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Irrelevant and redundant.


* CombatPragmatist: The IRA. Use of an ImprovisedWeapon? Check. Creeping up and assassinating officials? Check. [[ExternalCombustion Car bombs?]] Check. Collins himself pioneered this "urban guerrilla warfare" which was taken up by movements from Israel to China from the 1930s onward. In truth though this was a strategy which had a long history and the car bomb was an invention of the script (Collins attempted to murder Sir Ormonde Winter, the head of British intelligence with one but Collins' captured documents betrayed the plot and Winter personally captured the assassin.

to:

* CombatPragmatist: The IRA. Use of an ImprovisedWeapon? Check. Creeping up and assassinating officials? Check. [[ExternalCombustion Car bombs?]] Check. Collins himself pioneered this "urban guerrilla warfare" which was taken up by movements from Israel to China from the 1930s onward. In truth though this was a strategy which had a long history and the car bomb was an invention of the script (Collins attempted to murder Sir Ormonde Winter, the head of British intelligence with one but Collins' captured documents betrayed the plot and Winter personally captured the assassin. script.



* LaResistance: The IRA fighting against the British Empire for the independence of Ireland. Until the Anglo-Irish Treaty is signed, Collins is always a member or leader of the Resistance (although Irish Unionists would always question what they were resisting to?).

to:

* LaResistance: The IRA fighting against the British Empire for the independence of Ireland. Until the Anglo-Irish Treaty is signed, Collins is always a member or leader of the Resistance (although Irish Unionists would always question what they were resisting to?).Resistance.



-->'''Belfast Detective''': There's a new regime in here! And it's startin' now! Good day, Mr. Broy. [''to his colleagues''] Bit of Belfast efficiency is what they need. [''He gets into the car and slams the door. Cue ExternalCombustion.''] Never happened in real life. In fact Collins plotted to kill Sir Ormonde Winter, the head of British intelligence, using a car bomb but the plot was discovered due to Collins' captured documents and Winter personally captured his would-be assassin.

to:

-->'''Belfast Detective''': There's a new regime in here! And it's startin' now! Good day, Mr. Broy. [''to his colleagues''] Bit of Belfast efficiency is what they need. [''He gets into the car and slams the door. Cue ExternalCombustion.''] Never happened in real life. In fact Collins plotted to kill Sir Ormonde Winter, the head of British intelligence, using a car bomb but the plot was discovered due to Collins' captured documents and Winter personally captured his would-be assassin.

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Changed: 264

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Was just going to fix the formatting here, but the troper who added this has been reported for making anti-Irish edits before. I'm going to hide it, since I don't know enough about the film or situation to know whether that falls into agenda-based editing.


* Hypocrite: the IRA claim they are fighting for "freedom" yet ruthlessly exploit all the tenets of democracy for their own benefit, the British government practicing a policy of appeasement and repeatedly releasing IRA prisoners who went right back to murdering.

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* Hypocrite:
%%* {{Hypocrite}}:
the IRA claim they are fighting for "freedom" yet ruthlessly exploit all the tenets of democracy for their own benefit, the British government practicing a policy of appeasement and repeatedly releasing IRA prisoners who went right back to murdering. murdering.
%% Possible ROCEJ violation.
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Added DiffLines:

* Hypocrite: the IRA claim they are fighting for "freedom" yet ruthlessly exploit all the tenets of democracy for their own benefit, the British government practicing a policy of appeasement and repeatedly releasing IRA prisoners who went right back to murdering.
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Added DiffLines:

* BlackAndGreyMorality: The British occupation is treated as brutal and oppressive but the Irish Republican Army is not portrayed as wholly righteous either, resorting to targeted assassination of informants and those who work with the British, even if they are simply following directives.


Added DiffLines:

* FullNameBasis: De Valera always calls Collins Michael rather than the nickname Mick which Harry and others call him. The only time he uses the nickname is when agonizing over his assassination.
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It is not valid to criticise a movie for not doing something it isn’t trying to do. These edits were essentially criticising the movie for not being a documentary.


** Bloody Sunday is depicted as a knockout blow against British intelligence in Dublin. However it only killed 7 of the most junior members of the "Cairo Gang" whose organisation was nearly 100 strong, one of its' members commenting in the long term it made virtually no difference. No British officer used a woman as a shield and gunned down 2 IRA members, instead his pregnant wife miscarried trying to protect him. No armoured car machine-gunned the crowds at Croke Park and Army search teams recovered over 50 pistols from the stadium afterwards. Broy was not beaten to death for his treason either but like many of Collins' other moles would survive to be rewarded with a high position in the Irish Free State, becoming head of its' new police force, the Gardaí.

