This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Working Title: Fighting For A Homeland: From YKTTW
ccoa: Removed the following, as no actual fighting for the homeland took place.
- The Bible has a small example, what was it again. Oh yeah The Exodus.
Once again, since it was back on the page, the above is not an example. The Isrealites ran from the Egyptians, they didn't fight. And they didn't fight for that homeland at any point along their journey. Yes, it was a tough journey, but hardship is not the same thing as physically fighting. They had to wander for 40 years because they were disobedient, not because they refused to fight.
Goldfritha: Don't cut it again.
This trope is NOT about fighting to get away, it's about fighting for a homeland.
As for the claim that they did not fight for their homeland, that is a lie, pure and simple. Have you never heard of the battle of Jericho? Before that, they turned back from the Promised Land because they were afraid.
'They told Moses: "We went into the land to which you sent us. It does indeed flow with milk and honey, and here is its fruit. However, the people who are living in the land are fierce, and the towns are fortified and very strong. Besides, we saw descendants of the Anakim there. Amalekites live in the region of the Negeb; Hittites, Jebusites and Amorites dwell in the highlands, and Canaanites along the seacoast and the banks of the Jordan." Caleb, however, to quiet the people toward Moses, said, "We ought to go up and seize the land, for we can certainly do so." But the men who had gone up with him said, "We cannot attack these people; they are too strong for us." So they spread discouraging reports among the Israelites about the land they had scouted, saying, "The land that we explored is a country that consumes its inhabitants. And all the people we saw there are huge men, veritable giants (the Anakim were a race of giants); we felt like mere grasshoppers, and so we must have seemed to them."'
ccoa: You know, that would actually be a good argument, if it had happened in Exodus. That happened in the Book of Numbers, not Exodus. Which one would expect you would know if you could quote it, although I'm assuming that's google-fu at work rather than intimate knowledge.
The Hebrews were cursed to wander the wilderness for not believing in God 10 times. The tenth was merely the final straw, not the ultimate cause. And, once again, it does not even occur in Exodus.
The story of Exodus has absolutely nothing to with this trope. If you want to add the Book of Numbers as an example, fine. But stop adding false examples to the page. And stop ignoring the established protocol for debates on examples - the discussion page exists so that this can happen without edit wars. Simply placing an example back on a page without discussing it is trolling, and I won't have it on any page I've launched. I don't care how good your reason is (although in this case, it's bullshit), we have rules to prevent that kind of bullshit.
Goldfritha: In other words, you cut it because, for some reason, you couldn't bring yourself to correct it. Why not?
ccoa: I didn't remember Numbers the first couple times, mostly because both of you kept saying Exodus, which made no sense at all. Plus, it wouldn't be so much correcting it as cutting it and replacing it with the correct example since it was wrong on almost every point. I don't see how it's my responsibility to do so.
