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Jan 10th 2017 at 10:19:35 AM •••

The pre-release section is a mess full of Square Peg, Round Trope objective misuse, outdated speculation and stuff that can apply to the main article and became a duplicate. It's really unnecessary and I'm axing it altogether because it was built in violation of the rule about troping unpublished work and is a recipe for disorder, but I'm pasting it here in case anything is salvageable. I'm merging the worthy entries in the main section. Work in progress.

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  • Author's Saving Throw: Supplementary materials such as Disneyland attractions confirmed that Anakin/Luke's lightsaber was salvaged from Cloud City some time after Luke lost it there (along with his hand) in The Empire Strikes Back.
  • Base-Breaking Character: Kylo Ren, whom fans are split on for the exact same reason -he's a Darth Vader Clone. Either he's going to be a worthy successor or a hopelessly pale imitation. Then you've got a third, equally vocal faction which says we barely know anything about him and should just wait and see. In the end, he turned out to be surprisingly different from Vader, for better or for worse.
  • Broken Base: It's Star Wars. What did you expect? Not everyone is convinced that more movies are needed, that Disney and JJ Abrams will do a good job, some don't like the title, think it's too similar to the old films, the dialogue is corny, the crossguard lightsaber is either ridiculously cool or ridiculously silly... The list goes on and on, and would probably break the wiki by the time the movie comes out listing everything.
  • Counterpart Comparison: Kylo Ren has many similarities to the Arkham Knight: he's an easily-angered Heavy initially known only by his title, is obsessed with a pivotal moment or character in the franchise's past, wields customized weaponry and wears a distinctive helmet.
  • Ensemble Dark Horse:
    • Max Von Sydow has become something of a Memetic Badass with some fans for his imposing appearance, epic voice, and film resume more impressive than the rest of the cast (Original Trilogy cast included) combined. A lot of people want him to be the Big Bad.
    • BB-8 seems to be garnering a lot of fan love thanks to his unique and fun looking design. Furthered by the reveal that he's a remote-controlled prop, making the character an awesome special effects achievement.
    • The First Order riot control Stormtrooper, who whips out a shock baton to battle Finn, despite Finn being armed with a lightsaber at that point.
  • Epileptic Trees: There was a theory on Reddit that Kylo Ren was really The Phantom Menace's Jar Jar Binks, and that he had been a Sith collaborator working in the shadows since Palpatine. Not so much.
  • Evil Is Cool: Some think Kylo Ren seems set to continue the fine tradition kick-started by the character he's an Expy of.
  • Fan-Preferred Couple: Finn and Rey became this even before their official names were announced, based on the chemistry between Daisy Ridley and John Boyega over social media.
  • Fan Wank:
    • Because J. J. Abrams has not been able to live down being misblamed for the studio-enforced cover-up of John Harrison's identity, people have used the incident to justify some really out-there theories.
    • There have been a surprising number of theories that Jakku is Tatooine under a different name, even when the planet has explicitly been described as being a new world in spite of the similar biome. The planet being completely different is obvious considering the lack of Binary Suns. Star Wars: Aftermath explicitly disproved this.
    • There was also a theory that Kylo Ren is Luke Skywalker in disguise... even though Adam Driver was previously shown in multiple photographs in costume, and the last trailer briefly shows a shot of the back of his head while he's unmasked, which is covered with black hair that looks nothing like Mark Hamill's.
  • Hilarious in Hindsight:
  • HSQ:
    • The IMAX dogfight/chase scene, which features the Millennium Falcon and a TIE fighter flying into a Super Star Destroyer.
    • The final trailer for the movie, which blew away pretty much everybody's expectations.
  • Internet Backdraft:
    • Fans were vocally irritated at the lack of a trailer at SDCC 2015 or Disney D23 2015. It started to create a bit of anti-hype from the fanbase, with many expressing concerns that waiting so long to release new footage could be bad for the movie's box office returns. Though once the final trailer was released this concern was proved misguided as tickets were sold out mere hours afterwards and no less then three ticket selling sites crashed from influx. All this two months before official release.