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** Bloody Sunday is depicted as a knockout blow against British intelligence in Dublin. However it only killed 7 of the most junior members of the "Cairo Gang" whose organisation was nearly 100 strong, one of its' members commenting in the long term it made virtually no difference. No British officer used a woman as a shield and gunned down 2 IRA members, instead his pregnant wife miscarried trying to protect him. No armoured car machine-gunned the crowds at Croke Park and Army search teams recovered over 50 pistols from the stadium afterwards. Broy was not beaten to death for his treason either but like many of Collins' other moles would survive to be rewarded with a high position in the Irish Free State, becoming head of its' new police force, the Gardaí.

Changed: 2202

Removed: 765

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
It is not valid to criticise a movie for not doing something it isn’t trying to do. These edits were essentially criticising the movie for not being a documentary.


** No mention of the 1912 Home Rule, the Irish Parliamentary Party persuading the British government to grant Ireland progressive independence in the same manner as Canada, Australia, New Zealand. The casual viewer would be left with the impression that independence would not have happened without violence but some form was always inevitable. Equally it is not established that the Easter Risers were operating in support of the Germans.
** A wholly negative depiction of the Royal Irish Constabulary who in real life were described by Irish Secretary Augustine Birrell as "largely elderly men preoccupied with fishing". In the modern era the government of the Irish Republic has increasingly sought to honour the force, accepting they were decent men trapped in an impossible situation. The Irish Unionist viewpoint is also never addressed and the IRA's victims are wholly depicted negatively. Irish Unionist leader David Trimble disparaged the film as Irish history as Irish Nationalism would like to believe it was rather than reality.
** Bloody Sunday is depicted as a knockout blow against British intelligence in Dublin. However it only killed 7 of the most junior members of the "Cairo Gang" whose organisation was nearly 100 strong, one of its' members commenting in the long term it made virtually no difference. No British officer used a woman as a shield and gunned down 2 IRA members, instead his pregnant wife miscarried trying to protect him. No armoured car machine-gunned the crowds at Croke Park and Army search teams recovered over 50 pistols from the stadium afterwards. Broy was not beaten to death for his treason either but like many of Collins' other moles would survive to be rewarded with a high position in the Irish Free State, becoming head of its' new police force, the Garda

to:

** No mention of the 1912 Home Rule, the Irish Parliamentary Party persuading the British government to grant Ireland progressive independence in the same manner as Canada, Australia, New Zealand. The casual viewer would be left with the impression that independence would not have happened without violence but some form was always inevitable. Equally it is not established that the Easter Risers were operating in support of the Germans.
** A wholly negative depiction of the Royal Irish Constabulary who in real life were described by Irish Secretary Augustine Birrell as "largely elderly men preoccupied with fishing". In the modern era the government of the Irish Republic has increasingly sought to honour the force, accepting they were decent men trapped in an impossible situation. The Irish Unionist viewpoint is also never addressed and the IRA's victims are wholly depicted negatively. Irish Unionist leader David Trimble disparaged the film as Irish history as Irish Nationalism would like to believe it was rather than reality.
negatively.
** Bloody Sunday is depicted as a knockout blow against British intelligence in Dublin. However it only killed 7 of the most junior members of the "Cairo Gang" whose organisation was nearly 100 strong, one of its' members commenting in the long term it made virtually no difference. No British officer used a woman as a shield and gunned down 2 IRA members, instead his pregnant wife miscarried trying to protect him. No armoured car machine-gunned the crowds at Croke Park and Army search teams recovered over 50 pistols from the stadium afterwards. Broy was not beaten to death for his treason either but like many of Collins' other moles would survive to be rewarded with a high position in the Irish Free State, becoming head of its' new police force, the Garda Gardaí.



* {{Oireland}}: Thoroughly {{averted}} as Ireland is shown as a country with it's own culture, traditions and shady past. It undoubtedly helped that the director and most of the cast members were Irish natives. The Irish Unionist viewpoint is never articulated.

to:

* {{Oireland}}: Thoroughly {{averted}} as Ireland is shown as a country with it's own culture, traditions and shady past. It undoubtedly helped that the director and most of the cast members were Irish natives. The Irish Unionist viewpoint is never articulated.Irish.



