Line #42 Headscratchers/ShinMegamiTensei


1	* Why do you still need to use Magnetite to maintain demons in ''Shin Megami Tensei If...''? The rationale for it in games where it's either used for the initial summoning of demons or maintaining summoned demons is that the Human World is innately inimical to demons, and they require Magnetite -- a fluid from their native Makai -- to maintain themselves... but ''If...'' takes place entirely in Makai. I apologize if there's an in-game HandWave, but it has yet to be translated, so I wouldn't know.
2	** I assumed that Magnetite is more or less (based on what I've seen in Nocturne) "demon food" and that demons need it to survive, as well as form a body in the physical world.
3	** Probably an oversight. Also, since the game engine is more or less the same one from ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII'', it probably wasn't removed because of either laziness on the programming team, or because having to micromanage Magnetite consumption kept the challenge rating of the gameplay high.
4	** Magnetite was introduced in Megami Tensei. FridgeLogic kicks in when you realize the entire game took place in the demon world. In other words, don't think too hard on it.
5	* [[WhatHappenedToTheMouse What happened to Aya Nishitani?]] She wrote the original three Digital Devil Story novels, was involved with the production of the OAV, presumably was involved in negotiating the rights to the Megami Tensei video games...and then she just disappears off into the black hole of history. There's no listing of her later works, no indication of where she came from--if not for her given name, we wouldn't even know that Aya Nishitani is a ''she''.
6	** Actually, according to what little info I could find, I think s/he wrote a sequel series called New Digital Devil Story...which somehow manages to be even more obscure than the original series.
7	*** It also turns out that Aya Nishitani [[GenderBlenderName is a guy]].
8	*** I wish we could have evidence of that. As for the topic, Nishitani's website seems to still be up if that's any indication.
9	*** There's a photo of him here; http://complete.electrolit.net/2010/09/24/megami-tensei-novel-turned-game-turned-novel/
10	** Found some new info. After Megami Tensei, he wrote a novel called Tokyo Shadow which also had a video game adaption. Interesting fact: He and SuzuhitoYasuda went to the same school but never met.
11	** [[http://dijeh.tumblr.com/post/145807344153/heres-a-recent-interview-with-nishitani-aya Very recent interview from 2016 reveals that he became a professor for creative writing]]. He plans to write some books in the future.
12	* The Mansion of Heretics. Nobody seems to explain why they exist outside the first game on the Famicom.
13	** Well, all the other Megaten games are alternate universes; In Nocturne it is mentioned that the series is set in a multiverse. Strange Journey and Devil Survivor use a form of it but it is technology rather than a ceremony/building.
14	*** What I mean was, nobody seems to explain where they came from. The first game and Nocturne are justified in that they are not of this world but they exist in say the first SMT without introduction or why they work for you for free. Come on, Atlus. At least tell the player that they are some sort of secret organization who discovered devil fusion or something.
15	*** The Raidou Kuzunoha ''Devil Summoner'' games have "Dr. Victor" who handles demon fusion through SCIENCE!, and may very well be the predecessor to the group in mainline Megaten. That or they work like the Velvet Room does in ''Persona'' and they just ''appear'' wherever demons are to be found, a natural side-effect of the demonic world crossing into the mortal realm.
16	*** ''Apocalypse'''s producer said in [[http://eirikrjs.blogspot.com/2016/08/apocalypse-artbook.html an interview]] that Mido (the guy who runs the Cathedral) is a bodhisattva who's transcended the cycle of death and rebirth, so he probably just travels through the multiverse like Stephen to wherever Messiahs need his services.
17	*** More relevant to the original question, the origin of the Jakyou Manor in SMT1 was revealed in an old interview: https://dijeh.tumblr.com/post/100462781573/theres-a-really-nice-q-a-section-in-a-shin-megami
18	* Why is Yama a part of the Chaos faction in ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiI''? Isn't he a demon whose entire shtick (ingame and his source mythos) being the demon judge of the underworld, and isn't LAW what a judge decides? However, in VideoGame/DevilSurvivor, he's allied with a rather Law Hero inclined character, which is somewhat inconsistent, so is this just EarlyInstallmentWeirdness?
19	** EarlyInstallmentWeirdness; Yama class demons are called Night later on in the series.
20	*** He's referring to the actual demon King Yama, not the Yama class of demons that include Lilim, Lilith, etc.
21	** I believe they tried to explain it in the game but I don't remember how. It's suppose to demonstrate the irony of a judge being on the side of Chaos.
22	*** In the unlockable bonus scenes in the remake, they basically explain it as while he doesn't really agree with the philosophy of the Gaians (he is, at heart, still a judge), he think the Messians are even worse and sides with the Gaians due to their mutual foe.
23	** Yama is a Deity in VideoGame/DevilSurvivor while he's a Tenma in the earlier games. Which is why he can work with someone like Keisuke. A demons race can determine their alignment and who they side with. There are exceptions however such as Echidna who is Dark-Law but is on the side of Chaos in ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiI''.
