Reviews WesternAnimation / Avatar The Last Airbender

I gotta agree with Zuko. I believed his characterization and journey through redemption as a brash, hot-headed and violent royal teen embarking on a quest to earn the aproval of his father to a regretful, humbled individual with still much to learn and get pass but trying to do the right thing. But then they start telling his story before the start of the series and it just feels like a completely different person. This meek, kind and respecful kid that disagrees with his nations practices, does a 180 to start the series.

I\'d guess the point of that is that the trauma of his father burning and disowning him changed him, but we don\'t get to see the transition. And we don\'t see the old kind Zuko shine through much (at least not in conflict with the Fire Nation), except towards his Morality Pet uncle and when he finally tells off Ozai.

\"And we don\'t see the old kind Zuko shine through much...\"

We actually do. The first two examples that come to mind are the following:

- The Storm (if I bad don\'t remember, is been so long since I last watched the show): Meanwhile a storm is raging the backstories of both Aang and Zuko is being told. Meanwhile this happens one of Zuko\'s crewmates nearly falls to the raging waters but Zuko rescues him. This showcases his kindness.

- Zuko Alone: This entire episode is about how humble and kind Zuko could be if he simply dropped his \"honor\" vice. He helps a poor family for no good reason and even blows up his disguise simply because he wanted to protect this poor village he just got to know.

And like those there are a ton more (just check the Hearthwarming section). He is a kind person at his core, yet his vice is what is holding him back. And for that am gonna bring an argument Miin U made in the Korra review: \"Old habits are hard to break\", this is also true of vices, even more so than old habits, so it is understandable that he would fall back and that he would require a lot of time to finally be able to overcome his.

@megagutsman If you\'re going to quote me, you should include necessary context: \"And we don\'t see the old kind Zuko shine through much (AT LEAST NOT IN CONFLICT WITH THE FIRE NATION)\"

I get that Zuko can sometimes be kind, but what I didn\'t get was the idea that it put him at odds with his father and people, except the instances I mentioned. Yes, he defends a poor family from cruel soldiers, but those were EARTH kingdom soldiers.

\"...but what I didn\'t get was the idea that it put him at odds with his father and people,...\"

But we did get that as well. All of that was represented with his sister Azula. Her bigotry is how the rest of the world sees the Fire Nation and we do see him at odds with her.

Also, we do see that the Fire Nation can be kind as well, just some examples would include Aang\'s first fire master, the Sun Tribe (forgot full name, sorry) and even Aang\'s classmates in the Headband episode (again, is been long since I watched the show, so I might have named the wrong episode).

The thing is that we don\'t see Zuko interacting with FIRE NATION people, but it has good reason: He has been disbarred. He has no way to interact with them till either he returns home or till the finale. And when he returned home, thanks to his own self-doubt, he didn\'t move much.

He was at odds with Azula because she tried to capture him, and then they competed to catch Aang. It had nothing to do with bigotry.

I get that members of the Fire Nation can be kind, but their king, their leaders, military, and foreign policies are largely invasive and cruel. That was what I wanted to see Zuko struggle with morally, but it never came up till he turned on his father.

Zuko DID interact with Fire Nation people. Like Zhao, other soldiers, and the aforementioned Azula. But he never conflicted with them over their practices, just whenever they threatened him or got in the way of his own plans to catch Aang.

I agree with Ninja here, despite being a huge fan of Zuko's redemption arc. The transition from compassionate for my fellow citizens Zuko to honor is the most important thing Zuko was not shown enough and came off as abrupt. Not that the 180 itself is bad in particular, but we don't get to see his transition after he got scarred. Perhaps a scene where he looks at his scarred face when he wakes up and swears off being kind.

"He was at odds with Azula because she tried to capture him, and then they competed to catch Aang."

And then he joined the Gaang and started to fight his father, giving him a major reason to fight her.

"That was what I wanted to see Zuko struggle with morally, but it never came up till he turned on his father."

Because prior to that he was on the Fire Nation side and wanted to be recognized yet again by his father, ergo, he turned a blind eye because he didn't want to give his father motive to not let him return.

After his character development we simply don't see him morally struggling against his nation because he's with the Gaang and the Gaang barely interacts with the Fire Nation since that point onwards till the finale and because he has decided to do this. Any episode added sorely so we could see him struggling against his country would have felt like filler.

"But he never conflicted with them over their practices, just whenever they threatened him or got in the way of his own plans to catch Aang."

