It's a Gundam thread!

Angst Aversion is the closest I can think of, but that's not quite it.

Not quite, but Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy is similar.

edited 21st Feb '10 10:05:29 AM by WillyFourEyes

Maybe we should YKTTW Downer Aversion.

I thought Seed was okay but very, very... Standard? (and it was even the first Gundam i watched!) It's competently done, but it's not that *interesting*

Really, Fllay is the only thing that is really memorable about that show, she's awesomely screwed up and one of my favourite characters. (Also, I called the "Luke and Leia" really early on :p)

Destiny really had much more potential with the set-up and initial character dynamics, but screwed it up completely in the second half. The first half is very, very good though. Very interesting dynamic between Athrun and well, everyone else.

Also, creating a fake!Lacus was such a brilliantly simple idea. I love it. Then again, I loathe Lacus.

I know what you mean. Considering SEED was partly a send-up to the original Gundam, it's easy to see where the "Standard"-ness came from.

My favorite character from Destiny was Heine Westenfluss. So Yeah.

@Nyktos: You guessed correctly there. Just to note, it's an OVA, so it's only 6 episodes long.

Anyway...

Both SEED and 00 have the 'Angsty Robot' problem to me. The characters just don't feel... Real? And SEED has Space Whales, which is unforgivable. :P

As for my favorite mech, the MS-18e Kampfer. Oh hell yes. I also really like the style of S Gundam, although I haven't read the series.

edited 21st Feb '10 10:45:41 AM by Miijhal

The08th MS Team is an OVA as well, but it has twelve episodes. I did know that 0080 only had six though.

While the Gundam shows does have issues (mainly the obligatory teen thing) I do think they (to a greater extent than eg. Super Robot shows) point out that yes, this is war. It might be cool and look awesome and Truffaut Was Right and all that, but it is war, and people have to deal with the fact that what they're doing is killing and maiming other people not too different from themselves.

Yes, they often overdraw this, but I think people who expect solely awesome mecha fights are Completely Missing The Point. No matter how abstracted the series is (with a few exceptions) about war, and well, you know the rest...

edited 21st Feb '10 11:14:15 AM by Arilou

I remember a particularly awesome critique of Wing on imdb where the reviewer was pissed that a kid's show made the antagonists and mooks sympathetic and the protagonists look like jerks.

There's still a warm and fuzzy place in my nuclear powered blood pump for the Gouf Custom. Simply because I got to see it stomp all over a team of gundams. Although Exia struck me as a neat design. Or Dendrobium.

Fixed, I don't know why I typed 0800.

edited 21st Feb '10 1:36:55 PM by Deboss

I remember a particularly awesome critique of Wing on imdb where the reviewer was pissed that a kid's show made the antagonists and mooks sympathetic and the protagonists look like jerks.

I must see this. Link please?

Also, I feel the need to say that The08th MS Team is my favorite Gundam series. Just awesome in every way.

Dendrobium was 0083, wasn't it?

And yeah, my favorite thing about Gundam is that the enemies aren't villains. They're just soldiers on the other side. It makes the message come off more naturally, because you actually get to see that the people who the protagonists are fighting aren't puppy-kicking asshats, but people with family and friends who just want to get the war over with and go back home.

A lot of why I don't like the latest two series is that they're a lot worse at portraying that. In SEED, both sides were genocidal maniacs, and when a third side was added, it became good guys versus bad guys. In 00, the major enemies are absolutely psychotic, and everyone just comes off as murderous psychopaths who may or may not have a friend or two who isn't a complete jackass.

edited 21st Feb '10 12:07:07 PM by Miijhal

Ugh, I can't find it. I turned on the 'Hated It' filter, but it didn't crop up; I'll slog through page by page, if you like.

^^ I don't know. The A-LAWS were pretty much just the Titans with new uniforms. And SEED's finale was a lot like Wing's, with two armies that were aiming to annihilate one another and the main characters forming the "good guys". Granted, Wing was a hell of a lot more ambiguous about that than SEED...

EDIT DUE TO NINJA:

Ugh, I can't find it. I turned on the 'Hated It' filter, but it didn't crop up; I'll slog through page by page, if you like.

Nah, it's OK. I just did the same thing and couldn't find a review that looked like the right one.

edited 21st Feb '10 12:08:22 PM by LizardBite

Maybe it was on a different site. Hell, this is gonna bug me all day.

Anyway, does anyone else kind of dislike Beltorchika?

edited 21st Feb '10 12:12:56 PM by FurikoMaru

I've never really seen Wing, so I can't comment there. I also haven't seen Zeta in 4 years now, and I never finished it, so I can't really comment much on the Titans part, either, although they were a lot more justified considering the continuity.

edited 21st Feb '10 12:13:58 PM by Miijhal

I think I will watch 0080. It sounds interesting enough, and it is only six episodes.

I have a question for the Gundam fandom of TV Tropes, why do UC constantly bash on any Gundam that is not UC Gundam? Also, what is the deal with the voice actor controversy with Zeta Gundam?

Well UC fans bashing non-UC continuties is simply Broken Base and Fan Dumb. Which is inevitable with a franchise as big as Gundam.

Wing's Gundams are ridiculously overpowered and the bishounen brought in the fangirl-stupidity crowd, who ruined the serious cartoon political drama for everyone, forever.

Is this a good place to ask where to start with Gundam?

G.G.: I just see a drop in quality of the characterization and story in the non-UC Gundam series. Admittedly, some of the later UC series also had issues and many UC fans can't stand Gundam ZZ.

Part of the quality drop, I think, comes from Tomino no longer directing the series. Then again, a handful of the UC series also wasn't directed by Tomino, so I really can't say.

@Lemurian: There are a few good staring points, really. UC wise, Gundam Zeta or 08th MS team are good starting points, but starting with Mobile Suit Gundam will help you understand them better. Outside of UC, Turn A Gundam (BEHOLD! MUSTACHIO GUNDAM), Gundam Wing, or Gundam 00 are your best starting points.

edited 21st Feb '10 1:05:35 PM by Miijhal

I'd suggest starting at the beginning with Mobile Suit Gundam. I watched the Compilation Movies, which are considered by a lot of people to be better than the series, but I'm sure the series would make a good introduction as well.

The voice actor controversy for Zeta Gundam, if you're referring to the dub, has to do with the fact that all the characters from 0079 who reappeared in it had different VAs from before iirc.

Personally, a lot of the AUs don't look very interesting to me so I'll probably stick mostly to UC stuff. There are a couple that I'm interested in, such as Turn A Gundam (although that one gets less hate from UC fans due to Tomino's involvement), Gundam X, and possibly G Gundam.

edited 21st Feb '10 1:08:03 PM by Nyktos

Is this a good place to ask where to start with Gundam?

A large number of people started with Wing, so I guess you could start with that. I started with 00, but a lot of people don't seem to like it as much as the other series. What exactly are you expecting out of Gundam? Every series is different (obviously), so knowing what you're looking for would make it easier to recommend a starting point.

I certainly don't loathe the AU Gundams, either, but they just really don't keep my interest. Even Turn A Gundam seems awkward to me because of just how ridiculously powerful Turn A and Turn X are.