Discussion WebAnimation / RWBYChibi

An example needs to be written from the assumption that the people reading the page know nothing about the work. Just saying "Trope X is Ruby's reaction to what Yang calls her in Play Y" is a Zero Context Example and requires a person to visit the trope page concerned just to see what that means; the entry itself is basically just saying "Ruby used this trope when Yang called her character a Mary Sue". In other words, it's just saying "This trope was used". It's not explaining how the trope was used.

Examples shouldn't require people to visit other pages, other trope entries, or read multiple works just to figure out how it's being applied.

Also, relying on quotes to explain the trope is a Zero Context Example.

All of the examples you've uncommented are zero context. One or two of them are just barely getting there, albeit in a lazy way. Most are straight ZCE.

I've restored most of these. I expanded on ones I felt needed it, but most had plenty of context. If you feel this isn't enough, Wyldchyld, please actually fix them. Commenting them out does not make the page better.

They're all Zero Context Examples. None of them has enough context to explain how the trope is being used without actually watching the episode to see it in action. Looking at the page history, it looks to me like everything you've uncommented without correcting is a Zero Context Example.

Also, remember that the onus is on the person making the entry to do a proper job. It's not fair for other people to go around doing the work for them, even though that's what we often end up doing.

As a rule, I'll comment out an entry and send a notifier. If it was too far in the past, obviously I won't be sending a notifier. I actually do rewrite the ones I know. I comment out the ones that I'd have to first re-watch the show before I could sit down and write a decent replacement entry.

It's not feasible to expect everyone who spots a ZCE to watch or re-watch a show just to be able to rewrite the example, especially when there are so many of them on a single page — and usually, they're not the people who should be fixing the entry in the first place. The comment-out tags exist for that reason: so that someone with the appropriate knowledge (preferably the person who made the original entry) can give the entry context and thereby remove the tags.

I probably glossed over a few of them, but numerous ones do not require more context. For example:

• Cliffhanger: Parodied in "Road Trip", as the episode freeze frames in Yang attempting to jump over a road block to evade police pursuers.

What more context do you need here?

The entry states the scene is a parody of the Cliffhanger trope, but doesn't explain why it's a parody or how it comes across as a parody. It also potholes two tropes without explaining how those two tropes apply to the scene. It also potholes Bolivian Army Ending in a ZCE way, forcing the reader to know what that trope is off the top of their head, or visit that trope page to learn what it is.

I'm sorry. I was in a bad mood yesterday. You are right that a good deal of them do need more context, and I can't expect you to watch through the entire series to fix them. I do wish there was a better way than just commenting them out. It feels a bit like sweeping dirt under the rug. Yes, it makes the place look nicer, but it's not actually cleaner, if you know what I mean.

I'll try to make another pass and clean them up more at some point.

It's fine. I've had a stinking cold, so I haven't exactly been at my best either. To be honest, I did forget about the sheer amount that were commented out on this page, so it's good to be reminded. I can certainly add context to some of them and can work my way through those this coming weekend.

And, yes, I agree with the 'dirt under the rug' analogy. it only makes the face of the page look nicer. It doesn't clean up the working page in the slightest.

Breakout Character has an admittedly messy trope description, which doesn't help identifying characters who fit the trope. It is currently at the Trope Repair Shop, but the repair seems to have only just started.

At the moment, the trope appears to state that a character's popularity leads the originally minor character to be rewritten as one of the main characters.

Breakout Villain is a subtrope that states this is an accidental situation, where a villain is originally written as a one-shot, or minor, villain but something about the villain makes him so popular that he gets rewritten to remain in the story and become the major villain of the work. The fact that the Breakout Villain becomes the main villain is a type of main character.

Neo clearly isn't a Breakout Villain because she's not the main villain of Chibi and she isn't accidentally popular anyway (she was hyped long before her first episode). She's certainly given a much larger role, so the issue is whether or not she classifies as a member of the main cast (given that Breakout Character explicitly states this does not cover characters who gain a much larger supporting role).

I don't interpret Neo as being a member of the main cast. She's the major supporting villain for Roman, who appears to have joined Cinder as being the major villain the kids are dealing directly with.

The other option is to wait for the trope to be repaired and then revisit it once we know its final form.

The usual usage of the trope is it's a minor character given a larger role due to popularity. It can be, but isn't limited to becoming a main character. Yes, she was hyped up, but her popularity seemed to have exceeded expectations. She's such a heavily talked about character for someone who started off with such a small role.

Ok sure, if it's on cleanup then waiting is fine.

Well, it explicitly states that if they're just getting a larger role due to popularity but they still classify as a supporting character, that's just the Ensemble Dark Horse trope, which is possibly a problem as that's not entirely what the Ensemble Dark Horse trope is. Hopefully the trope repair shot can clean up the description.

Yang and Ren's entries have been added back to the the page without coming to the discussion page. Ren's entry has been rewritten to reference yet another show as the "shout out". Ren really doesn't look like an example if fans are coming up with multiple different shows he might be similar to (three shows so far). The trope is supposed to be deliberate, not fan association:

• Ren's Training Montage in Episode 9 includes him doing pushups with one finger before removing the finger and doing no-handed pushups.

Well, I've given it a couple of weeks for responses. I am adding the following back to the page, and leaving the rest off, for the above reasons.

• Shout-Out
  • Blake hiding perfectly behind a coat rack is a nod to a Rooster Teeth Podcast episode where Burnie Burns accuses Gavin Free of being able to hide behind a flagpole.
  • While using Blake's Gambol Shroud in episode 7, Jaune pretends to be a ninja and says "Crouching tiger, hidden Jaune!"
  • Yang's weight loss montage is a shout out to Rocky, complete with a remix of "I Burn" in the style of "Eye of the Tiger".
  • During Ren's Training Montage, his push-ups transition from normal, to one-handed, to no-handed, stopping only when he runs out of breath from pushing himself off the ground with puffs of air. The YouTube episode added a subtitles joke about the scene confirming that Ren is an Air-Bender.