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number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
Aug 11th 2018 at 1:43:28 AM •••

I don't want to add it back in just yet at the risk of getting into an edit war, but I have just a quick quibble about that They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot entry for Busan as a map.

I know that it's primarily a location, but one big thing people like to find in Overwatch maps is stuff related to lore and plot threads. I've seen a lot of people wishing Busan was an actual expansive South Korea map to find some environmental hints, especially since D.Va has been royally shafted from the lore front for years now.

Thanks for playing King's Quest V!
Razor21792 Since: Feb, 2013
Jul 18th 2018 at 7:23:23 PM •••

I would like to start a motion to put Overwatch's Scrappy Mechanics on its own page. The list has gotten extensive, and it's a slog scrolling through it all.

Hide / Show Replies
HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
Jul 18th 2018 at 8:36:24 PM •••

Before doing that, I'd suggest giving it a thorough cleaning and then seeing if it's still long enough to warrant it. The Removing complaining thread on the forums may be helpful.

NubianSatyress Curly Goddess Since: Mar, 2016
Curly Goddess
Sep 30th 2017 at 8:36:49 PM •••

Number 9 Robotic:

  • "Historically the ability has drawn a ton of complaints when it was an ultimate; there was a reason it was reworked in the first place.
    • Yes, but there's a massive argument at the same time that the people who ARE complaining about it are simply an Unpleasable Fanbase who hate Mercy being viable AT ALL. Similarly, there are also people who complain about Hanzo's Scatter Arrow, Mei's Freeze Gun, and Symmetra's primary fire. In short, people, will complain about ANY ability that makes them lose.
  • "Statistically speaking, Mercy has become much, much more common with a noticeable spike in total rezzed players per game, and while this is kinda anecdotal, regardless of whether they actually found the changes fun to play or not, just about everybody I've seen agrees that this is a very significant buff that's makes her presence be considered imperative in every game now,[[https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20759245843?page=175 where playing a healer other than her is considered a disservice, and is very obnoxious to play against."
    • I'm an active participant in that thread, and what you said is a GROSS oversimplication of what is actually said there. People who enjoyed playing Mercy 1.0 DO NOT feel that it was "buff", but simply a redesign that no one has figured out how to play against yet. Furthermore, one of the major debates in said thread is whether or not the character's high pick/win rate is simply a combination of A) Mercy being the most popular character in the game, B) a very controversial change which people need to try out to form their own opinions of and C) a massive gameplay change to the most-used healer in the game that will take some time to get used to. For instance, in that thread, the most upvoted posts are those who feel that Mercy 1.0 was just fine, and that Mercy 2.0 will be fine after people get used to her.

The problem with your edits is that it compresses this entire, complicated clusterfuck of a debate into one side's opinion. It's WAY too early to do that.

Edited by NubianSatyress Hide / Show Replies
number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
Oct 2nd 2017 at 10:30:36 AM •••

Okay, so let me see if I can take this bit by bit:

  • "Yes, but there's a massive argument at the same time that the people who ARE complaining about it are simply an Unpleasable Fanbase who hate Mercy being viable AT ALL. Similarly, there are also people who complain about Hanzo's Scatter Arrow, Mei's Freeze Gun, and Symmetra's primary fire. In short, people, will complain about ANY ability that makes them lose."

An important thing to note regarding those abilities cited is the fact that those are mostly for Skill Gate Characters that gradually fall off as you go into higher divisions (theoretically), ones that are much less effective and easier to punish; as annoyingly RNG-based Scatter Arrow is, its inconsistency is a major drawback, and Mei and Symmetra require to be in constant close range to their targets, which can be exceptionally dangerous against skilled enemy players unless they really know what they're doing.

