]] are ancient and powerful Incarnate Beasts.]]
5
6	Well, they are personifications of fear, if on a far greater scale than Beasts.
7
8	On the Family/Hunger combinations:
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10	* [[MurderWater The Ichor/EAT]]: Makara Collector (the Camper HiveMind). Maybe [[MonsterProgenitor the original Namtaru]]?
11	* The Rake: Eshmaki Predator
12	* The Blind Man: Namtaru (Inevitability of old age) Collector (steals memories and keeps them in his archives).
13	* [[ReligiousHorror The Archangel]]: Obviously, not actually the afterlife here, so I would say Anakim Tyrant, possibly with kinship to ghosts or [[TabletopGame/GeistTheSinEaters Geister/Sin-Eaters]].
14	* [[{{Plaguemaster}} The Plague Doctor]]: Namtaru Ravager.
15	* The Black Dog: Namtaru Nemesis or Predator.
16	* The Eye: Ugallu Nemesis or maybe Predator.
17	* Franchise/{{The Slender Man\|Mythos}}: Eshmaki (elusive until it is too late) or Ugallu (standing there, watching you)? Possibly a Ravager, maybe a Predator.
18	* [[FeatheredFiend The Convocation]]: Definitively Ugallu, not sure about the hunger.
19	* The Wooden Girl: Obvious Collector, Family unknown.
20	* [[EldritchLocation The Empty City]]: Originally a Lair. However, when its Beast was killed, it somehow absorbed parts of its Soul and became a sentient nightmare on its own. Collector, maybe Makara (metaphorical fish out of water).
21	(Feel free to add your own interpretations.)
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23	[[WMG: [[MemeticMolester Pedobear]] is a Beast]]
24	More specifically, a Anakim - he is a blank eyed bear, his victims... are children -- and obviously a Predator. In his Life, he is some Japanese nerd with a Lolita complex. He started his meme himself to spread nightmares about him across the world. Obviously some of his victims end up unable to cope from the trauma, and become [[PaedoHunt Heroes paranoidly suspecting everyone of being child molesters]].
25	* Reminder, Beasts don't create Heroes. Heroes are not former victims of Beasts. Though I do believe the Heroes drawn to kill Pedobear would be all for starting a PaedoHunt.
26
27	[[WMG: UsefulNotes/{{Blackbeard}} was a Beast.]]
28	Really, his entire ''modus operandi'' was "[[TheDreaded scariest pirate ever]]" which would definitively be a perfect career for a Makara Collector. He had access to the [[ImplacableMan Unbreakable]] Atavism, as demonstrated in his last stand.
29
30	[[WMG: Comics/TheIncredibleHulk is an unwilling Beast]]
31	Specifically an Anakim with Cyclopean Strength, Looming Presence and Titanic Blow. Banner refuses to feed until the starved Hulk finally snaps, breaks free, and feeds its Hunger for Ruin in a spectacular manner.
32
33	[[WMG: Franchise/{{Batman}} is a Beast]]
34	Most likely a Nemesis Eshmaki who specifically targets criminals, and [[FightLikeANormal avoids using his abilities as much as possible so he won't hunger too fast]]. He keeps it in check by scaring the crap out of Gotham's criminals, thus allowing him to put his nature to use. The Joker might also be a Hero he accidentally created once, which would explain [[JokerImmunity why he is so difficult to kill]] and why he is obsessed with Batman.
35	** Reminder, Beasts don't create Heroes.
36
37	[[WMG: Beasts are just as delusional as Heroes]]
38	The book says that Beasts exist to teach lessons, that their lessons are needed more than ever now, that they are the only ones who have all of the answers, and that Heroes are too egotistical to see this. But this is all said [[UnreliableNarrator from the perspective of Beasts.]] There is nothing stopping them from just killing people and teaching nothing, their lessons are often [[DisproportionateRetribution incredibly severe]] despite the safety net of modern society meaning that our mistakes aren't liable to get us killed anymore, and most of their interactions with and claims about the supernatural of often demonstrably wrong (i.e. saying "What would happen if I tore off your masks? Would anything remain?" to [[TabletopGame/DemonTheDescent Demons]] like they were harmless shapeshifters rather than the [[RealityWarper reality hacking]] [[EldritchAbomination super beings]] they really are). Add in the fact that a Beast's Horror seems to do everything it can to create and attract Heroes and claims that Heroes are the ones messing with the natural order of things ring hollow. The truth is that Beasts were meant to act as antagonists for humanity to overcome and Heroes were meant to be spiritual leaders that helped overcome Beasts, but now we've outgrown the need for both and the fact that this is the [[CrapsackWorld World of Darkness]] means that this has twisted not just Heroes, but Beasts as well.
39	** The Demon entry doesn't sound like it's suggesting Demons are harmless without their "mask", but more like they are without any identity without them (which is technically true). Also, the whole "Beasts create Heroes" was jossed in later rewriting, so this argument doesn't work anymore.
40	** It's also worth noting that just because Beasts serve a purpose in teaching humanity lessons, that doesn't make their doing so any less evil. As C.S. Lewis said
41	--> To afflict humanity "because affliction is good for them" is not indeed to break the Divine Scheme, but to volunteer for the post of Satan within that scheme. And if you do his work, you must be prepared for his wages.
42	** Heck, the Mummy testimonial even questions if a Beasts lessons are, or ever were, needed by humanity anymore.
43
44	[[WMG: [[WesternAnimation/{{Moana}} Tamatoa]] is a Beast]]
45	Most likely a Makara or a Namtaru, and ''definitely'' a Collector, which would explain his obsession with collecting shiny objects.
46
47	[[WMG: Heroes are a broken reflection of [[TabletopGame/PrincessTheHopeful Champions]].]]
48	* In the days of the Kingdoms, it was the duty of the Champions to be the guardians, the dragonslayers, the ones who killed the monsters and protected the helpless. When the Darkness wove the Trap and sealed the Champions (along with the other Hopeful) in the Dreamlands, suddenly Beasts could run rampant, killing and destroying with nothing to stop them. This destabilized the Primordial Dream, and it responded by pushing on anyone who was broken enough to be open to its influence, trying to create new Champions to replace the missing Hopeful. But the power of the Primordial Dream is far less gentle or precise than that of the Light, and where the Champions were elevated from the strongest of souls, Heroes are created from among the weakest. So instead of being empowered, Heroes were overwhelmed, their own selves subsumed by the archetypes of the Dream.
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50	[[WMG: WesternAnimation/BunsenIsABeast is pro-Beast propaganda.]]
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52	[[WMG: Pennywise the Dancing Clown, from the 1986 horror novel ''It'' by Stephen King and the films it inspired, is a Beast]]
53	* The fella's almost ''certainly'' an Inguma or Eshmaki Predator who’s somehow managed to thoroughly intertwine the town and his Lair with each other.
54	** Actually, he comes off more like an Insatiable, with his power to induce apathy and control others bringing to mind a Schism.
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56	[[WMG: Someone will find a way to cross this game with the ''TabletopGame/{{Scion}}'' setting]]
57	Possibly by allowing Heroes to be patterned on Scions.
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59	[[WMG: This game was originally intended to be a CapePunk RPG with the [=PCs=] as super-villains]]
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61	[[WMG: The [[VideoGame/Persona5 Phantom Thieves]] are a group of Nemesis Beasts]]
62	They target either other Beasts or corrupt Heroes.
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65	[[WMG: Most Beasts don't believe the "teaching through fear" thing.]]

Context WMG / BeastThePrimordial