Because all of those interactions happened prior to his character development, so he still had his honor vice to deal with.

While Zuko had enough decency to speak out against the idea of sacrificing soldiers for a tactical advantage, he also didn't have a problem with the Fire Nation's war of global conquest at the time. He doesn't completely lose his compassion for others, even as he becomes obsessed with capturing the Avatar for the sake of his honor, but he also doesn't learn that his nation is in the wrong or gain the courage to oppose his father until he's had two and a half seasons' worth of Character Development (worth noting that when he agreed to the Agni Kai, he didn't know that he'd be fighting his father).

I agree with you both: Zuko turned a blind eye and so didn\'t struggle morally, and he didn\'t have a problem with the Fire Nation\'s global conquest. That\'s why I didn\'t like his story. He\'s fine with it, then suddenly he isn\'t fine.

To make myself more clear, at the time he\'s in the land of the people being hurt and invaded, he doesn\'t show he has any problems with the Fire Nation\'s war.

Thing is that it is easier to turn a blind eye if you don\'t see first hand all the wrongs you are trying to ignore, and this easily could fit Zuko prior to being banished. After being banished he would require to see more of the world and, more importantly, that time he lived both on the run and as a commoner in Ba Sing Se to finally understand how bad the Fire Nation really is.

But that\'s my point: he DIDN\'T show he had any problems with the Fire Nation\'s war WHILE HE WAS BANISHED. That\'s why I didn\'t like his story.

To continue the point. chronologically, Zuko from the present storyline (that is, from his arrival at the southern water tribe to the end of the series) makes sense. He slowly develops into a better person, but he strugles, relents, stumbles and falls back to his old ways several times until the end. Past Zuko to the current storyline is the one that feels disjointed. While he spents 2 years in exhile, it is 2 years just traveling aimlessly with, of all people, Iroh. Zuko looks very foreign and clumsy when he tries to chose the correct way to go about being a "kind" person (I would use a different word IMO) similarly to characters like Stitch, Endeavor, Peridot and the diamonds. This clashes (specialy with the addition of the comics) with a past where he was inclined to help the weak, do the right thing and several issues with his father.

@Ninja: \"...he DIDN\'T show he had any problems with the Fire Nation\'s war...\"

Because the war didn\'t affect him at all on his quest to catch the Avatar so he didn\'t care. Is not till he has his character development that he decides to care about the war at all.

As for why he didn\'t care prior? Simple, is because of his honor vice. Again, vices are hard to break and they can and will cloud your better judgment just so you can keep doing them. Am not saying that him having this vice is good, what am saying is that it is a flaw that makes him more realistic and believable.

@Marcell: \"While he spents 2 years in exhile, it is 2 years just traveling aimlessly with, of all people, Iroh.\"

Iroh wouldn\'t have trained him as hard as we saw him training Zuko during those 2 years because there\'s no Avatar to catch. Meanwhile Zuko is in this wild goose chase Iroh knows that Zuko will be far away from their family and that\'s what he wants. His end goal being convincing Zuko to finally settle down somewhere and forget anything about their family.

However, the second Zuko discovers the Avatar is the second Iroh has to pass from passive to active in his training so Zuko wont lose himself. That\'s why Iroh was trying to teach him the basics, to clue Zuko in the idea of abandoning his \"honor quest\".

\"This clashes (specialy with the addition of the comics) with a past where he was inclined to help the weak, do the right thing and several issues with his father.\"

However, back then he was a princeling that gave everything he had in his life for granted. Is not till his Agni Kai with his father and his subsequent banishment that he discovers how fleeting such a life really was. And I can guarantee you that such an event would change anybody for the worse. And with good reason, after all, he wanted to recover both his honor and his father\'s good graces.

Also, honor was very important during the samurai era of Japan (the inspiration behind the Fire Nation). So it makes sense that somebody from said place would care a lot about their honor.

@megagutsman Just because you have vices doesn\'t mean you can\'t show some regret or uncertainty. I\'d have found Zuko more compelling if he did so while in exile, witnessing the hurting people.

\"I\'d have found Zuko more compelling if he did so while in exile, witnessing the hurting people.\"

Thing is that he barely witness any of that either. The only time he really witnessed this he helped. The rest of the time they were in wastelands, desserts, oceans and the like. And just adding an episode or two so we can see Zuko react to the disgraces brought up by the Fire Nation would have been bad filler.