But the problem with Mercy isn't because of the fact people simply hate her "just because", there's no specific anti-Mercy hate train "just because"; during the height of Season 5, people lost a lot of patience having to constantly deal with her, because on top of her healing being very simple yet very effective, and her glide just making her very irritating to pin down in most levels of play, her Resurrect was simply busted. To quote the patch notes for her rework, "it incentivized Mercy players to hide away from important battles, instead of taking part in them," and more often than not just annoying for everyone to have do deal with and counter-intuitive for Mercy players.

What usually happened was that Mercy hid in a corner as her teammates all died together, and unless the enemy team had a really good cleanup service to find her (and sometimes even if they do), all she has to do is fly towards her teammates, press a single button for being in a very generous range, and bring most, if not all of them back to resume the fight.

This was the most optimal strategy suggested by her old kit, and the fact it was so annoying to deal with, so counter-intuitive to Mercy's place as an in-battle healer, and so ridiculously safe since unlike other "button-press" ults (McCree has a long delay, callout, and leaves him vulnerable, Reaper can be blocked off and is vulnerable from enemies out of range, Sombra's instant EMP doesn't do any damage and she definitely can't fight on her own, etc.), with quite literally nothing that can be done to fight it, it definitely warranted a retool. Once she hit Q, all her teammates were coming back and there's nothing you can do about it, and her invincibility made it so she could safely just glide back to another teammate once everyone was back and shooting.

It's not the fact that it's an ability that draws complaints "because it makes them lose" (if that's the case, can't you just pick her? It's not like she's very difficult to play compared to other healers), or the fact people specifically have a prejudice against Mercy as a concept/hero, it's the fact that fundamentally, she was busted and annoying and required a fix.

  • "People who enjoyed playing Mercy 1.0 DO NOT feel that it was "buff", but simply a redesign that no one has figured out how to play against yet."

  • "Whether or not the character's high pick/win rate is simply a combination of [...] a massive gameplay change to the most-used healer in the game that will take some time to get used to."

Keeping in mind that "no one has figured out how to play against her yet" thing, that's not just the only problem people have with her. Whether or not Mercy is busted in a vacuum is its own deal that I'd argue saying "absolutely so", but another is the fact that other healers exist in the game, where the design expectation is that one should not be necessitated/overshadowing others. While Lucio's pretty much a mainstay since he's not really popular solely because of his heal and is pretty unique enough to not be drastically affected, Ana and Zenyatta basically have no real reason aside from very niche individual traits to be picked over Mercy, and those who do pick them are more often than not put at a disservice. While I'm still waiting for the next OmnicMeta report for hard stats, I think it's very safe to say based on the threads of angry Zen and Ana players, their reputation has fallen off mostly because of Mercy overshadowing the hell out of them.

Ana has her healingnade, Sleep Dart and Nano-Boost, and Zen has his raw DPS, Orb of Discord and Transcendence, yes, but they just can't compete with the current state of Mercy, whose healing is more stable than Ana (no aim required) and more potent than Zenyatta, and also, to reiterate, the ability to instantly bring an ally back from the dead is exceptionally powerful, even with a long cooldown and no invulnerability period for you now. She's also got her new Valkyrie, which on top of making her more mobile and way harder to hit for a good chunk of heroes because of being airborne, can now chain-heal and damage-boost multiple allies from a longer range, can go Combat Medic with her infinite-ammo pistol if she wants, has uninterruptible health regeneration now, and on top of that, it resets/heavily reduces the cooldown of her rez.

I'm sorry, but with that much stuff loaded into her now, there really isn't any reason not to pick her in every game over every other healer (except Lucio, but again, he doesn't really "replace" anyone because his unique strengths are that unique and plentiful), and having her in every game now is exactly what's happening, and people get very angry at players who play healers, but not the right one, because she's an undisputed Master of All, at least in terms of raw practicality. How are you supposed to figure out how to play against someone with that much power, and not in just the same way as early Ana or Season 4 launch Bastion who technically had weaknesses, but still broke the game to a point where there had to be intervention?

  • "B) a very controversial change which people need to try out to form their own opinions of..."

