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Jul 17th 2015 at 12:19:26 PM •••

I wanted to talk about a Black and White Insanity aspect of the manga / anime: Johan wants to corrupt Doctor Tenma by forcing him into murdering him, to save every innocent human he WILL UTTERLY DESTROY should he live to continue his monstrous spree. Johan says that should the Doctor pull the trigger, he would become the very thing he hates most, an abomination like himself. Did we miss something? Killing a ruthless psychopath to protect innocents may not be something an All-Loving Hero would consider, but this isn't in any way what a Complete Monster sadistically and remorselessly revels in doing as a routine, nor would it drive anyone into becoming just like the last no matter what. It would be at best the mark of a Pragmatic Hero, Anti-Hero or Good Is Not Soft Hero. Anything anyone wants to mention?

Edited by imadmagician Hide/Show Replies
Jul 17th 2015 at 1:29:00 PM •••

This is not portrayed as "insanity" by the story.

Jul 18th 2015 at 6:11:36 AM •••

To Magbas: yes, it would seem so. However, if we were to apply "real life standards" to it, or at the very least a tad of reason and common sense, wouldn't that seem a strawman / False Dichotomy of some sort? (Being either a complete monster or someone who would never resort to murder no matter the intentions and circumstances) In other words, it would seem to me the story is being Anvilicious in a bad way with that ideology.

Edited by imadmagician
Jul 18th 2015 at 8:08:58 AM •••

Not more than any real life moral standard that says that some actions are wrong with major W.

Jul 18th 2015 at 8:25:45 AM •••

"No more than some RL moral standards", correct. But there are countless moral codes in RL, many Drastically Different from each other with 2 capital Ds. Some systems see things in a Black / White way, on more than 1 level: A specific action is automatically Wrong / Bad to the highest degree possible regardless of circumstances and intentions, many "wrong" things are considered equally wrong no matter their nature and circumstances - to a high extent in general - and if you commit any of them, you are considered pure evil with no redeeming traits ignoring everything else. I personally think those RL systems are flawed to an enormous extent. My intended idea is that those systems, whether in fiction or RL, are quite far from being "just and efficient".

Edited by imadmagician
Aug 20th 2015 at 6:35:12 AM •••

One last thing: let's suppose it was up to a Cop, or any law enforcement officer, to stop the Monster, and had to shoot him in order to end his murderous spree (after all, that's what police officers are trained for for those cases), would said officer who shoots the guy down be considered bad to the bone? Not to mention that in the Manga, it was someone other than the Dr. who shot down the monster, in order to protect his daughter, a noble intention. Does that makes said guy (who ended the monster's reign to protect his loved one) a being of pure evil?

Aug 20th 2015 at 3:59:30 PM •••

If i am remembering well, the manga mentions a case of a law enforcement officer shooting a person in a killing spree in one of their arcs.(One of the victims of Johan when he disguised himself as a student.)

Edited by MagBas
Dec 23rd 2012 at 12:48:08 AM •••

Does Roberto count as a Complete Monster example?

I mean, i dont see anything good about this guy. Not even discovering a bit of his past make me feel sorry for him.

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