Alright, so Ragyo is listed as a Complete Monster and a Generic Doomsday Villain, both on the Kill la Kill YMMV/Character pages, as well on the associated main pages. From all the research I did on the rules for Complete Monster, I've seen it stated multiple times that a character cannot be both. Please correct me if the information I read was outdated but otherwise: arguments for which should stay and which should go?
Personally, I'd go with keeping Complete Monster but this is YMMV so, yeah.
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Questions about that trope go here
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Removed these from the page because none of them are sourced to provide evidence that it's more than just one person complaining, as per the Unfortunate Implications page. If you find citation then, by all means, put them back.
- Unfortunate Implications
- So far, there have been several jokes centered around Ryuko having a Sailor Fuku forced on her and waking up partially (or completely) naked in the presence of strange men... who never seem to do anything other than ogle her, despite the molester-vibes.
- Satsuki's speech in episode 3 is both inspirational and downright horrible, especially since the show so far has shown that she is right: the way to obtain power is to live and force others to live with your morals, crushing those who stand in your way and their opinions and feelings be damned, be they the costumes or goals of the heroine, or the way the naked rebellion operates.
- To unlock Senketsu's power, Ryuko pulls a pin which goes across her wrists, drawing blood in the process. This has gotten them accused of glorifying suicide (in a work produced where suicide by wrist-cutting is a very common form of death), never mind the fact that suicide by wrist-cutting does not work that way.
- The lead character is a tomboy and her allies are mostly Rated M for Manly badasses, with even the otherwise girly Mako frequently acting like a typical Hot-Blooded shõnen protagonist, whereas the two biggest, most evil and psychotic villains are both stereotypically feminine, one in the sensual, adult way and the other in the girly, childish way.
Another one was added.
- Unfortunate Implications: The only canonically confirmed gay characters are a raging psychopath and a parent who molested her own daughters.
Why is this removed? Ragyo and Nui were only ones to show homosexual tendencies and they were raging psychopath and rapist.
It's a common misconception that Unfortunate Implications need a source to be on a work's YMMV page. It needs a source to go on the actual Unfortunate Implications page, but not to go on a works'. Best I can tell, they should be restored.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
What?
'No example may be added without proof that it's not just one person thinking.'
This is said directly on the actual page. I don't see where it says that that rule only applies to the actual Unfortunate Implications page. I'm looking up any reference on this site saying that YMMV pages are exempt to this rule, and I'm not finding anything. Did I miss somewhere?
EDIT:... Okay. I did find a thread saying this. While it confuses me greatly and wish it was made clearer on the actual Unfortunate Implications page, I will apologize before this continues further. I was unaware of this, and will restore these examples.
John, by the logic behind that argument, Psycho is an anti-drag screed.
Edited by 69.181.168.220
I'm not too sure about the Base Breaker entry for Mako. It feels more like "I don't like her, so other people must not" type entry that show up on The Scrappy constantly.
Possibility of making a Bait The Dog entry for Harime Nui.
I don't know how other tropers feel but personally I'm really torn about Nui. Yes she is evil, cruel and quite obviously a Very bad person, but on the other hand it's really hard not to be amused and entertained by her antics.
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Well, that has nothing to do with Bait the Dog. Crossing the Line Twice, maybe?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Not really actually, it's just my opinion but with Nui it's like a see-saw. One time she is fun and amusing and then she kicks some puppies and you feel bad about being entertained by her. But then she starts being funny again and even though you Know she is bad and that she will kick some dogs you still get baited into liking her. Her Kick the Dog moments are genuinely evil, it's just that she balances them out with her silly antics.
You're looking for Laughably Evil, not Bait the Dog. She was introduced as a dog-kicker, so that's not the trope.
Hey, is there a direct source that backs up the claim that Studio Trigger is baffled by Takarada's popularity overseas, and their confirmation that Uzu has a 'teeny weenie'? Cuz I'm having trouble finding either, and as hilarious as both of those things are, I and a lot of others would like a proper source on that to confirm it.
X-ALL!
- Subverted for Satsuki/Ryuko, as the revelation that they're sisters made the ship stronger if anything else.