  • "For instance, in that thread, the most upvoted posts are those who feel that Mercy 1.0 was just fine, and that Mercy 2.0 will be fine after people get used to her."

Unless I'm missing something right now, in that thread alone, the most recent and most relevant posts where everyone runs the gamut from -10 to 10 upvotes say otherwise. The most upvoted votes I'm seeing are basically agreeing with me; Mercy is really, really busted right now, while the people saying she's fine seem to be really downvoted. I'm not sure where you're getting your sample right now, but at this current point, people seem really burnt out by Mercy already and for pretty distinct reasons, not just on the Blizzard forums, but on the game's subreddit, too.

Honestly, the "debates" I've seen is specifically how to go about fixing her, which I'm not really gonna touch because Mercy's kind of a numbers nightmare since there are so many stats associated with her now, especially thanks to her new ult, and it can go a number of different ways, and even then, it entails there's in fact something wrong with her. Once again, regardless of whether or not you find the changes fun to play or not that annoying to play against, just about everyone I've seen seems to agree that she still has a lot of significant problems and needs something done.

Edited by number9robotic Thanks for playing King's Quest V!
NubianSatyress Since: Mar, 2016
Oct 2nd 2017 at 10:51:00 AM •••

number9robotic, can you please not make lenghty Walls of Text to reply? It's MORE than possible to summarize your points in such a way that it doesn't force someone to have to refute 900 sentences to reply to you.

  • But the problem with Mercy isn't because of the fact people simply hate her "just because", there's no specific anti-Mercy hate train "just because"
    • That, again, is debatable. Mercy players have been reporting getting hate merely for playing Mercy since the game was released. The point is that, no matter what happens, other players are finding arbitrary reasons to hate on Mercy and her players. For example. leaving aside balance issues, Mercy players have been called "no-skill" players who don't know how to use anyone else. Even if the player using her is a pro, or one of the best Mercys in the game, they still get the same amount of hate. The argument being made is that most "reasons" people hate Mercy are simply smokescreens to continue disrespecting her.

  • This was the most optimal strategy suggested by her old kit, and the fact it was so annoying to deal with
    • Which, again, is an argument that the vast majority of Mercy players in that thread say is incorrect. Going through the consensus amongst Mercy players, their opinion is that hiding was an over-reported issue. For example, there's a video of Ster complaining about a Mercy "hiding in spawn" to Rez who clearly wasn't even hiding nor in spawn. While, yes, there were Mercys who hide before Rezzing, the same can be said of Reapers who hide somewhere and then drop on a team to kill them.

  • It's not the fact that it's an ability that draws complaints "because it makes them lose" (if that's the case, can't you just pick her? It's not like she's very difficult to play compared to other healers).
    • No, because, again, playing Mercy comes with a stigma. Players who disrespect Mercy players are typically stereotyped as "Genji mains" or other DPS players who state their hard work is being reversed by a Mercy ult.

  • Unless I'm missing something right now, in that thread alone, the most recent and most relevant posts where everyone runs the gamut from -10 to 10 upvotes say otherwise. The most upvoted votes I'm seeing are basically agreeing with me; Mercy is really, really busted right now, while the people saying she's fine seem to be really downvoted
    • That is flat out untrue.
    • The overwhelming majority of posts are advocating that Mercy be reverted back to the way she was—NOT because she's "busted" but because the rework (in their argument) made no sense or was made to appease non-Mercy players at the expense of Mercy players. Mercy mains who liked the original Mercy and felt nothing was wrong with her are BY FAR the most upvoted posts in that thread. And Mercy mains who LIKE the changes or think they're okay don't agree that she's "busted" either.

Edited by NubianSatyress
number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
Oct 2nd 2017 at 11:18:01 AM •••

If you're having a problem with me compressing an "argument" while also expecting me to not go in-detail as to said "argument", we're kind of at an impasse here, aren't we?

  • That, again, is debatable.