    • Fans of Kylo Ren, especially those who put him in leather pants, freak out when Word of God reveals things that make him seem more evil than before. First there was "Ashgate", when JJ Abrams revealed that the dust from Kylo's interrogation scene is actually the ashes of enemies he's killed. Then there was "Bloodgate", in which Star Wars: Bloodline reveals that Kylo Ren was in his twenties when he betrayed Luke rather than a teen as was previously thought (See the entry for Fanon).
    • Bringing the very idea of Rey and Kylo Ren as a romantic couple, speculating on Rey not being a Skywalker, or speculating on Ren's possible redemption is enough to send some portions (particularly Rey Skywalker fans and "anti-Reylos") of the fanbase ablaze. If someone were to even entertain the idea of Rey being someone other than a Skywalker and suggest Kylo Ren would be redeemed to due his supposed status as the "last" Skywalker by default, other fans would become enraged and start accusing the poster of supporting an abusive pairing (ignoring that that's technically incorrect), being ignorant to Ren's crimes, or having an agenda to distort speculations for Reylo to happen.
  • It's the Same, So It Sucks: There are a portion of people complaining that the film looks too similar to the Original Trilogy in that very little new material was shown besides updates of existing ships, armor, etc., the presence of a Darth Vader Clone, and the poster featuring what appears to be a Death Star-like superweapon.
  • Memetic Mutation:
    • Star Wars/Disney crossover fanart flooded the internet once word got out that the movie was being made. The notion that Leia was technically a Disney Princess now is probably the most common one.
    • BB-8's movement seems to have garnered a number of appropriate captions, in particular his resemblance to a football with an R2 head attached to it, leading to the logical conclusion.
    • The similarity between Finn in the desert and the "We ain't found shit!" scene from Spaceballs has been noted. Images of Finn in cold sweat are also popular sources of parody.
    • It's become popular to photoshop multiple blade emitters onto Kylo Ren's crossguard lightsaber. See it yourself.
    • Finn being perpetually sweaty and surprised-looking.
    • Due to BB-8's popularity, people wondering if he'll be The Scrappy or just plain evil.
    • Kylo Ren's obsession with Darth Vader while knowing almost nothing about him has been the source of many jokes, from Kylo being a Loony Fan to Anakin's ghost disowning him.
    • After the theatrical trailer, "It's true, all of it", followed or preceeded by something ridiculous is gaining some steam i.e. "The Imperials lost to a bunch of teddy bears?")
    • #starwarsjacketspeculation. Inspired by a theory revolving around Finn's jacketnote , people have now become obsessed with the various jackets seen in Star Wars.
    • A Reddit user who had claimed to have seen the entire movie two times in advance claimed that the final line in the film was Luke saying "My baby girl!" to Rey. Needless to say, Star Wars-related subreddits and other fan sites have frequently mocked the line for all the hypothetical narm. (And those who believe the two characters are actually father-and-daughter affectionately call Rey "Luke's baby girl".)
    • Once the actual script leaked on the internet, spoiling Han's death at Kylo's hands in random unrelated forums and comment sections became a meme in the days leading up to the film's release.
  • Memetic Badass: Kylo Ren has quite a reputation among some of the fanbase. While he became something of a Memetic Loser post-release, there are still some fans who find him to be scary and effective despite his lack of experience.
  • Moral Event Horizon: Kylo Ren crosses the line when he orders his troops to slaughter an entire village.
    • Lampshaded and discussed - Kylo Ren actually worries that he hasn't passed this, that he still feels the pull of the Light Side.
  • Older Than They Think:
    • Disney wasn't actually the first to get this movie in motion - according to his son, George Lucas was experimenting with a script for a potential Sequel Trilogy, though he was conflicted as to whether or not he should keep going or if he should just move on like he always wanted to (some of the latter supported by Artist Disillusionment due to what he described as Fan Dumb). He Took a Third Option once he was approached by Disney and decided it was time let a new generation bring life to the world he built, and he is also considering between retiring entirely or moving on to direct films that he wants to make for art's sake after years of discussing the idea.