* ProtagonistCenteredMorality: The film consistently depicts the morality of the IRA's terrorist/guerrilla war against the UK largely in terms of what side Collins is on. When Collins is for revolution, revolution is the answer; when Collins decides that the revolution is over and turns his forces against those who want to keep the war going, that's that. The movie makes only halfhearted attempts at ambiguity, clearly basing itself on the audience siding with Collins, hated by Irish Unionists as a terrorist godfather responsible for the mass murder of the IRA's victims and by the anti-treaty IRA who considered him a sell-out.

to:

* ProtagonistCenteredMorality: The film consistently depicts the morality of the IRA's terrorist/guerrilla war against the UK largely in terms of what side Collins is on. When Collins is for revolution, revolution is the answer; when Collins decides that the revolution is over and turns his forces against those who want to keep the war going, that's that. The movie makes only halfhearted attempts at ambiguity, clearly basing itself on the audience siding with Collins, hated by Irish Unionists as a terrorist godfather responsible for the mass murder of the IRA's victims and by the anti-treaty IRA who considered him a sell-out.
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-->'''Belfast Detective''': There's a new regime in here! And it's startin' now! Good day, Mr. Broy. [''to his colleagues''] Bit of Belfast efficiency is what they need. [''He gets into the car and slams the door. Cue ExternalCombustion.''] Never happened in real life. In fact Collins plotted to kill Sir Ormonde Winter, the head of British intelligence, using a car bomb but the plot was discovered due to Collins' captured documents and Winter personally captured his would be assassin.

to:

-->'''Belfast Detective''': There's a new regime in here! And it's startin' now! Good day, Mr. Broy. [''to his colleagues''] Bit of Belfast efficiency is what they need. [''He gets into the car and slams the door. Cue ExternalCombustion.''] Never happened in real life. In fact Collins plotted to kill Sir Ormonde Winter, the head of British intelligence, using a car bomb but the plot was discovered due to Collins' captured documents and Winter personally captured his would be would-be assassin.
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Set between 1916 and 1922 the story follows Michael Collins (Neeson) as he builds the Irish Republican Army into a fighting force capable of taking on the British Empire, and achieving independence for Ireland. While he eventually succeeds in driving the British Government to the bargaining table, the compromises that must be made serve to drive the Irish apart, and Collins finds himself at war with his own former comrades and friends.

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Set between 1916 and 1922 the story follows Michael Collins (Neeson) as he builds the Irish Republican Army into a fighting force capable of taking on the British Empire, and achieving trying to achieve full independence for all Ireland. While he eventually succeeds in driving the British Government to the bargaining table, the compromises that must be made serve to drive the Irish Nationalists apart, and Collins finds himself at war with his own former comrades and friends.
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* CombatPragmatist: The IRA. Use of an ImprovisedWeapon? Check. Creeping up and assassinating officials? Check. [[ExternalCombustion Car bombs?]] Check. Collins himself pioneered this "urban guerrilla warfare" which was taken up by movements from Israel to China from the 1930s onward.

to:

* CombatPragmatist: The IRA. Use of an ImprovisedWeapon? Check. Creeping up and assassinating officials? Check. [[ExternalCombustion Car bombs?]] Check. Collins himself pioneered this "urban guerrilla warfare" which was taken up by movements from Israel to China from the 1930s onward. In truth though this was a strategy which had a long history and the car bomb was an invention of the script (Collins attempted to murder Sir Ormonde Winter, the head of British intelligence with one but Collins' captured documents betrayed the plot and Winter personally captured the assassin.



** In part, this is due to poor communication; many interpret the film as falsely suggesting that De Valera was responsible for the assassination of Michael Collins, which was never the director's intent. In fact it showed De Valera being not at all aware of the plan to assassinate Collins-rather, extremely upset by the divide which occurred between them. Collins' assassin even seems to take advantage of his being too distraught to give a reply so he can organize an ambush.

to:

** In part, this is due to poor communication; many interpret the film as falsely suggesting that De Valera was responsible for the assassination of Michael Collins, which was never the director's intent. In fact it showed De Valera being not at all aware of the plan to assassinate Collins-rather, extremely upset by the divide which occurred between them. Collins' assassin even seems to take advantage of his being too distraught to give a reply so he can organize an ambush. In real life it was a simple ambush, Collins having been goaded by his political enemies that he had never fired a single shot or risked his life in any way during the conflict, exposing himself to fire in the fleeing enemy and being killed by one of the final shots fired in his first actual combat.



