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I can't stand this show. I really can't.
I don't like the mech design. Everything that isn't taken from the last show just looks stupid.
I don't like the plot inconsistencies, particularly how Jupiter goes from being seven years away from Earth to the site of the bad guys base.
I was never fond of Newtypes, even in the last show. I'll go to my grave saying they were a complete mistake from square one, but here, they go from psychics who are better than you at everything to space wizards who can bend physics with their minds. I'd accept that in a Super Robot show, but this is the *granddaddy* of all Real Robot television. Let's not even touch on the racist implications.
I disliked most of the characters. I appreciate that I wasn't *supposed* to like most of them, but the cast, with a few exceptions, was never fun to watch. As someone who never bought into the Char fanboyism, I don't even like Quattro.
I was turned off by the sexism. Read the quote that opens the page. 'Nuff said.
But, most of all, I hate its fans. (You may notice I didn't use the word "hate" until now.) Normally, when I don't like a show, I'm quick to say "That's just my opinion. I'm entitled to it, just as you're entitled to yours. Saying I don't like it doesn't mean you aren't allowed to." This show's fanbase was not so accommodating. I got bile, hate, angry comparisons to other, newer, to my mind better Gundam shows by people who insulted my taste and told me that I wasn't entitled to my opinion, that I must have actually liked it and just not wanted to, etc.
In short, I would have been content to leave your sacred cow be, if you hadn't thrown its dung at me.
Does the show fail completely? No, there are some successes. I liked some of its underlying ideas, like the way mechs have to be built to dodge because no armor can protect against beam weapons (making the final boss's inexplicably-immune space-magic mech even more irritating), and I love to watch Yazan Gable, even if part of it is the thrill of watching a human eau-natural butchering his "betters" with sadistic glee.
But, I still disliked the show, and my encounters with its snobbish and bitter fanbase have only cemented that dislike into hate.
Jupiter was never the Titans' main base. Scirocco was originally from the Jupiter mining fleet, though, and his ship was called the Jupitris.
From the descriptions, this show seems a bit more Super Robot than most of Gundam. Then again, Gundam has drifted into Super Robot quite a few times (the Gundam Hammer weapon, G Gundam, Turn A Gundam). Anyway, I'd consider that a plus since I prefer Super Robot to Real Robot.
My first exposure to this show was when I saw the death of Katz Kobayashi. I thought that even though I had no idea who this guy was, his death was a pretty great scene, even if it was a complete accident. I din't like viewing a spoiler first, though. Then I heard the character was universally hated for reasons I'd need to see the show to find out. I don't know how I should feel about that.
I wanted to buy the DVD of this show, but it was prohibitively expensive. I wonder if it's on Netflix...
Honestly, I think judging any work by its fans is a huge mistake.
I can't quite stand this show either, and I'm not even that far in it. It just...I cannot see how it's considered the epitome of Tomino's work. I cannot stay interested in it in the slightest.
@doctrain: It's available (dubbed) on Youtube. The dub isn't that bad, it's a tad wonky at times, but I'm okay with it.
@nrjxll: Personally, I feel it's dependant on context. If someone just went "Hey, I feel your opinion might be a little skewed, try looking at it from this perspective etc. etc." and generally left the guy alone after that, I don't think he'd be having as adverse a reaction as he is.
The reviewer states they got "bile, hate, angry comparisons to other Gundam shows by people who insulted [their] taste and told [them] that [they] weren't entitled to [their] opinion." So, to keep it short, they got the short end of the crazy stick when it came to the fandom. Being a part of the Eva and A:tLA fandoms myself, I know how crazy some twats can get over their shows. Resentment of a show after a critical mass attack from a show's fans is understandable in my book, because seriously - who wants to be associated with that? On the same note, would you want to watch a show after a fan tried to rub your nose in your opinion like it was a pile of shit?
On the same note, would you want to watch a show after a fan tried to rub your nose in your opinion like it was a pile of shit?