    • The crossguard lightsaber was actually created for a Dark Horse Comics series (albeit with two blades instead of three) and is not original to this film, despite the complaints to the contrary.
    • In many ways, Rey evokes Luke in A New Hope. Lucas experimented with making the protagonist female when he was writing it.
    • BB-8 is based on Ralph McQuarrie's first concept for R2-D2.
    • Poe Dameron's squad of fighters is based on Ralph McQuarrie's first concept for the X-wing fighter.
    • A very bizarre version, in that some people seem to act as if John Boyega's black leading character, Finn, is something new to the Star Wars films. These people apparently somehow forgot about Mace Windu and Lando Calrissian.
    • Some were surprised how Finn could be a Stormtrooper, under the assumption that Stormtroopers are clone troopers. However, both the original Legends and the current Expanded Universe works have shown that the Empire began recruiting regular citizens and all clone troopers were taken out of combat duties because of their Rapid Aging.
    • Luke's monologue in the second teaser has been mistaken for a completely new line. While he did record the lines for the teaser in 2015, they're the same as the lines from Return of the Jedi — in fact, both the original delivery of the line and the new recording are played together.
    • A lot of hype was made about the return to the use of practical sets and models like in the Original Trilogy. While the Prequel Trilogy relied a lot on green screen and computer generated effects, there were a lot of practical sets and models used there.
    • Flying a freighter into the interior of a wrecked Super Star Destroyer appeared in the final adventure module of the Star Wars RPG adventure path Dawn of Defiance back in 2009.
    • Luke's lightsaber being salvaged was used in the Legends continuity before in the Thrawn Trilogy.
    • There was some criticism of Finn using the phrase "Hell, no!" in one of the TV spots, with some fans claiming that referencing the Christian concept of Hell made no sense in the Star Wars universe. They seemed to have forgotten that Han famously told a fellow Rebel "I'll see you in Hell!" in The Empire Strikes Back, and asked Leia "What the Hell are you doing?!" all the way back in A New Hope. note 
    • Disney's decision to pull a Happy Ending Override, Orwellian Retcon an entire Expanded Universe, create a brand-new one, but strip the old one shamelessly for parts and character concepts they want to recycle? Yeah, they did it before. Just ask a TRON fan about Tron 2.0 or the Tron: Ghost in the Machine comic.
  • Pandering to the Base: Quite a lot of the news released has indicated that the movie will be styled after the Original Trilogy in visuals and design. Given the notorious Broken Base that Star Wars has garnered regarding the Prequel Trilogy and its CGI, this might be for the better.
  • They Changed It, Now It Sucks!: The Stormtrooper armor for some, especially due to its Apple-esque design, and the helmets' new mouth designs which look like they're making Cat Smiles (:3).
  • Viewer Gender Confusion: A lot of people thought Captain Phasma was a man at first, mainly due to the fact that she's yet to be seen without her armor on in any photos or footage. The only reason her gender has been confirmed was because it was explicitly revealed that Phasma is played by Gwendoline Christie.note 
  • Win the Crowd:
    • Disney was fighting an uphill battle in dealing with the Star Wars fanbase once they announced new movies were in the works. However, much of the upset portion of the fanbase has either calmed down or accepted the new trilogy thanks to their recent track record with the Marvel Cinematic Universe, as well as the announcements of some of the people who are in on the production; Lawrence Kasdan (the screenplay writer for The Empire Strikes Back), John Williams, J. J. Abrams, and the Original Trilogy leads in particular stand out.
    • As mentioned above, many fans were delighted to learn that the film would bring back Jim Henson-esque creatures and animatronics to some degree, which dismissed fears and assumptions that the movie would rely a lot on just CGI (a frequent criticism of the Prequel Trilogy).
    • Kevin Smith's reaction to being on the set (even crying Tears of Joy - multiple times) got a lot of people hyped for the movie, including his own detractors.
    • The final moments of the teaser, in which John Williams's theme comes storming back into cinemas alongside the Millennium Falcon as it goes head-to-head with TIE fighters.
    • From the second teaser, three simple words: "Chewie, we're home."
    • Judging from reactions across the internet, the final trailer did this for every second it played.