It didn\'t have to be episodes, it could have just been small moments. The Gaang had them, and they traversed similar places.

\"...it could have just been small moments.\"

But wouldn\'t that have been not only too little but also way too subtle of a fix for a \"problem\" like this?.

Not necessarily. Subtleties can add a lot.

Even then, with how subtle your fix became, I would say that your problem looks now like it was a nitpick at best.

Well, to each their own. It\'s something I\'d like a lot.

I mean, that is just how I see this issue. As for the others? you yourself explained it already in your review: Hype Backlash and taste. That\'s all that is going on here. At LA was just not for you.

Yep. Not a fan.

@megagutsman

Which is exactly why it doesn\'t make much sense. Zuko is away from his family and the fire main for 2 years with arguably the best person in modern western fiction, yet he goes through such a drastic and deep rooted change for the worse. Doing the right thing is such an alien concept to him even while actively trying to do it. Like I said, if you only take it from his initial characterization from ep 1 onwards, then it works, but then when you find out the way he was for 14 yrs, not as much.

@Marcell: It is believable, I have seen that happen a lot. As I said prior, Iroh wouldn\'t have been as active on trying to nurture Zuko because they are away from their family, so Zuko can grow however he pleases, this can be seen in their training (Iroh had 2 years to teach Zuko the basics, yet he is still doing so by episode 1), in other words, Iroh was complacent probably because, deep down, he was treating Zuko as a replacement for his own son lost in the war. Yet the only reason why Iroh becomes active once the Avatar appears is because he knows Zuko will be more active now and fears that that could cause Zuko to become like his father.

I just deleted a review about Zuko that I felt had broken the rules, but I think it\'s legal to repost my thoughts here, since Zuko is what started this long comment chain to begin with:

Although I didn\'t care much for the characters of Avatar, Zuko, and by extension his uncle and mentor Iroh, are probably the ones I liked most.

The character of Zuko, Prince of the Fire Nation, could broadly be described as that of a young man torn between two father figures. On the one hand, his father Fire Lord Ozai serves as the voice of greed, pride, frustration, and shame. Zuko hunts the Avatar out of fear and shame in his eyes. On the other hand, his uncle Iroh is the voice of kindness, humility, contentment, and hope. Zuko changes sides chiefly out of reverence for his uncle and his guilt in betraying him.

And... that\'s all good. I liked that; it\'s probably my favorite aspect of the whole show. It\'s just... I was craving something a little more.

I think a person is about more than what wise (or unwise) fatherly figure(s) they embrace. They are also defined by how they take that wisdom and use it in how they treat others. And unfortunately, this is where I found Zuko disappointing, because all his other relationships are pretty shallow.

Zuko has sparse personal interaction with the Gaang, even after his reformation. Despite visiting many places and people hurt by the War, during his exile he doesn\'t seem conflicted in the least about their plight at the hands of the Fire Nation. The only possible instance I can recall is his encounter with a girl scarred by Fire Nation soldiers. His expressed concern for the world at large after his redemption consists of two speeches about world peace and denouncing full-blown genocide. Not extremely compelling.

His mother is presented as an important figure in his life, but she\'s relegated to flashbacks and her fate is left a mystery. She apparently returns in the comics which I haven\'t read. He has no lost love for his evil sister Azula, and his girlfriend Mai is mostly a satellite. There\'s a brief comment about how her parents\' strictness made her afraid to openly care about anything, so that\'s something I guess.

In the end, there were only two relationships I somewhat cared about. One was an Earth Kingdom farm boy who befriends Zuko but turns on him when he learns his true identity... which was actually kind of heartbreaking. The other is an Earth Kingdom refugee with a love of lanterns that goes on a date with Zuko, who risks his secret identity to make her happy. That was rather cute.

Hey man, if it helps at all, I think you raise a good point. I am a fan of the show, but I did watch it when I was a kid and I would probably agree with you if I watched it with a fresh pair of eyes now. What bugs me is that Zuko made the decision to switch after reading the scrolls and realizing that it was his \"destiny\" to help the Avatar, which never struck me as a compelling reason, as if the fact that his father was trying to conquer the world wasn\'t reason enough. Sure, most of the impetus was because he realized having his father\'s approval wasn\'t all that great, but I don\'t think \"destiny\" or family history should have been the main motivating force.

Structurally speaking it is a good redemption arc in that he goes through change slowly and has many back and forth\'s with himself.