  • "Mercy players have been reporting getting hate merely for playing Mercy since the game was released. The point is that, no matter what happens, other players are finding arbitrary reasons to hate on Mercy and her players. For example. leaving aside balance issues, Mercy players have been called "no-skill" players who don't know how to use anyone else. Even if the player using her is a pro, or one of the best Mercys in the game, they still get the same amount of hate. The argument being made is that most "reasons" people hate Mercy are simply smokescreens to continue disrespecting her."

  • "No, because, again, playing Mercy comes with a stigma. Players who disrespect Mercy players are typically stereotyped as "Genji mains" or other DPS players who state their hard work is being reversed by a Mercy ult."

Isn't that just as debatable? And moreover, that's kind of irrelevant to what I'm talking about; even if what you say is true, the problems I'm talking about, and indeed a lot of people I'm seeing are talking about, are more from a basic gameplay standpoint that would be just as troublesome if they were applied to any other hero, debatable stigma or not, which aside from the thing directly below, you aren't even really addressing.

  • "Going through the consensus amongst Mercy players, their opinion is that hiding was an over-reported issue. For example, there's a video of Ster complaining about a Mercy "hiding in spawn" to Rez who clearly wasn't even hiding nor in spawn. While, yes, there were Mercys who hide before Rezzing, the same can be said of Reapers who hide somewhere and then drop on a team to kill them."

Perhaps the exact hiding thing may be exaggerated, fair enough, but that just crosses out one bit of a paragraph of issues that still leaves out some significant problems: All she has to do is fly towards her teammates, press a single button for being in a very generous range, and bring most, if not all of them back to resume the fight. May I reiterate, the problem isn't just that it's annoying or Mercy is annoying herself, it's more that for such a simple, difficult-to-punish ability, it has a lot of power going for it that many players just find unfair to play against.

  • "That is flat out untrue. The overwhelming majority of posts are advocating that Mercy be reverted back to the way she was—NOT because she's "busted" but because the rework (in their argument) made no sense or was made to appease non-Mercy players at the expense of Mercy players. Mercy mains who liked the original Mercy and felt nothing was wrong with her are BY FAR the most upvoted posts in that thread."

Yeah, see, that's the exact problem: Of course people are saying their main is balanced right now so they can continue playing them in a very strong, very fun state, but it's done at the expense of just about everyone else who doesn't regularly play her for whatever reason and instead have to play against her. But if you want to make up a false narrative with posts of around +1 upvotes as a "most upvoted" barometer... very well then. (Also, this is one of your examples? You do realize they're saying Mercy's OP right now and needs fixing, right?)

And even so, none of them are really taking in all these main, plentiful issues that I've laid out others are also discussing elsewhere that you seem to just be dismissing as "people are just biased against Mercy"; not just the fact that she may/may not be broken (I'd argue she definitely needs work), but also the fact she's blatantly overshadowing other healers since she can do their job so much better and then some.

I really don't believe that there's this much of an argument as you're led to believe. Once again, almost all the debates I've seen in that thread alone are based on fixing her, implying there's indeed things to be fixed, and I think establishing a problem that people have with her — regardless of her character or whatever "stigma" you think I or anyone else may have — in this YMMV page is valid. Maybe I get some things wrong like the SR calculation issues, but if there actually is a real problem with me talking about Mercy's gameplay issues, I'd like refutation actually about said issues.

Edited by number9robotic Thanks for playing King's Quest V!
SpectralTime Since: Apr, 2009
Oct 2nd 2017 at 11:24:43 AM •••

...So, before this argument gets even angrier, can we wait a bit longer and see how it shakes out? "Hot takes" are all well and good, but sometimes it's just that a new thing is popular because it's novel and everyone wants to try it for a while, then falls off later once everyone has. (See Doomfist.)

number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
Oct 2nd 2017 at 11:33:29 AM •••

I'm almost completely certain Doomfist's drop was directly attributable to an actual gameplay change (Doomfist's Meteor Punch's hitbox was "fixed", but was made too small so hitting people with it is too sensitive, on top of people feeling out his weaknesses, but still). It's been almost two weeks now, and I think it's safe to say that until something changes, it might as well be kept since that is the consensus from what I've seen.