Some items moved to a new namespace due to lenght.

Edited by TrollBrutal
Aug 21st 2016 at 11:25:23 AM •••

Some of the examples were commented out for being excessively spoiler-tagged. Should there be a restriction for what gets spoiler-tagged and a warning that few spoilers will be tagged, similar to what's on the main page so these entries can be restored?

Feb 5th 2016 at 3:38:54 PM •••

Was removed by another troper (which I think I agree with) but had wanted to comment on this entry:

  • Informed Ability: Finn is said to be The Ace of the academy and that his training from birth is superior than the clone. Except he deserted his first fight and for a born soldier has a really bad case of nerves compared to the original clone. Even the new Stormtrooper being better here is if you ignore most of the OT Stormtrooper competent moments (Breaching into Leia's ship, destroying Hoth base and the trap they set in Endor among other) and the prequel.

I think the thing about Finn being The Ace is from a tie-in novel and I kind of agree that it isn't really reflected in the film, where he's out of his depth. Although, when Finn does have his bearings (i.e. when using a blaster and when he gets the courage to use a lightsaber), he is a pretty decent fighter.

As far as the capability of the Stormtroopers goes, I think the idea of the original trilogy ones being incompetent is more of a fan perception than reality, but while there's moments of competence in the original trilogy, Force Awakens does go out of its way to present them as more of a threat. The scene with the "TR-8R" Stormtrooper is definitely something you wouldn't see with the Original Trilogy Stormtroopers.

That being said, I don't know if Force Awakens actually does claim that its Stormtroopers are better, and the "defect" of potentially being less loyal is discussed by the film itself.

What is true is that the clone troopers experienced rapid aging/degeneration, which isn't an issue with the people like Finn who are conscripted/kidnapped.

Edited by Hodor2 Hide/Show Replies
Feb 5th 2016 at 5:39:49 PM •••

I agree, most of the stuff about the stormtroopers being bad soldiers or even bad shots is from taking scenes of the OT out of context and despite the trope Storm Trooper Marksmanship Academy, the people they are shooting at are usually under cover.

Feb 5th 2016 at 5:47:16 PM •••

It also stems a common misconception of how aiming works in combat situations, in combat, the vast majority of shots fired, as in more than 99%, are not intended to hit anything, at least at long range. It is suppression fire to force the enemy to take cover and not fire back while advancing to close range. That seems to be Stormtrooper tactics as well.

Feb 3rd 2016 at 12:27:31 PM •••

Jesus Christ, people are actually still pushing the "MR As boycotted Mad Max and Star Wars!" nonsense? It's as idiotic as the "Killgrave is an avatar of rape culture" bullshit.

Most of the articles all cited the same source in Return of Kings- a person who has said in no uncertain terms that he hates the MRM. Source for the Mad Max part:

Edited by Stormblessed Hide/Show Replies
Mar 22nd 2016 at 6:18:42 PM •••

It's not a matter of whether it's true or not, the fact that fans of both series believe it happened caused the fandoms to come closer together. Also you're the one who's conflating Return of Kings with MR As, considering the entry never mentioned anything about MR As, only Return of Kings and/or "misogynists".

Jan 12th 2016 at 1:28:02 PM •••

Moved this to discussion, hope okay:

  • Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy: A criticism that some people have of the movie is that it invalidates many of the heroes' accomplishments from the original trilogy.

That's not really what Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy means. The trope is more about casts entirely made up of unpleasant characters who do bad things to each other.

Granted, it can be appropriate in instances where good characters have nothing but bad things happen to them, but that's only sort of true of the original trilogy characters in the film.

What this example is talking about is Happy Ending Override, which is already on the main page for the film.

Edited by Hodor2 Hide/Show Replies
Jan 12th 2016 at 2:49:21 PM •••

Fair enough. Would it be Broken Base then? Even if many people are okay with what happens, it's still a criticism of the film by older fans. Even if Finn, Rey, and the newer characters find some happiness, it's at the expense of the old characters. Some people really don't like how:

1) Luke rebuilds the Jedi, only for Kylo Ren to stab him in the back and help slaughter them.

2) Anakin brings balance to the force, but it lasts for a few years at best. The Dark Side now seems even stronger than ever.