I'd like to contest that, because there were some fanfics that were even taken down after this reveal and this is still squick for a lot of people.
My work is here. Current main fic: Tengen Toppa Gurren Solvernia
- Jerkass Woobie: Satsuki, considering the fact that her mother could be argued as sexually molesting her on a regular basis. (Spoiler tags temporarily removed.)
Alright kids, I don't know jack about this series so I have no stake in this, I just monitor edit reasons for drama flare ups. Let us discuss this in a civil manner. Examples Are Not Arguable, so this is not acceptable the way it is.
Now, it appears this argument is about the character's precise "molested" status. Can someone give a factual report? Remember, mods are alerted and will be watching your behavior, so choose your words with care. Together, we can build consensus.
Edited by 96.234.3.12 Hide / Show Replies
In episode 13, Satsuki responds to her mother feeling her up with little more than "Thank you, mother." (English translation.)
Episode 16 has the "ritual purification" scene, which shows Ragyo unambiguously groping a completely passive Satsuki in the, erm, "bathing suit area."
"Regularly" may be a bit of a stretch. "At least twice so far" might be closer.
Ok. Knowing what I know of anime, that's doesn't sound like enough to determine the creator's intent (it could simply be Girl on Girl Is Hot) but YMMV does allow leeway for fan interpretation and reaction. Something like this could work:
- Jerkass Woobie: Some fans have come to feel this way about Satsuki, as at least two scenes have given the impression her mother may be molesting her regularly.
This clarifies that it's not universal or confirmed. Later, it could be modified if it becomes a black-and-white comfirmation.
I will wait for others to chime in.
Edited by 96.234.3.12
That rewrite would be good. However, it doesn't say why she's a jerkass.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Well, the 'jerkass' bit comes from being a small-scale Evil Overlord cutting a swathe across Japan.
What's precedent ever done for us?
Is Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds a bit extreme? She has pretty much left Kansai a blazing wreck and may have done the same to Hokkaido.
I'm fine with the entry so long as the terms remain based in theory rather than fact. We simply don't know enough to call it abuse or rape, so saying that is really just fan opinion at this point.
Now this is ymmv, so you can say that as long as you add the qualifier stating that it's just an opinion. You just can't play it off like it's the absolute truth, though, at least not until the creators, by way of the show or something else, confirm it for real.
Ok. Revised edition:
- Jerkass Woobie: Some fans have come to feel this way about Satsuki. She may be a small-scale Evil Overlord cutting a burning swathe across Japan, but at least two scenes have given the impression her mother may be molesting her regularly.
Now, maneatingbackpack, I want to clarify: The only reason you're not currently suspended for edit warring is pure luck, because your little spat flew under the radar of the mods — once you get into that, whether you're actually right or wrong no longer matters to them. Next time something like that starts, even if you're dead certain the other guy is the villain, yank the example to discussion or try to work it out in PM. If the other party is unwilling to enter peaceful negotiations, report it to Ask The Tropers and the management will come down on them. (In which case congrats, you win by default!)
@In The Gall Bladder: That's not YMMV and has firmer boundaries, so it shouldn't be hard to work it out objectively.
Edited by 96.234.3.12
I wasn't trying to be mean or anything. I certainly didn't think I was being abusive in my comments or anything. I was just trying to keep it the way the site would want it. I didn't know I was allowed to yank to discussion myself. I thought a mod had to do that. I will do that in the future, and would have done it this time if I knew I could.
Good, good. And you weren't abusive or mean, but normally an edit war doesn't end until they crack heads. I'm not a mod either, but as I just demonstrated, anyone making a good faith attempt to maintain order and peace on the wiki effectively gets to speak with their authority.
I think we'll call this peacefully resolved.
Edited by 96.234.3.12
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Please stop re-adding Nui as a Complete Monster entry. We only add those after vetting them with the Long Term/Perpetual thread, and then only after their story arc is complete to get a proper idea of whether they qualify.
What's precedent ever done for us?
There's a massive amount of white on this page thanks to the abundance of spoiler tags. I think it would look a lot better if we did the same thing I did on Promare and just leave a warning at the top.