Edited by number9robotic Thanks for playing King's Quest V!
NubianSatyress Since: Mar, 2016
Oct 2nd 2017 at 11:35:36 AM •••

  • Isn't that just as debatable?
    • YES. THAT IS MY EXACT POINT. If there are two sides that are "just as debatable", we don't use the YMMV as a soapbox for either.

  • And moreover, that's kind of irrelevant to what I'm talking about; even if what you say is true, the problems I'm talking about, and indeed a lot of people I'm seeing are talking about, are more from a basic gameplay standpoint that would be just as troublesome if they were applied to any other hero, debatable stigma or not, which aside from the thing directly below, you aren't even really addressing.
    • The gameplay issues cannot be talked about without the stigma, since the argument made is that "non-Mercy players will find any reason to hate Mercy and thus overexaggerate or make up issues about her gameplay."

  • Yeah, see, that's the exact problem: Of course people are saying their main is balanced right now so they can continue playing them in a very strong, very fun state
    • Except that ISN'T what they're saying. The most upvoted posts are those saying she's NOT fun. Even if they think she's fine, they don't think she's FUN. Furthermore, the entire point of the debate is that it's literally Mercy Mains vs Everyone else. As I said, people who don't play Mercy are the ones being accused of hating her.

  • But if you want to make up a false narrative with posts of around +1 upvotes as a "most upvoted" barometer... very well then. (Also, this is one of your examples? You do realize they're saying Mercy's OP right now and needs fixing, right?)
    • The first link you posted is someone who says that she should be reverted with a weakened Rez. They aren't saying she was fine in her old state.
    • The second and third links only have 4 and 5 upvotes respectively—far from the "10" you mentioned before. I can easily find about 20 or thirty posts with more upvotes than that which advocate returning Mercy to normal or say that the changes are simply boring.
    • No, that is NOT what the post I linked is saying, at all.

Edited by NubianSatyress
NubianSatyress Since: Mar, 2016
Oct 2nd 2017 at 11:36:01 AM •••

Edit: yes, waiting until this "hot take" has died down was the entire reason I commented it out.

Edit Part Deux: At the very least, this might count as "importing drama".

Edited by NubianSatyress
number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
Oct 2nd 2017 at 11:43:36 AM •••

Nubian, what exactly are you trying to argue now? If the reason you commented my entry out because "there really hasn't been enough time to test or verify the problems that people claim," I'm trying to argue that this is the consensus, I'm providing a long explanation (in wall of text format, sorry), but you really don't seem to be focusing on what I'm talking about...

I'm not talking about reverting Mercy's changes; once again, I'm not talking about finding out how to fix her or rebalance her in this thread or in the entry, I'm talking about how the ability and much of her current state is really problematic, and how this is a common view. That's all. Nobody's trying to start something because people specifically hate Mercy or whatever.

Edited by number9robotic Thanks for playing King's Quest V!
NubianSatyress Since: Mar, 2016
Oct 2nd 2017 at 12:18:32 PM •••

Please don't make it sound like I changed my argument. Your position is that there's a "consensus", and my position is that there isn't. The very argument that Mercy's abilities are "really problematic" is what's in contention in the first place. There are lots of people complaining about her, but the very argument is about whether or not those complaints have substance.

There's no complication beyond that. If we're still in an impasse, then I don't know how to help make the point clearer.

I'll leave it at that.

Edited by NubianSatyress
number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
Oct 2nd 2017 at 12:29:13 PM •••

Uh... okay. The entry stays.

Thanks for playing King's Quest V!
NubianSatyress Since: Mar, 2016
Oct 2nd 2017 at 12:34:26 PM •••

That isn't your call.

Please let other people weigh in.

Edited by NubianSatyress
HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
Oct 2nd 2017 at 1:17:30 PM •••

What entry are we talking about now?