3) Snoke comes out of seemingly nowhere and reforges the remnants of the Empire into something arguably even more dangerous.

4) Leia and Han's relationship nearly falls apart. They spend many (?) lonely years apart and then make up, only for...

5) Han gets murdered by his own son.


As such, it's hard for some people to get invested in the new story; they feel that it invalidates many of the accomplishments of the original trilogy.

Edited by LifeofPi
Jan 12th 2016 at 3:39:10 PM •••

Thanks for the reply. I probably should have PM'ed you. Apologies for not doing so.

I'm not really sure how to answer about Broken Base. Because I'm sure there are older fans (I guess yourself included) that have this criticism but I don't get the sense that there's a huge contingent of people that had this reaction or even a consensus.

Part of why I deleted the example, besides it not really fitting that trope is because there seems to be this pattern of people editing the YMMV page and picking a trope by which to say "me and my friends hated this movie (and we are actually the majority view)".

I do actually kind of agree it is a problem how the new trilogy sets off the plot by having everything the previous characters worked for undone and I guess you could say that there is a split between people thinking it works to bring in a new generation of characters versus thinking it leaves a bitter taste because it undoes everything the heroes achieved.

I guess basically I could see there being a Broken Base entry over the film's use of Happy Ending Override, but there shouldn't be an entry that's saying "some people didn't like this"- because every work has a Vocal Minority that didn't like it.

Jan 6th 2016 at 6:47:30 PM •••

What's with the Edit War over TR-8R's name?

Edited by Tyrathius Hide/Show Replies
Jan 5th 2016 at 7:52:43 PM •••

For the record (apologies if I should have brought this up here in the first place) it doesn't fit the trope.

As far as I know, this is the highest critically and otherwise rated film by J.J. Abrams and even if you look at the opus as "Star Wars films" rather than Abrams' films specifically, it is also one of the highest (if not the highest) critically and audience rated.

The fact that like every work, it has a Vocal Minority (who believe themselves to be a "growing contingent") does not make it a Parvum Opus.

Dec 22nd 2015 at 12:56:38 PM •••

The entire edit war over the Mary Sue / Fandom Berserk Button entries proves why the latter entry was needed in the first place and that's kind of amazing.

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Dec 22nd 2015 at 1:10:18 PM •••

It's Star Wars. Fandom Berserk Button was a given from the day it was first announced. Proving to the Hulk that the Hulk is green.

Dec 22nd 2015 at 3:25:28 PM •••

Speaking of which, isn't the entire point of this YMMV? She is a Mary Sue for some people so... why delete it? The point of this section is that someone might hold that belief, even if someone disagrees.

Just because some "mainstream" (I'd hardly call io9, the only article about this debacle I partially read was from there, mainstream) outlets disagree it doesn't mean that the opinion of the people who agree becomes invalidated.

So, if I'm missing something, I'd like to know what it is.

Dec 22nd 2015 at 4:47:32 PM •••

I guess the takeaway from this is that if you raise a big enough stink, you can get any trope you don't like declared as flame bait.

Dec 22nd 2015 at 5:02:22 PM •••

Oh, Flame Bait is what I was missing, then.

Adding Star Wars to the list of fandoms I want nothing to do with.

Dec 22nd 2015 at 5:46:38 PM •••

Yep. Because people got mad about Rey being called a Mary Sue character, the Mary Sue trope is now considered Flame Bait for all of TV Tropes. Over 4,000 pages are now going to have to be edited to remove Mary Sue entries.

Edited by SnowHesher
Dec 22nd 2015 at 6:07:43 PM •••

One-by-one negative YMMV tropes are being picked off as "flame bait." Bleugh.

Still, the entry under Base Breaker works fine, I think.

Edited by zmanwarrior
Dec 22nd 2015 at 7:49:21 PM •••

Not to disagree, as Rey does sound rather Suetiful from what I hear, but Mary Sue has always been a fairly contentious concept since long before TV Tropes rolled around. Definitely Flame Bait territory. And considering this is the same fandom that made death threats against a Fox News reporter for dissing the series...

I'm honestly surprised the trope wasn't put on the list earlier.

