Discussion Webcomic / TowerOfGod

It is both. It is a manhwa, posted online, similar to the Daily Lives Of High School Boys and Its Not My Fault I Am Not Popular. Either way, Manhwa have been traditionally added under the manga department on this wiki, the forum thread for this series is in the manga/anime category.

But rather than act against it actively by editing, I should change the general perception of korean webtoons. I'll see what I can do to help you, if you aren't finished yet. Having a cool down phase to think rather helps.

I was about to bring up this same topic. Having Tower of God (and other manhwa) in Anime sections makes it really confusing to anyone that's sensitive to the difference. In To G's case, it might make sense to put it in Webcomics (which I've also seen)...

Despite tradition though I'd suggest moving to some other standard. Even "Other Eastern Comics" or similar would help, imho, but I don't see such a suggestion on the manhwa discussion at least.

Anyway... Thoughts on a new category?

I was half tempted to bring this up in the Trope Repair Shop. Regardless of it's technicality, it's handle is web comic, and thus it should go under web comic. Just because an American makes a web comic about a super hero in traditional comic book style doesn't make it a comic book, and similarly, just because an American makes a Web Animation in a surprisingly fluent cartoon influenced style doesn't make it a cartoon.

Regardless of whatever technicalities apply here, it doesn't make it an anime / manga. It's a web comic, and should be put under the appropriate folder. What applies to the above examples applies to here just the same.

I'm going to be making an effort to move any examples involving this under anime and manga in a trope page to the appropriate folder. If this persists though, I'm going to bring it up with the Trope Repair Shop to see how to make this more clear on the page. Hopefully though, it won't get to that point.

I trust your evaluation. IMO, if you think something is out of place, cut it. After all quality > quantity.

I do not trust my evaluation completely. I'd really like to hear your input as well.

Not a big spoiler, but still. I think that yeah, let's keep it as it is.

I agree.

I've been working on character pages, and they are becoming incresingly cluttered and hard to navigate, as background characters are taking a lot of space (13-month series, top rankers, Princesses sans Yuri, Anak and lighthouse girl etc.). So yeah, i think it is a good idea to move all the characters without much screen time to their own folder, and split the rest by seasons, as you said.

I agree as well. Though I don't think we should adopt the Cabin In The Woods trope, because that movie kinda depends on the spoiler. Tower of God clearly has shocking spoilers, but there is also a lot of other stuff that can be talked about, and it has more than one spoiler, for instance the background of Anak. I think if we use the spoiler tags just fine, I mean, that's what they are there for. Also, there is only one spoiler trope that is so unambiguous (obfusciating disability) that it has to be hidden. Knowing that there is a certain type of dramatic twist but not knowing what it is is actually quite exciting.

Just reformatted the main page. Any tropes about the work in general, tropes from back ground information, tropes appearing in both seasons and tropes about characters and objects we are likely to see again in the following seasons (so no Serena, Lurker (though he's a maybe) and Nia) have been put in the general tropes folder. Any further suggestions?

I'm hunting up World Building tropes to put under General: like Amazing Technicolour Population. Got side-tracked on collecting Character tropes to add, as well... sorry. (Will be able to pad out even some of the minor characters). If Headon is "minor". :P

Thoughts about the Character Page folders... Ouch, it looks more like a mess every time I see it. I'll get on to the folders. Hmmmm: Baam/ Viole and Rachel would have to go under something like General: Main (for all she doesn't show up much in 2, she still manages to loom), so we'll need a General: Background for people like Zahard. Question: why hasn't Rachel been tagged as an Irregular?

Rethink: Split the Character Pages to separate pages? General, Season 1 Specific, Season 2 Specific. Unsure if Baam/ Rachel should get their own page, both tagged as Irregulars under General, but a See Here added for their actual tropes? Thinking of one without the other is a bit... weird, anyway: they should stay on the same page, whatever. Unsure whether to add Ja Wagnan to that page as "stated protagonist" of Season 2 or not (I honestly don't agree with SIU over this... but, hey: the focus does shift... but you tell people that). If so, that page is easy enough: "Protagonists".