NubianSatyress Since: Mar, 2016
Oct 2nd 2017 at 1:28:08 PM •••

These two:

  • The Season 6 Mercy rework has greatly made games much more difficult for teams that simply don't have her. Resurrect is already very annoying, and despite being only single-target and based off a hefty 30-second cooldown (which isn't the case when she gets her ultimate), it's still extremely powerful, and when combined with everything else in her kit and her low skill floor, she's stupidly effective and incredibly obnoxious for the enemy team to fight against, basically requiring she be played in every single game by every team.

  • Mercy's Resurrect is considered one of the most busted abilities in the game in terms of value, so much so that almost all of Mercy as a whole is balanced around how often she can use it the cost of everything else, including her own survival. It's this ability as to why she fluctuates so hard as a Tier Induced Scrappy, as not only is it annoying in-game to deal with, but Meta Game-wise, she can only be a must-pick healer or a fragile liability, and there's no middle ground since the ability to simply press a button to instantly bring your dead allies back into the fight is just that innately powerful. It being "demoted" to be just a single-target, high-cooldown ability has done little to nerf its sheer practicality; if anything, it's actually made it even more powerful, especially when used in tandem with her new Valkyrie ultimate that thirds its cooldown.


Basically, my objection is that Mercy's kit is an extremely Base-Breaking topic. Possibly THE MOST base-breaking topic in Overwatch history.

On the one hand, you have people who don't use Mercy who've had concerns about various aspects of her kit from day one. On the other hand, you have Mercy users, who say that the complaints are overblown because there's a stigma against the character (and her players) for other reasons.

I commented the entry out until either more passes or the heat dies down. At the very least, though, the argument does not present a neutral POV of the issue, and can honestly be seen as "importing drama". The entry itself is written with overly-critical and complainy language towards Mercy.

Edited by NubianSatyress
HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
Oct 2nd 2017 at 1:33:11 PM •••

Okay, after a little more digging, it looks like these two entries are the ones under dispute:

  • That One Attack:
    • Mercy's Resurrect is considered one of the most busted abilities in the game in terms of value, so much so that almost all of Mercy as a whole is balanced around how often she can use it the cost of everything else, including her own survival. It's this ability as to why she fluctuates so hard as a Tier Induced Scrappy, as not only is it annoying in-game to deal with, but Meta Game-wise, she can only be a must-pick healer or a fragile liability, and there's no middle ground since the ability to simply press a button to instantly bring your dead allies back into the fight is just that innately powerful. It being "demoted" to be just a single-target, high-cooldown ability has done little to nerf its sheer practicality; if anything, it's actually made it even more powerful, especially when used in tandem with her new Valkyrie ultimate that thirds its cooldown.

  • Game-Breaker:
    • The Season 6 Mercy rework has greatly made games much more difficult for teams that simply don't have her. Resurrect is already very annoying, and despite being only single-target and based off a hefty 30-second cooldown (which isn't the case when she gets her ultimate), it's still extremely powerful, and when combined with everything else in her kit and her low skill floor, she's stupidly effective and incredibly obnoxious for the enemy team to fight against, basically requiring she be played in every single game by every team.

The latter is clearly premature. There just plain hasn't been enough time for the meta to shake out and determine whether Mercy 2.0 is actually OP or if the player base just hasn't figured out how to effectively counter her yet.

I'd consider the former flat-out shoehorning. From the That One Attack trope description:

If you have a party, it will almost always target all party members, and it often takes off the majority of your hit points, if not worse. It's a staple for That One Boss to have one of these, possibly more. This attack showing up even once is always bad news; if the A.I. Roulette gives you two in a row, expect to see the Game Over screen. Whether or not you can beat That One Boss that uses this attack usually depends entirely on whether or not you can avoid/endure/recover from it.