24	* Why the hell are the Seraphim so damned loyal to YHVH, especially in ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII'' and ''VideoGame/DigitalDevilSaga''? In the former, He banished them from heaven and basically abandoned them, and in the latter, He turned them into ''flesh eating abominations!'' Is this just MyMasterRightOrWrong gone to its utterly psychotic conclusion?
25	** Probably trying to atone for their failings in ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiI''. They were defeated by the Protagonist in the Neutral/Chaos Routes. And also due to the fact they created artificial humans in hope for a savior, which went against YHVH's will.
26	** While Brahman is called God in ''VideoGame/DigitalDevilSaga'' there really isn't anything that suggests that he is a part of the Great Will like YHVH and Kagutsuchi are. So how they ended up as flesh eating abominations is a mystery.
27	** Actually it is somewhat intimated by the game that those angels are not entirely sane. In the Japanese text it's more clearly stated that they were captured by the Karma Society, went fairly crazy and then somehow got out. Why they're remembering Shin Megami Tensei II it's not entirely sure. What is sure is that they have zero relation to Brahman. You're not really fighting "God" per se as I can understand. YHVH as far as I can understand from the Shin Megami Tensei games seems to actually be an immensely powerful spiritual entity. He can remake reality as he sees fit and create life. But Brahman seems to be the ultimate expression of life - he's not remaking the world during DDS, he's trying to wipe out the everything. If Brahman hadn't of been stopped everything including YHVH would probably be dead.
28	*** Schrodinger states after the bonus boss battle against Satan that the God Satan serves is different form the one in Digital Devil Saga. Not to mention the characters themselves call Brahman God.
29	* Why were games such as Megami Tensei if..., Giten Megami Tensei, and the Majin Tensei sub-series never released outside of Japan in the 90s?
30	** ''Giten Megami Tensei'' was presumably never released because of its obscurity and differences to the main series. Same for ''Majin Tensei'', as well as the fact that some of them suck. ''if...'' (which is actually an SMT game, not an MT game) stole the logo and part of the plot from a British film, and Atlus didn't want to deal with copyright issues.
31	** Like the main series, they were never released because they thought the games were too hard for international gamers.
32	** Most likely because of the occult imagery that would go against Nintendo of America's policy on religion back then.
33	* Does anyone know which fonts were used for all the text in ''SMTI'', the dialogue for ''SMTII'', and the menus for ''SMTII''? I can't find any mention of them anywhere.
34	* Any official reason why an SMT has to be set in Tokyo? Aside from what they said that they would rather avoid creating national stereotypes, which is why they don't usually make a game based in another country, what exactly is stopping them from setting a game in another Japanese locale like Osaka or Nagoya?
35	** TokyoIsTheCenterOfTheUniverse is a pretty fast explanation. While certain games do have emphasis put onto other places, like ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor2'' actually featuring Osaka and Nagoya as the other two available locations, Tokyo is the biggest and most well-known city in Japan. It's a metropolis, with hundreds of thousands or even millions of people living there. There's a bunch of trades and economical things going on.
36	** Couldn't avoiding national stereotypes be possible if they invited scriptwriters from other countries into the crew to help write stories for games taking place outside Japan? I mean, this troper finds it hard to believe that all these monsters, spirits, and deities from mythologies all over the world are only congregating in Japan, and would love to see what's going on in other countries (especially my own, the USA) within the SMT universe. Game Freak has been making [[VideoGame/PokemonBlackAndWhite Pokemon games that take place in regions]] [[VideoGame/PokemonXandY not based on regions in Japan recently]]. Why can't Atlus do the same for Shin Megami Tensei?
37	*** They kinda-sorta did that in ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiStrangeJourney'', even if majority of the game takes place in an expanding literal hellhole in [[MysteriousAntarctica Antarctica]] and the most "foreign" things done were varied nationality representation. It's also [[JustifiedTrope justified]] in [[VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiNocturne SMT III: Nocturne]] where Tokyo is ''literally the only landmass left at the beginning of the Conception.''
38	* So Mara is said to be female in some of his appearances in the Shin Megami Tensei franchise. How the hell is a GIANT, GREEN DICK female!?
39	** Maybe Mara is UsefulNotes/{{transgender}}?
40	** Mara is a demon. Despite being a penis, how do we know that Mara has an innate concept of gender, anyway? He is not the only character to switch gender throughout the series - Lucifer's various human forms have been both male and female at different times. See also the male human in SMT IV that turned into a "female" demon in a minor scene. Gender probably matters little to a lot of the demons.
41	** Actually is worth noting that Mara was female in the original Buddhist Mythology and by some accounts DID take the form of a giant chariot riding wang.
42	** [[http://eirikrjs.tumblr.com/post/148319165217/why-is-mara-female-in-strange-journey He isn't.]] The localizers made that up.