Well, we could make a split as in protagonists, supporting characters, back ground characters. I'd put Koon, Baam, Rachel and Ja in one slot (to me Ja feels like a protagonist, this is the story about him meeting Viole). On second thought: Rachel is one of the most important characters, but she isn't really a protagonist, what should we do with that? I think we should cut everybody from the character list we can't find some tropes for.

This is the problem: she's not quite a Supporting Protagonist, but a weird mutation of Deuteragonist. Is there such a thing as a Shadow Protagonist? The trick with ToG is that, although her story is key, it is, up to now, mostly untold. But, still kicking the main one. Uh. Hero of Another Story (for a given definition of "hero", at least)? Without which the main one wouldn't turn at all?

Um... she's definitely in a locked-in relationship with Baam/ Viole (of whatever description it is at any given minute), whatever else she is. So, that's why I'm always tempted to pair them.

Then there is the fact that Wangnan and Viole seem to be playing swapsies between support and main roles. Can I strangle SIU? He's not making my troping life any easier. XD Oh... oh... oh... lookee what I found: Pin Ball Protagonist. Remind you of anybody? I think we're dealing with a table of 'em.

If we use that definition... all 3 are protagonists of this stripe to varying degrees of limelight.

Actually no, who's supposed to be pinball protagonist? Baam? It's true that Koon and Yu Han-Sung further the plot much more in season 1, but Baam chases Rachel into the tower on his own accord, makes the decision to face the eel and passes the test, he manages to play mind games with Rak, his actions are very important for the outcome of the crown game, his decision to help Rachel up gives the story a new goal, his involvement in the Hide-And-Seek game is really fucking big etc. etc. Ja also takes independent action and contributes heavily to the plot (he made Baam win the trustworthy room test}.

So Pinball Protagonist it is not.

I think with Rachel SIU just really loves defying tropes, conventions and expectations. She is kind of an amalgam of female role models to Baam, be it a mother figure (taught him to speak), sister figure (taught him games), a childhood friend, a master of some sort… and when you hear Baam talking about her you'd think she is his personal Jesus Christ.

I was actually thinking of Rachel for the Pinball version of a Deuteragonist. On paper, she's not done a huge amount (even if it has been rather key)... and what she has done is usually through the focus of Baam's tale and of a fairly passive nature (she's doing what she's been told to do). Yet, at the same time the lack of focus is a form of focus, because of the sheer amount of guessing generated.

Wangnan and Viole in this one are a strange mix of deuteragnoistic Supporting Protagonists between them. In the middle of the two, hangs the story. And, in the shadow of that, is Rachel. Koon probably got a little mislabelled for the previous season. He's a support character, not a protagonist at all (however, he might be a foreshadow of the type of thing we're now getting with Wangnan). An important one, with a tale of his own, true... but not the main focus.

And... Season 3 will totally blow all this out the water. Watch it. :P

She has more MacGuffin-like qualities and that makes her rather unsuitable for having a central role. and she is definitely not a supporting protagonist since there are only two instances when the story is told from point of view.

Does this make sense: Ja Wangnan is the Supporting Protagonist to Baam while Baam is the Deuteragonist? A least for season two this holds true, it is Ja Wangnan's story, as the author stated, but the overall story focusses on Baam.

But, that's the thing about the classic romantic deuteragonist in most literature, anyway: she does have a degree of the MacGuffin about her, 'cos the boy is trying to get the girl.

And, yeah... Wangnan and Viole... are... are... passing the god-damned Protagonist Ball like it's a game of rugby! There isn't a trope for that, but right now, I want it. :P

Hmmmm... maybe things will start making sense if I take on carbs. <head-desk>

Rachel might be the focus for baam's character, but she's unrelated to most other characters, so I wouldn't say she is the second most important character. The moment she does shit and gets honstest to good story arcs I will call her a Deuteragonist.

I've started cobbling together a new trope (not in YKTTW, yet... still in write-up) for "Protagonist Ball", but, in the meantime have started up a conversation in Trope Talk about it. In the meantime, pencilling a "Focal Character Page" for what I'm nominally calling the "Protagonist Cast Herd" might be a start?

If we do that, our darling Agero Koon (I like him, OK?) might actually make it as Baam's rugby-ball throwing partner for Season One on there? Even though Baam was pretty much in full Introductory Shonen Protagonist mode at that point, it might not be that clear cut, after all.

