This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Ununnilium: Should we really include talking animals in here?
Pro-Mole: IMHO, it does fit the trope as it's described. The lack of an YKTTW reference leads open to what was really intended, though.
Morgan Wick: "wiki"?
Lale: Theoretically, if intelligent, sentient, anthropomorphized (sp?) animals are included, why not Half-Human Hybrids? The idea seems only meant for animals that are not humans' social/intellectual equal in their universe/situation, to differentiate the grudge from that of a grudge against another human.
Wiki: The thing is, it could be constricted solely to normal humans and normal animals, but lets face it, with cartoons and comics and all that other junk we're blessed with, I think there's some room left over.
Kilyle: This argument reminds me of the reason Christopher Booker cut down Watership Down. It's not a complete, mature story because... it's about rabbits and not people. For all the important issues his Seven Basic Plots raises, that one stupid comment sticks in my head. Heh.
But anyway, I'm wondering about the distinction between a humanoid who happens to have fur and an animal who happens to hold intelligent conversations. I'd like at the least to separate the examples into the "two different intellectual classes" and "anthropomorphised opponent" sections.
I wonder if we shouldn't include a section for very tiny people... or, perhaps, another trope. I'm recalling, vaguely, several instances of people being dragged away by men in white coats, after spending half a movie trying to capture or kill little creatures, such as the Littles, the Borrowers, fairies, elves, the Smurfs, etc., etc., etc. Or maybe that's already included in a different trope? To me it has much the same feel as this trope has. And the "species" thing might still work in this case.
Tails: Personally I don't think they should be, as the trope, as I interprete it ,is based around holding a grudge against a creature who is incapable of understanding it. Considering a whale your sworn enemy, when it doesn't have any comprehension of what an enemy is, besides someone attacking it at the moment. If the animal is intelligent, then it's an enemy that happens to be an animal.
Doug S. Machina: What's the end of this sentence? "he essentially said that if he couldn't hunt down the abstract fates that ultimately cost him his leg, the ti" -tular white whale would be his substitute?