None of that describes Mercy's new rez. Her old one, maybe.

number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
Oct 2nd 2017 at 2:26:14 PM •••

Okay, that's a point I can get behind. Although I do believe it's very problematic, and I've seen a ton of critique towards the rework as having a lot of problems, especially in the future, maybe it is too early, so yeah I can probably just comment that Game-Breaker entry out.

Though for the That One Attack entry, I might quibble a bit, since the description for the trope on its page is subject to a ton of misuse if it's to be taken that as literally "A very annoying attack used by That One Boss." Even we replace “boss” with just “enemy player”, most of the time I (and others who have posted other such entries) seem to just consider it as "a very problematic ability you don't want the enemy to use" and that honestly seems to be the case with other games using the trope (this Pokémon page sticks out a lot).

If we're also going for the bit of that it's not just offensive-related abilities, then I suppose we'd have to do away with the D.Va Defense Matrix entry too, even though we know the crazy amount of problems that caused.

While again, I still think just the rez alone has a bunch of problems that can fit that "annoying ability" definition of the trope, I'm not sure if that's the definition this page should go by. I dunno, at the very least I could just reword it so it sounds less biased if that sounds to be the case, but depending on what the definition is, it might be fine just zapping it too.

Edited by number9robotic Thanks for playing King's Quest V!
WaterBlap Since: May, 2014
Oct 2nd 2017 at 4:24:57 PM •••

Honestly, I would ask the "That One Boss and That One Level Clean-Up" thread about the relevant entries on this page, including those for That One Attack. Rather than quibble about it/them in the page's discussion thread.

Concerning Game-Breaker, I still think it sounds like a contender. That is, the trope concerns the mechanic and how players can "legally use" (so to speak) it to their relatively unfair advantage. And the mechanic of "rez a player every 30 seconds" sounds like a prime candidate. That said, I agree with High Crate that the entry's placement on the page is a bit premature. Wait a while before bringing it back to discussion, and then people will have a more clear idea of whether it's really a Game-Breaker or not.

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
NubianSatyress Since: Mar, 2016
Oct 2nd 2017 at 5:29:42 PM •••

Blap, I would advise against saying whether or not a mechanic "sounds like" a Game-Breaker unless you're familiar with the game in question. Granted, you DID say that we should wait in the end, but I'm just saying that almost any mechanic can sound game breaking if worded a certain way.

Edited by NubianSatyress
WaterBlap Since: May, 2014
Oct 2nd 2017 at 9:14:10 PM •••

That "is" needlessly nitpicky, misrepresenting what I said, and is making a baseless comment about me. We've been through this game before, NS, so I'm being blunt about it.

I am making a statement of probability about the example being a contender for the trope. "It is probably a candidate for being a Game-Breaker" is equivalent to what I said. I disagree that it "certainly is" not an example.

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
NubianSatyress Since: Mar, 2016
Oct 3rd 2017 at 4:34:36 AM •••

You're taking it way too personal. I was making a suggestion. There is no reason to get defensive.

HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
Oct 3rd 2017 at 10:19:47 AM •••

The thing is, Overwatch is a game where the characters are basically superheroes. There are several abilities that sound like gamebreakers if viewed in isolation. If you told someone who'd never played the game that Reinhardt's shield can absorb 2000 points of damage for his entire team in a game where the average hero has 200, you'd never guess that he was relatively low-tier last season due to the prevalence of characters that can flank him.

Right now Mercy's rez seems OP, and it might legitimately prove to be so... but it's also got weaknesses. It's not great on first-point offense or last-point defense, where you're so close to your spawn that getting rezzed instead of running back barely registers. It's not good for supporting flankers, because rezzing a squishy target behind enemy lines is just asking to get both of you killed. But she's also not great in a pure deathball, because her only defense is mobility and her mobility is gimped if she's got nobody to fly away to. And picking Mercy has an opportunity cost, since you're giving up the potent abilities of other supports you might have picked instead, like Zen's Discord Orb / Lucio's Speed Boost / Ana's burst healing and sleep dart and nano, all of which have been meta-defining skills at various points.