Because the behavior of the fans really has no relation to the quality of the show.
As a personal example, generally speaking I hate the fandom of Doctor Who with a burning passion (though for different reasons then the reviewer's case), but I enjoy the show - I just avoid the fanbase. I just don't see why this review talks about how bad the fans were as a deciding factor when the reviewer already disliked the show for several other reasons.
I feel comfortable disliking a show for those reasons. Not, as I tried to make clear, hating it.
I went from, "I privately dislike this show" to "I hate this show a lot" because of its fanbase. You will note that I only mention them in the second half of the review, and start by listing all the reasons I didn't like the show to begin with.
It's one thing to not like a show. Everyone has shows they don't like, maybe even popular ones. It's another to be told that the show you don't like is a special show you have to like, or your opinion doesn't count.
I just feel that hating a show just because people who enjoy it are unpleasant is a terrible reason to hate something. The fans have nothing to do with the quality of a work. It is irrelevant and childish.
As the guy has just clarified, he already disliked the show. The fans behaving like little shits are what drove him over the edge.
Imagine someone saying they liked Sonic the Hedgehog 06 over Sonic Adventure, or Sonic 2, or just plain disliked the older ones in favour of the newer ones. I imagine the shit storm that would erupt from that to be similar to what Time had to experience.
I know he already disliked the show. T Hat much is clear. But since the fans are irrelevant to the quality of a work, it doesn't matter in the slightest. He can hate the fans, but not the work.
...Then I'm being small-minded and petty. If that's your opinion, sure, you're entitled to it, and I won't hold it against you. You are welcome to dismiss my criticisms of the show on the grounds that I also criticize the fandom.
I saw a review here, and, not seeing a second review which conveyed my personal viewpoint, resolved to create one myself. I didn't go vandalize the YMMV section with personal anecdotes about Fan Dumb or Idiot Plot or other shorthands for "I didn't like this show." I wrote a review about my experience with the show in the review section, and you are free to agree or disagree with my decisions.
I will only say, though, that this is a fairly old show in a fairly popular series. For me, personally, the fandom and encounters with it are part and parcel of the experience of watching the show, because talking with other people about television is something I like to do, if my presence on this website wasn't a give-away. If I loved Zeta Gundam (and I really didn't) and had had a similarly negative experience with its fanbase, I would report that too. As I did not, and as with a show this old and entrenched is fairly famous, I felt that reporting honestly my experiences watching and discussing it would adequately reflect how I came to my conclusions on it.
Now, if you think they're invalid... then fine. I am simply trying to be honest about how I came to feel as I do about the show.
I don't remember dismissing your opinions of the show itself. All I remember is saying that it's wrong to hate a show because you hate the fandom. Now I can kinda (almost) understand your reason for that, though.
Also, I know I'm entitled to my opinion. That's why I stated my opinion in the first place.
Well, then we're cool.
This little whine is riddled with factual inaccuracies: Jupiter the homebase of the Titans? Racist implications? Sexism? Inexplicably-immune space-magic mech?
What are you even trying to babble about?
And of course, that's just casting aside that this isn't actually a review: it's just you using this as a platform to cry about how the other kids picked on you.
I'd agree, this show is overrated. Kamille is the Whiniest main character in the franchise, hands down, Suck it You See fanboys.
I really hate when the reviewer's opinion of a fanbase influence the review. It's just dumb. That said I agree with you. And if new types were bad then so are Coordinators, Innovaders and X-Rounders.
Factual inaccuracies? Please. Do a search of the Gundam thread sometime and you'll find a very lengthy conversation about the sexism is Zeta (and many of Tomino's other works).
What the... how is this show not sexist? The protagonist blathers on about how women shouldn't be exposed to war TO HIS FELLOW FEMALE SOLDIERS, and Reccoa happily joins a fascist regime over Char not making her his boo.
