Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Alright, here's the writeup for Emperor Alexander
- Alexander is The Emperor of Carleon and a living embodiment of how sometimes, Humans Are the Real Monsters. A genocidal racist and eugenicist, Alexander is obsessed with maintaing the "purity" of humanity, and thus seeks nothing less then complete extermination of the Demon race. To this end, he conducts horrific experiments with Dark Quartz, sometimes on his own citizens and servants, to create living weapons to facilitate his plans. When the First Hero's young son accidentally stumbles upon one of these experiments, Alexander pitilessly has the boy killed and frames the Demon King for the murder, driving the First Hero mad with grief and making him all too willing to spearhead Carleon's invasion of the Demon Kingdom. After the invasion, Alexander has many of the captured Demons harvested as Human Resources to create a Chimera to serve as an "avatar" of Carleon's goddess, with his ultimate plan being to use the Demon King's blood to turn himself into a god-like entity who will obliterate the Demons. Following the First Hero's defeat at Skul's hands, Alexander retrieves his barely alive body and uses his blood to create an army of Super-Soldier clones for a second attack on the Demon Kingdom. When Skul confronts him, he mocks the First Hero for how easily manipulated he was, and after being defeated twice he attempts to destroy the entire Demon Castle and everyone in with a Dark Quartz bomb purely out of spite. A hatefully racist man who saw his own people and even his own loyal servants as disposable pawns for his ambitions, Alexander proves to be far more monstrous then the Demons he so despises.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for Kate McKittrick.
Edited by TurlesTheVegan on May 3rd 2024 at 10:41:28 AM
Off-brand Star Wars villains & Kate
Regent Balisarius
Caesar
Yes to the Rebel Moon duo and the Kate!
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Ultimate Moral Compass
Kate
Kate
Jogo
Balisarius and Kate
Not the Eye
Kate and happy May the 4th!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Some: Please add to the Drafts.
Crow: Please add to the pending. Come on dude.
Yes to Kate.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Kate
....Phenomenal
for Kate.
- Alice in Chains's "I Stay Away'': The boy with the jar of flies maliciously unleashes his pets on a traveling circus causing chaos and destruction amidst the unassuming performers, including a lion tamer being mauled to death and a daredevil motorcyclist losing control of his bike and crashing violently. Snapping the trapeze artist's rope midair and turning the clowns violently on each other, the boy's machinations cause even the blindfolded knife thrower to accidentally kill his partner. Implied for being death itself, the boy watches admirably over the entire circus burning down while petting the jar for a job well done.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Nine votes
Edited by Kookosbanaani on May 4th 2024 at 3:32:43 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Did the boy get enough votes?
If so, please add to the Drafts.
Edited by ACW on May 4th 2024 at 6:27:03 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Just checked, he got several upvotes and no downvotes
Not the Eye
I have question.
Ten days ago first issue of new anthology comic Darth Maul: Black, White & Red has come out and there is actually disscusion to be had on it.
Since it is Star Wars day, would everybody be alright with me doing proposal few days earlier to celebrate?
Edited by EmperorGeode on May 4th 2024 at 8:57:50 AM
Mr.
To Snidel and the Joining! By the way, should it be mentioned that the latter filled its end of the bargain with Hugo Strange by pouring so much info into his brain that he was rendered comatose?
I don't see any problems. There were many cases (for example, a discussion of Far Cry 6) when the thread was not against starting the discussion early. So no problem.
King of the Koopas
- Spider-Man Chronicles (link): Norman Osborn, aka The Green Goblin is the power hungry CEO of Oscorp and Spider Man’s Arch-Enemy. After being removed from his company Norman desires to regain his power and make Peter his heir. To this end Norman creates an explosion that turns himself into the green goblin. The goblin attacks Wilson Fisks party and deduces Peter Parker’s identity as Spider man threatening to expose his secret to the world allying himself with Boliver Trask Norman creates sentinels and AI to hunt down the mutants and anyone defending them Spider man is then transported to a Bad Future where Norman has wiped out the human race along with every mutant including peters aunt may the remaining survivors were injured and forced into slave labor. When Peter and kitty Pryde try do deactivate Master Mold Norman rigs the AI to explode. When Normans plans go south he programs the Sentinels to hunt down every mutant and human defending them and initiate the cores to melt and self destruct with countless lives being endangered. Realizing that Gwen Stacy has been holding Peter back from his potential the green goblin kidnaps Gwen and attempts to kill her to remove her from his life before he does any more damage. Norman is resurrected in the final volume Demoted to Dragon to Apocalypse and clones himself to regain Oscorp while he causes havoc and plans to betray sinister and apocalypse when their plan fails. Ruthless Sadistic and borderline psychotic Norman Osborn desires power and his legacy above all else even shedding his love for his wife Emily because he viewed it as a weakness.
King of the Koopas
How’s this writeup?
The Ultimate Incarnation of Evil
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Geode: I'm fine with it.
Godwriter: Could you please respond to this?
Goku Black
Sure Geode sounds fine by me
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Okay, I've been procrastinating this for far too long, let's finally discuss the recent season of one of the best shows in modern television.
What is the work? True Detective is a Detective Drama anthology about different investigators having to deal with the very worst that humanity has offer and cases that appear to be beyond comprehension, sometimes literally. The fourth season, Night Country, is a semi-Stealth Sequel to the original season and returns the show to its Cosmic Horror Story roots. Night Country explores the lives of the inhabitants of Ennis, a remote Alaskan town engulfed in a web of mystery following the deaths of the staff of the Tsalal Research Station, found frozen to death in what our main heroine describes as a "corpsicle"... but with no clear evidence of violence. With signs pointing toward a supernatural presence in Ennis, and the tense political climate only serving as another challenge to the investigation, police chief Liz Denvers and state trooper Evangeline Navarro join forces in an effort to find the culprit... The "culprit" is not our candidate, we'll instead discuss the person responsible for most of the tragedies in Ennis.
Who is she?
Mitigating Qualities? She initially appears to be an uneasy ally to the heroines—Kate hates Denvers for sleeping with her husband—accepting to help with the investigation because she "loves" the town, and there's a small Pet the Dog moment with Denvers when Kate allows her stepdaughter, one of the protesters, to go free without pressing charges... And then the Mask of Sanity finally drops when she's revealed to be responsible for everything, any potential redeeming qualities that she could have had are thrown out of the window.
I should also say Kate has two kids and she doesn't appear to be abusive; there's only a small and neutral interaction between them: Kate is waiting for their hockey match to end—they're at the local rink, which she owns—she has a brief conversation with one of the cops secretly on her payroll about wanting his son to do some private skating coaching for her boys, she talks with Denvers about the case, and then the match ends and she tells her kids to wait for her in the car, that's it. Like I said, it's the most neutral interaction possible, and keep in mind that her characterization following The Reveal of her involvement is that of a manipulative snake who tries to maintain the façade of being a regular businesswoman by any means possible, and she's not above ordering hits to keep everything a secret.
Heinous? She's not a prolific serial killer or child molester like the Yellow King and the Tuttle cult from the first season—ironically, both Tsalal and Silver Sky have major ties to Tuttle United, a company certainly owned by the clan—but as a corrupt businesswoman of her calliber? She does more than enough to count, an entire community suffers because of her actions and she doesn't seem to care at all, she's easily one of the worst villains in the show.
Conclusion? Comfortable giving her a![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
Edited by TheMadCr0w on May 3rd 2024 at 2:18:58 PM