Reviews Webcomic / El Goonish Shive

Wait, you think the comic is creepy because of all of the odd fetish and transgender material in it, and the solution to this problem is to add sex and even more weirdness in there? The only way that even remotely makes sense is Refuge In Audacity, and even then I don't think it would lessen any creepiness from it.

This is a really strange review. You're razzing the author for having sex-related things that you think are creepy, then accusing him of being the prude?

I'm only passingly familiar with the series, but I'm pretty sure the strip isn't prudish.

I think what he means is that a lot of the drama comes from the character's fetishes, sexual orientations, etc., yet we almost never actually see any of the characters doing anything sexual in nature other than kissing. It's a bit weird having characters discussing their sexual quirks when it doesn't seem than any of them have ever actually had sex. The sole exception to that is Ellen's whole Second Life thing, and many consider it a Wall Banger. Although it might explain why Shive seems to be avoiding the subject.

Japanese Teeth is correct.

I take exception to the statement that only manga-ish art can tell manga-ish stories. That is the most complete utter bullshit I've ever read. /hyperbole

I agree with the person above me, I was gonna comment but they summed it up nicely.

Japanese teeth is right on, but I think that's the attraction of EGS. It's a bunch of creepy fetishes that the author can only write about indirectly because he's totally insane.

Okay then. I'll just leave before I blow up in anger. <3

To be honest, my friends talk about sexual orientations and fetishes and so on - their weird like that and for the most part are joking - and none of us have had it so the characters are quite understandable to me as is the drama that comes with it.

EGS has a unique and intersting storyline, and though it has issues with subplots and many character quirks, it is still a shining comic to read. That you see fetishes in it is your own problem, I have never had the problem of having my mind drop to the gutter so fast or far. And as for the weirdness, well what's wrong with that?

I think you're reading a wee bit deep here. You claim you read it 'ironically', then have this Freudian analysis on every remotely sexual aspect of the story. Nice job there.

You might notice that the characters are actually treated like characters rather than seething masses of sexuality, and that's pretty impressive considering that they're hormonal teenagers. Also, the romance is almost purely emotional, especially for Ellen and Nanase.

Frankly, I think you're completely off the mark with the whole review. Except for Tedd—Dan himself has admitted to that one—and of course the 'too many plotlines' bit.

The one thing I agree with is that Dan takes things far too seriously. Too much of the story is spent explaining what might happen, and if that doesn't happen, he adds a huge and overcomplicated commentary.

I'm not going to lie; I'm a fan. All of my opinions are of course biased in this regard. However, I'll try and keep myeself on the objective table here, this is a respectable area for debate.

You start out this review with comments like 'Generally this is a bad series with low-quality execution of it's ideas', and while some of the plots are a little off, calling it 'a bad series' does nothing for your credibility. You end it with 'Also, the storylines are incoherent and suck.' Incoherent? Perhaps, but that's not a big problem, if you're willing to put some thought into untangling them, and I am. 'Suck', however, is a rather silly word to describe a comic in what one must assume is a serious interview. I won't attempt to hold you to a professional standard, but you undermine yourself from the start. Further, you make no attempt to back up your comment with fact. Comments on it's artwork I'll ignore, I'm no artist and thus have no basis upon which to comment.

To get past the superficial aspects, you seem to find a lot of subtext I've never seen. Whether that's my own failing or not, you also seem to have confused S&M, sadism & masochism i.e. whipping, causing pain, etc., with bondage and a D/s relationship, a common misconception, but a misconception at that. Next you say Tedd and Grace bring a furry fetish into the mix. Probable, very probable, but are you saying that a furry fetish is a negative one? Or am I looking too deep? I'll respect your opinions but calling out the furry fandom isn't going to win you any points. Neither is saying Shive needs mental help, for that matter.

Your way of ending the review makes no sense after what you have said above. Commentary along the lines that it's irrepairable, along with comdemnation of its creepyness, don't mesh well for your mild 'just give up your serious business' attitude in the ending.

That's my meta-review, feel free to ignore it if you want. That said, this review smells a little fishy to me, so, if I hbt, stis.

