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This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Working Title: Defied Trope: From YKTTW

Filby: Took out the Watchmen quote, since it's already on at least one other page.

Isn't "thirty-five" just one word?


Etheru: Sorry for no proper explanation of Tatsunoko vs. Capcom.


The Last Action Hero entry was removed almost as soon as I added it. Reason: "That's subverting. They would have to actively make the tropes different."

The fact that the movie characters get to the real world and notice how tropes don't work in the same way there as in the movie might be subverting or deconstructing tropes. However, the characters start to explicity defy the tropes in order to test them: One character shoots a bystander and then makes a lot of noise just to see if the police will arrive, just like in the movies. Another character, rather than keep the boy as a hostage and have a long talk with the hero, just outright throws him off the roof right away. The hero "plays chicken" with a car and deliberately crashes the car onto the other one rather than dodging it. All this looks a lot to me like defying tropes: Deliberately doing things contrary to what they used to do in the movie world.

So how is this not a good example of defied tropes? What does "they would have to actively make the tropes different" mean?

Dragon Quest Z: The point is to know the trope is about to happen, and try to stop it, not to make the trope happen. That would be invoking, so that example belongs there.

  • So how is "defied trope" defined then (such that what the characters in the movie do "in the real world" is not trope defiance)? How is defying a trope different from subverting a trope?

Dragon Quest Z: Subvert is when the trope seems to happen and then doesn't. These can overlap if it's the character making it not happen.