I think it was all right, but that, the pseudo-philosophical BS about Earth's gravity and Kamille's Newtype love affairs really grated on me.
Far too dated, but I'm sure it was pretty good for its time.
Finally someone who agrees with my views on this show but I would also like to add one thing to the list. The incredibly lackluster ending. It's just, the Big Bad is dead, the end. No proper conclusion of any kind. The only thing I can say I like about this show is the music and that is about it.
Just a few details to clear up, The O had anti-beam weapon technology integrated with it, and the space-warping powers were a result of a part of the Zeta Gundam called the biosensor, that allowed it do tdue so. That being said the fact that this capability isn't mentioned till near the end (although it is ARGUABLY foreshadowed) does seem like kinda an asshole. What bugs me about Kamille isn't so much the wining persay, as the NATURE of the whining. I can sympathise with Shinji from Eva to some extent because I can understand being caught caught between wanting affection, and being scared of being hurt. But Kamille's line of "It's Your Fault I Killed You," always struck me as a way to run away from from responsibity of the deaths caused, and not even a good one. If it was more along the lines of not wanting to kill but recognizing the nessicty of it, THAT I could understand.. But his flat out VICTIOM-BLAMING always upset me, due to the shear logical fuck-up. FYI I AM autistic and socially awkward, but would like to think that even I would never be that bad. Too be fair though I had and still have loving and supportive parents who have helped me out along the way, something that Kamille never did.
Zeta isn\'t for everyone but how fans treated you is kind of irrelevant. I find most fandoms to be pretty toxic and try to avoid them, I don\'t judge the works based on that or I\'d hate everything. The characters are definitely a big sticking point for people, you either grow to like them or you hate them.
I wouldn\'t really consider Zeta a sacred cow anymore. It\'s actually more popular these days for the Gundam fandom to point out Zeta\'s faults than it is to praise it. Zeta was put on a pedestal back in the old days before it had any official releases and barely anyone had seen it. People tended to judge it based on the mecha designs alone and what little was known about it.
For me it\'s a lot like 0079. It\'s a good show with a lot of problems. Admittedly it\'s pretty sexist by today\'s standards but it\'s actually on the progressive side for anime of its time with women serving as part of the military. Unfortunately a lot of old-timey and uncomfortable Japanese views on gender still work their way in. None of that excuses it mind you, I\'m just trying to put it into its proper context. You lost me at Newtypes having racist implications though especially since it\'s the newtypes who end up subjugated and weaponized (particularly by the Federation) throughout this and other series. When they are presented as superior beings it\'s usually done in a very negative, Nazi-ish way. The implications surrounding newtypes are in many ways meant to make you feel a little uncomfortable after all, though I agree it\'s annoying that from Zeta onward they\'ve basically turned into Jedi.
And if I you think the Zeta Gundam\'s design is bad... well... no wonder everyone hates you! (just kidding, though it is one of my favorite mecha designs, period.)
Eh, this was my first-ever review, written when I was a younger and angrier person hot off literally being told, both over the Internet and to his face, by a number of people that the only reason he could've possibly liked SEED more was that he was too stupid to appreciate it. I should probably go back and rework it someday, but... I'd have to re-watch Zeta to do it justice, and, to be honest with both you and myself, I've just got too many negative feelings wrapped up in the show to give it an honest second chance.
I do appreciate your fair and honest response though. Thanks.
...And, to be fair, "racism" is probably the wrong word choice. It's mostly the whole "next stage in human evolution into a superior class of being!" biz that is a part and parcel of who and what they are, and where they fit into the series' mythology, which I have never really liked and felt, both at the time and now, smacked of nasty Real World philosophies like eugenics.
Also, I mentally sort the Zeta Gundam itself into two different piles: Pile one being "taken from the last show," as in its mecha mode, and pile two being the silly Transforming Mecha plane mode that I don't really feel ought to be in something trying for a harder, more-realistic class of science fiction, but hey! You do you.
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