LOL INTERNET TOUGH GUYZ.

firstly, pretty much everything said by Tarnizial is completely correct

otherwise, I laughed when I read this review until I realised that you actually meant it. firstly, the point about the artwork. the fact of the matter is that Dan's people actually look like people. add to that the fact that manga style is much harder on the eyes, and you already have good reasons for the existing style.

your second point, Ellen/Nanase. neither has been shown to have anything to do with Domination or S/M at any point in the comic. They actually have a normal relationship, essentially that of a boy- and girlfriend who broke up and got together again. equally, with Ellen we have no evidence whatsoever of Elliot ever having wanted to turn into a girl. As for Rhoda/Diane, there is no evidence or implication that they have anything more than a normal friendship. Diane simply realises that Rhoda looks up to her somewhat for protection and support, and provides it, albeit in an occasionally patronising way

Second, unless you are possessed with either clairvoyancy or some form of major in Psychology, I fail to see how you can claim that Tedd in some way represents Dan's sexuality. Each of the main eight fit into certain stereotypes: Tedd fulfills the 'chivalrous pervert' stereotype, as well as the broad characterization of men in general as being somewhat perverted. Grace, meanwhile, has the stereotype of the somewhat naive fanservice girl. yes, she fits heavily into the furry retish realm, bit Dan has specifically used this to give her somewhat more depth and characterization. as to the sexuality mark, I await confirmation of your abilities that lead you to make this assertion. As for Dan's preferences, I do not presume to know what Dan likes or wants, but to say that Grace is the collaboration of Dan's various desires is going extremely far, particularly in light of the fact that you claim that Elliot is in fact Dan's representative, which (assuming we are taking the comic as some bizarre portrayal of Dan's ideal world, as you for some unexplained reason are) more heavily implies that Sarah is Dan's ideal.

As for Elliot being a representative of Dan, I admit that with Elliot being a somewhat stylized, ideal 'good guy' this may in fact be the case. but equally, it is highly likely that he is simply there as another key character type. Similarly, Ellen provides the 'opposite sex clone' trope popular in many works of fiction (although admittedly prominent in webcomics of all varieties).

The comment on storyline complexity/validity is entirely an unjustified opinion. While I personally believe that the quality of the writing, the quite intense depth of the plot and the degree to which it draws the reader into it to all be good things, clearly you disagree. however, I would say that most any well-reviewed work of fiction has all of these to at least the same depth, as without them storylines have little of the effect that motivates a reader to turn the next page, read the next line, watch the next scene etc and becomes more akin to a story for small children

Coming to your last point, I also agree with the above expressed opinion that it is somewhat contradictory. You criticise Dan for these 'Fetish' labels which you have planted onto him without justification or reasoning, and yet equally express a desire to see more sex and wierdness. Some people would consider the idea of watching cartoon characters have sex just as 'creepy' as you claim these labels to be.

In conclusion, I find your review to be in desperate need of attention and justification to gain at least a semblance of credibility. While I understand you are completely entitled to your opinion, I urge you to gain the familiarity with the comic to a greater degree than your proliferation of unjustified and in a few cases completely contrary comments suggests. Should you achieve both of these things, I believe it highly likely that your opinions will change dramatically, or that at least your reviews may be seen in lights other than that of a mindless 'troll

Wow. All this over-analyzing, just like at the comic's forums. Weird, the Internet is.

Why should anyone have to use manga style? The choice of art style is completely up to the artist. Might as well say that Order Of The Stick should be drawn in the style of the Conan The Barbarian comic because it's an epic fantasy story.

Anybody who reads anything ironically doesn't deserve to review it. Or wears ironic clothing, or listens to/plays ironic music. The whole "irony" thing basically just makes whatever you say or do seem irritating.

The author invites over-analyzing. His updates any more include links to five or so related comics, and a discussion of what happened, and references to the arcane magic system.

And if you don't see a fetish subtext to a tale of furries and lesbians and a main character constantly turning into a girl of various fetishes, you are simple-minded or in denial.

Haha. This review is really... just... it's like a parody, but it looks so serious.

First of all, just where did you find the S&M subtext, I really fail to understand. Power struggle problems are common to relationships, and it's like when some relationship doesn't have them and is just healthy in this way from the start, then it's S&M? Why would someone think that.

Second, while the author has made a lot of jokes about how he inserts personal preferences in the comic, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual story he tells. Well, in the later arcs at least. The story and the characters have their own appeal, which, if at times a bit silly, is not sexualised at all.

Of course you _can_ read anything into the story and dislike it based on your own headcanon, but that's no ground for a serious review.

And Nice Smile, if you think lesbians are only to be used as a fetish in the stories and not SUDDENLY to be explored and have interesting character dynamics then... well, I dislike your views on the subjects and I think many people do equally. As for furries, good luck looking at the kids' cartoons' characters, they must be SO sexy for you, I don't know.