You lost me when you said ball throwing. YOU ARE TEARING ME APART, LISA! oldmeme.jpg By the way, if you look on the the "related" page, you'll find a whole bunch a tropes that can be jotted down on the main page. I mean, I could, but since I did that with the last hundred or so tropes, I'm gonna be an entitled dick about that.

Pooling for WhamLines, are there any you guys can think of? All I really got now is a little one: "Shall I show you the Devil that lives in my right arm? Let's see who is the real one."

Uh... not off the top of my head. I might need to be utterly forced to reread, again... just to find them. Yeah. Forced. <coughs>

I say that, and I think of one. "Congratulations, Rachel. For becoming the heroine of the story."

Though that is more of a fake-out. She does not become a heroine.

And that's exactly why it is a Wham Line. It was a crushing irony - Headon basically reminded her how much of a soulless bitch she have became so she could feel special. At least that's how i understand this line :)

On a related note; do we have a Laconic entry candidate? Personally i like the Better Than It Sounds entry: "A young boy stalks his mother/girlfriend/playmate and sets fate in motion. Five years later he blurs gender boundaries." At least this way it doesn't sound like a generic shonen story. The "What do you desire (...)" line is nice too. Any other ideas?

Um... um... um... errr... The shortest I can come up with is "Boy chases girl. It gets complicated." And, it doesn't do it justice by half.

First of all, thank you, I did my best with that line^^

Also, with the laconic wiki it's a bit different (actually only if you wish to seem a bit professional, but wth). Especially with Tower Of God where the originality does not lie with in the basic plot premise, but with in the characters, the themes and the execution. That's why it's hard to not make it sound like a shounen battle manga.

And a bout the wham line, I gotta disagree, it wasn't what changed our understanding of Tower Of God or dramatically changed the mood.

But you got a good scene there: "You're not it. You're not the person the Tower has chosen'' came as a great surprise to many and fubar'd the conception of who is a regular.

@Wham line: Sadly, you're right. I should have read the trope description more closely. Thus, i propose Kang Horyang's line "Friend. Have you seen The Devil?" it's a minor one, but one of my favorites.

wham lines should be spoiler-tagged, right?

Only if they're actually spoilers, not just for effect.

kay thanks. gonna get all the tropes from the related page on the main, think I got a big haul again ^^

done.

Soooooo, character page lay-out… should we delete all months entires except for March and April? should the rest be mentioned in a small text or just the most important them (which is basically just colorless december)? How about the pricesses and rankers who just got a background mention?

I also propose that Androssi shall be moved to the regular section.

I think it is a good idea. We can move all those background characters (top rankers, Princesses sans Androssi, Yuri and perhaps original Anak) to their own folder, somewhere far.

I agree about moving Androssi, and i also propose moving Baam out of Irregulars - i think that spoilered "oh, and he is also an Irregular" or somesuch should suffice.

Baam being an Irregular is not a spoiler at all. It was dropped as a piece of exposition 2 or three chapters in.

Yeah, along with an explanation what an irregular is. I am just being cautious about spoilers.

Anyway, i think that a split along these lines may work:

Folder 1: 25th Baam (so we can move Irregulars)

Folder 2: Regulars (with Androssi)

Debuted in Part1

Debuted in Part2

Debuted in (...)

Folder 3: Rankers (with Yuri)

Folder 4: Background characters

Irregulars (with a note that Baam is one)

Princesses (with a note to search Androssi&Yuri in their own folders)

Others

What do you think? We may further split Rankers to "normal" and High Rankers, but IMO it isn't really needed now.

Yeah, agreeing with most of what you said, but here's a proposal: Don't have Baam being alone in a folder. I think the central characters should be all put in one folder. That is Baam, Koon, Ja and Rachel.

Ok, that worked in many other char pages. Will you do the split? I am pretty busy right now in RL, and i don't know if i manage to edit this wiki at all next 1-2 weeks.

done.

Great job.

About tin: are you sure that puppeteer parasite was his partners? When Lurker retreated to his room Tin was alone, so i assumed that he was in fact Lurk's teammate (or one of Daan Tribe guys). Is there any evidence that Tin had not been "the clown's" controller?

He was clearly shown when the parasite entered Yeon's body, talking about how great a host she would make.

Right, i missed that one.