Dec 25th 2015 at 8:49:01 PM •••

Still, removing the trope entirely seems more like taking one side of the flame war rather than trying to remove it. An entry saying this is a way some people view the character and that's all we're going to say on the topic seems a lot more neutral.

Dec 26th 2015 at 2:38:49 AM •••

Nah, we can shut down any arguments about it too. And deleting it is a good way to achieve this. "this is a way some people view the character" would also be a violation of the Zero-Context Example policy.

Dec 20th 2015 at 4:17:44 PM •••

Whenabouts is the YMMV page going to be unlocked? A couple weeks or so? Not pushing, just curious.

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Dec 20th 2015 at 6:52:11 PM •••

The list of locked pages states that the locks for The Force Awakens will be lifted when the opening weekend is concluded.

Dec 1st 2014 at 8:39:16 AM •••

Could someone explain this entry to me:

  • Narm: The claymore-esque lightsaber. Given that the blades don't actually have any weight, what's the point? And how do you keep from cutting your own arms off?

I mean, I get how the lightsaber could easily be Narm ("it's supposed to be badass, but I think it's silly" would be valid), but the actual explanation doesn't make a lick of sense to me. What does weight have to do with it? It's a handguard, it's actually pretty surprising it's the first lightsaber we've seen with one.

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Dec 1st 2014 at 9:42:06 AM •••

I think the idea there is that a regular claymore's effectiveness comes at least in part from how large and heavy it is. So the same design on a sword that's weightless makes little sense.

Dec 1st 2014 at 10:11:05 AM •••

That doesn't explain the hand guard at all though...

Dec 1st 2014 at 10:44:35 AM •••

The first and second questions are about unrelated points: One on the idea of having a weightless weapon designed after a weapon whose weight is the point; and one about the crossguard.

Dec 1st 2014 at 10:58:11 AM •••

Calling it claymore-esque is something that really the fandom has latched onto, though. It's not called a claymore in any official thing so far so it seems like a nonsensical issue. I'm just going to cut that bit and add actual reasons why it might be narm-y.

Nov 30th 2014 at 8:37:35 PM •••

I'm gonna object to two Broken Base entries:

  • And there are those who are simply baffled by the title. All the rest made sense, but how can the Force "awaken"?
Obi-Wan Kenobi: It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together.
Is the fact that the title might not make sense if taken completely literally (which is quite arguable) really enough of a sticking point for fans it should be noted here? And:
  • Another more trivial example: It's one word away from The Force Unleashed series of videogames, which have caused quite the Broken Base on their own because of its protagonist, arguably a Black Hole Sue, so some people don't want to be reminded of that.
The title is bad because it's kind similar to another Star Wars property some fans don't like? It's nearing the point we may need to lock this page and start a serious cleanup.

Edited by Hide/Show Replies
Dec 1st 2014 at 3:25:59 AM •••

Fans frequently get upset over seemingly trivial things. I see no issues with these entries.

Dec 1st 2014 at 3:43:26 AM •••

I think it should only be noted if a significant number of fans hold an opinion, these seem like something only one or two would hold.

Dec 1st 2014 at 6:13:25 AM •••

Well, how do you want to demonstrate either assertion?

Dec 1st 2014 at 8:08:36 AM •••

Good lord, are people really in that much of a hurry to find something to whine about with this movie?

Dec 23rd 2015 at 4:02:24 PM •••

It's Star Wars. Since when do the fans not get easily worked up over anything related to the franchise? They'd get butt-hurt over Luke Skywalker's Lightsaber being the wrong color.

Feb 27th 2016 at 5:09:34 PM •••

All sue tropes are Flame Bait. Do not link to them in work pages.

Nov 28th 2014 at 1:27:54 PM •••

I suggest removing that WTH Casting Agency entry. Not having female or minority actors isn't inherently a poor casting choice so it doesn't fit the trope.

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Dec 24th 2015 at 8:26:21 AM •••

It was probably put in there by racist assholes who'd want an all white male cast with a white male dominant lead.

Type the word in the image. This goes away if you get known.
If you can't read this one, hit reload for the page.
The next one might be easier to see.

How well does it match the trope?

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