** A minor one occurs with the killing of an RIC detective. When reading the papers about the incident which say he was "riddled with bullets", Collins calls his men out on it, telling them that bullets don't grow on trees and that "[they] did well, but go easy on the riddlin'."

to:

** A minor one occurs with the killing of an RIC detective. When reading the papers about the incident which say he was "riddled with bullets", Collins calls his men out on it, telling them that bullets don't grow on trees and that "[they] did well, but go easy on the riddlin'."" In truth British intelligence used Collins' captured files to restrict the IRA's arms supply until they were virtually out of ammunition by the summer of 1921.



* {{Oireland}}: Thoroughly {{averted}} as Ireland is shown as a country with it's own culture, traditions and shady past. It undoubtedly helped that the director and most of the cast members were Irish natives.

to:

* {{Oireland}}: Thoroughly {{averted}} as Ireland is shown as a country with it's own culture, traditions and shady past. It undoubtedly helped that the director and most of the cast members were Irish natives. The Irish Unionist viewpoint is never articulated.



* ProtagonistCenteredMorality: The film consistently depicts the morality of the IRA's terrorist/guerrilla war against the UK largely in terms of what side Collins is on. When Collins is for revolution, revolution is the answer; when Collins decides that the revolution is over and turns his forces against those who want to keep the war going, that's that. The movie makes only halfhearted attempts at ambiguity, clearly basing itself on the audience siding with Collins.

to:

* ProtagonistCenteredMorality: The film consistently depicts the morality of the IRA's terrorist/guerrilla war against the UK largely in terms of what side Collins is on. When Collins is for revolution, revolution is the answer; when Collins decides that the revolution is over and turns his forces against those who want to keep the war going, that's that. The movie makes only halfhearted attempts at ambiguity, clearly basing itself on the audience siding with Collins.Collins, hated by Irish Unionists as a terrorist godfather responsible for the mass murder of the IRA's victims and by the anti-treaty IRA who considered him a sell-out.



* LaResistance: The IRA fighting against the British Empire for the freedom of Ireland. Until the Anglo-Irish Treaty is signed, Collins is always a member or leader of the Resistance.

to:

* LaResistance: The IRA fighting against the British Empire for the freedom independence of Ireland. Until the Anglo-Irish Treaty is signed, Collins is always a member or leader of the Resistance.Resistance (although Irish Unionists would always question what they were resisting to?).



* SadisticChoice: As Ireland slides ever closer to civil war due to growing tension between supporters and opponents of the Anglo-Irish Treaty, Collins is left with one; either lead the Irish Free State's army against the anti-Treaty IRA (many of who are former comrades or men he trained during the War of Independence) or the British Army will be sent in to do it (with the tacit implication the British government will also revoke Ireland's free state status).

to:

* SadisticChoice: As Ireland slides ever closer to civil war due to growing tension between supporters and opponents of the Anglo-Irish Treaty, Collins is left with one; either lead the Irish Free State's army against the anti-Treaty IRA (many of who are former comrades or men he trained during the War of Independence) Independence or ex-British soldiers/police officers) or the British Army will be sent in to do it (with the tacit implication the British government will also revoke Ireland's free state status).



-->'''Belfast Detective''': There's a new regime in here! And it's startin' now! Good day, Mr. Broy. [''to his colleagues''] Bit of Belfast efficiency is what they need. [''He gets into the car and slams the door. Cue ExternalCombustion.'']

to:

-->'''Belfast Detective''': There's a new regime in here! And it's startin' now! Good day, Mr. Broy. [''to his colleagues''] Bit of Belfast efficiency is what they need. [''He gets into the car and slams the door. Cue ExternalCombustion.'']''] Never happened in real life. In fact Collins plotted to kill Sir Ormonde Winter, the head of British intelligence, using a car bomb but the plot was discovered due to Collins' captured documents and Winter personally captured his would be assassin.



* YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters: The heart of the controversy surrounding the film.

to:

* YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters: The heart of the controversy surrounding the film. Irish Unionists regarded the IRA as pure terrorists, using violence for political ends within a free and democratic society, pointing out there was not a single freedom they could point to which they would lack as part of Britain. In fact many rights (contraception, divorce etc) would be taken away by the Irish Free State which was universally regarded as a "Catholic State for a Catholic People".

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