Right now, the most likely thing is that she lies somewhere between "potent but situational" and "slightly OP and could use some mild nerfs."

Edited by HighCrate
HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
NubianSatyress Since: Mar, 2016
Dec 13th 2017 at 3:03:44 PM •••

Was this ever resolved?

Because number9robotic just added a MASSIVE bullet point to it.

Edited by NubianSatyress
number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
Oct 19th 2017 at 10:49:14 AM •••

I'm sorry for going back to this Mercy thing, but some time has passed to allow for opinions to settle down further whether to label Mercy (in this current state) as a Game-Breaker has passed, and I thought I'd put it in discussion before actually adding in any entry.

So the stats are in (or have been in for more than a week), and yes, Mercy is most-definitely an extremely powerful and popular pick, and while not all healers have suffered like I predicted, Ana is still getting punished as hell, and nobody really has much reason to pick any other healer than Mercy, and the forums are still ablaze with people complaining about her state, or at least acknowledging that she's really flawed the way she is right now, and this feedback thread is most prominently filled with people, again, arguing how to fix her.

But another thing I've noticed is that some professional tournaments have completely skipped this Mercy patch (with D.Va changes and others) because of how problematic she's been for gameplay. This recent APAC tournament has included the Mercy changes, and yeah, it appears commenters aren't the happiest about that either. It's interesting, because HighCrate's explanations about Mercy having major exploitable weaknesses doesn't seem to be a problem because the teams are fully aware of them and are balancing their teams around her to a big degree, and the battles are now more drawn out with everyone seeming like they're afraid to actually kill anybody because of the enemy Mercy instantly undoing it, who's so crazy necessary and powerful pro mainstays like Ana and even Lucio — who's been the pro Overwatch mainstay — only appear sometimes and only on one team, while Mercy's around both teams all the time.

There's just this really awkward situation where it's not like she busts the game incredibly widely to the degree of Bastion after the Season 4 rework, but at the same time, it's considered a distinct disadvantage to not have Mercy on your team even if you do have other healers who have their own unique strengths, because Mercy's unique strengths are considered so necessary to a degree I don't think has really existed in a long time other than Lucio and his pre-rework speed boost, but at that was nowhere near as actively patience-trying. If grandmaster-to-professional level players have to base their entire games around her, there's something really wrong, but whether this it makes her a Game-Breaker, I'm still kinda unsure.

Edited by number9robotic Thanks for playing King's Quest V! Hide / Show Replies
NubianSatyress Since: Mar, 2016
Oct 19th 2017 at 11:54:10 AM •••

So, in that forum you posted, the top-ranked posts are STILL from Mercy mains who feel she needs to be reverted back to her original self. Example 1. Example 2. Example 3. I still say this is a case of a controversial subject that we should ignore for the moment, to skip importing drama.

Also, I'd like to remind you that after Ana's release in July 2016, it took several months (until about Sept/Oct 2016) for people to realize how strong she was and for the Triple Tank Meta to settle in professional play. I still say that it's far too early to start commenting on Mercy's place in the meta.

Edited by NubianSatyress
number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
Oct 22nd 2017 at 10:39:55 AM •••

Exactly how long do you think it's going to be until it's no longer "far too early"? It's been over a month since her changes, and they've already appeared really drastic. And what are you trying to say about the Ana? Because over time that's when people realized she was even more busted than on release...

Edited by number9robotic Thanks for playing King's Quest V!
SpectralTime Since: Apr, 2009
Oct 22nd 2017 at 11:29:06 AM •••

I'd say at least wait until a patch or two manages to go by without them tweaking her a bit. There has to *be* a status quo to rail against before anyone can comfortably comment on the Way Things Are without getting potentially outdated.

NubianSatyress Curly Goddess Since: Mar, 2016
Curly Goddess
Oct 2nd 2017 at 11:35:01 AM •••

Wrong topic.

Edited by NubianSatyress
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