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This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Working Title: Valedmar?: From YKTTW

Kat: Did Skif ever really do a Heel-Face Turn, or was he just good all along? The series' general mythology would suggest the good all along interpretation, as would Take a Thief itself.

Fighteer: I concur here. Skif may have been a orphan, beggar, thief, etc., but he was acting out of necessity and not evil. The Companions always choose correctly.


Fighteer: Maybe a nitpick, but I want to avoid Natter.
  • Indeed, after seeing how thoroughly dangerous Falconsbane was, This Troper was expecting a villain of truly epic competence and majesty when we finally got a look at Ma'ar's original self, and considers it a moment of Epic Fail that we never actually did, quite.

Ma'ar did only manage to defeat Urtho's entire alliance through a combination of military might, ruthlessness, and treachery. Black Gryphon opens as the forces of good are losing, and gets worse from there. The only reason Skandranon managed to get close enough to defeat Ma'ar was because he didn't think anyone in Urtho's army was capable of performing that kind of Heroic Sacrifice... and he had already set in motion his scheme for returning to power century after century. In fact, the moment where he intentionally stabs himself to death in his own throne room gave me the shudders, if only because I already knew just how much harm he would cause later.

Lurkerson: While I might like that particular part, I'm honestly not so sure that Vkandis' actions count as Smite Me, O Mighty Smiter. Yes, there was a mighty smiter involved, and He did indeed smite most mightily, but that trope is about people who sound their frustrations and anger against the heavens, whereas in this case it's the opposite. It was the god that had enough. I don't suppose there's a better trope for this one? Or should we mark it as an Inverted Trope?

Freya: Well, they had spent several hundred years doing the secular equivalent of tearing apart his teachings to suit their whims, so you could argue that the false Sons had kinda been asking for it.