43	* Why do so many demons in the SMT franchise deviate greatly from the myths where they originated? Like, artistic liberties are one thing. But some of these monsters bear little to no resemblance to how their source material describes them. A few examples I've picked out are [[http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/megamitensei/images/f/f0/BelialSMT.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080803195945 Belial]] (described as resembling a beautiful angel in a chariot), [[http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/megamitensei/images/0/0d/Yamm.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100615095306 Ym]] (is supposed to be a sea serpent like the Leviathan of biblical lore, hell, this demon is under the drake race of all races too), [[http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/megamitensei/images/8/83/NebirosSMT.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080803003557 Nebiros]] (said to resemble a three-headed dog or raven), [[http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/megamitensei/images/8/83/NebirosSMT.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080803003557 Abad]][[http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/megamitensei/images/a/a1/Abaddon2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080708170232 don]] (said to look like a giant locust), and even the [[http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/megamitensei/images/a/a5/Centaur_SMTIV.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130906164719 centaur]]! Why the hell would Atlus take such a well-known mythical creature and change it so drastically from what everyone knows it to look like?
44	** Well, historical artists do it too. [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abaddon Here's what Abaddon looked like according to one artist]]. Also apparently Abaddon is the '''king''' of locusts.
45	** Most of them (that are drawn by Kaneko, so not that Centaur) are symbolically related; like Persephone being split down the middle to represent how her life is divided by her time in the underworld and out of it. Also, "what everyone knows it to look like" is really, really boring.
46	** This was acknowledged in an interview where he said that it all boils down to interpretation.
47	** Well I learned something new and it's that the locusts they were talking about were not referring to the bug but instead a chimeric creature found in the Book of Revelation where it's a humanoid with lion's teeth and a scorpion's tail.
48	* So just what moon is impacting the environment in any SMT game to use the moon phase mechanic? It certainly isn't our moon. Ours only changes with each day, whereas this one changes with each step the player takes.
49	** Gameplay mechanics. Just....just roll with it.
50	* Has Atlus ever tried to justify how it's possible for multiple, oh let's say, Thors running around?
51	** I think this was explained by the "Jack the Ripper" Demon, it isn't the original killer but it was a demon taking the form of something that's present in human minds. e.g Gods, Legends and Famous Criminals.
52	* Do COMPS/Arm Terminals/smartphones/laptops/etc. ever run out of power? Why don't the protagonists ever seem to need to recharge? They can't be solar powered if the players run around in places without sunlight for days. Do they have miniature nuclear reactors like in Back To the Future?
53	** ''VideoGame/DevilSurvivor'', at least, addresses this, with the mini-quest to find a hand-held wind up charger for your COMPS.
54	* Anyone else know why Atlus rarely acknowledges the first two Megami Tensei games? I would understand the first since they still belong to Aya Nishitani but MTII was all original and that's where the series usual tropes came from. I found it strange that they consider SMT the first in the series (see SMT Switch trailer).
55	** Most likely EarlyInstallmentWeirdness as well as the games being very obscure, and obtuse even compared to the first two ''Shin'' games. Among other things, Lucifer in these games is depicted as one-dimentionally AlwaysChaoticEvil like he tends to be in most media, rather than the cunning, charming and manipulative [[TheChessMaster chessmaster]] he's been ever since.
56	* Where are the Kuzunohas in ''Shin Megami Tensei 1''? Soulless Army establishes that [[spoiler: their descendants survived, judging by the 44th Raidou Kuzunoha]]. Shouldn't they be dealing with the massive flood of demons before Thor nukes Tokyo? A case could be made for IV and IVA, but [[spoiler: there's no confirmation that they're alive in those games.]]
57	* In SMT 1 and 2, the Law Hero, the Chaos Hero, the Heroine, Beth, and Hiroko can all use magic. Why are they able to use magic, and if the Chaos Hero can use magic, then why can't he fight off Ozawa and his gang by scaring them off with fire?
58	* From what I understand, the Tensei in the title is different from 'reincarnation with some people saying 'metempsychosis' is a better translation. Could someone more knowledgeable explain the difference? I thought of this when reading Digital Devil Story as Yumiko is the reincarnation of Izanami but Izanami still exists as a separate entity.
59	** According to AnatomyOfTheSoul, everyone has two (types) of soul inside of them: Hun and Po in Chinese, Kon and Paku in Japanese. Hun/Kon goes to heaven and reincarnates, while Po/Paku stays on earth. Yumiko is the Hun/Kon, and Izanami is the Po/Paku. It doesn't answer the metempsychosis question, though.
60	* Unless certain conditions are met (i.e. fusion accident, app, Demi-Fiend on a NewGamePlus), the player cannot summon a demon at a higher level than they are. Then how does Ozawa have a demon as strong as Minakata? It's highly doubtful that he's as strong as the heroes at that point.

Context Headscratchers / ShinMegamiTensei