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So there is a topic on this already but it's over a year old so I figured I'd make a new one to get people's attention.
Now that the game has gotten an official translation what exactly are we going to do about the naming standards? Because as it stands while most characters have the exact same names in the original and English translations the standard used right now is to refer to them by their last names. Great for people who came into it with the Let's Play but for people like me who came in with the English translation it takes a bit of work to figure out whose being referred to since the English version uses first names.
Now the page says to use last names, but the problem is that it goes against the site's policy; if there's an official English translation that takes priority over anything else, as seen every time these issues go to Ask The Tropers . Looking through the page history there doesn't seem to be a big drama between the First Name/Last Name camps, but it might be a good idea to discuss it now and come up with a compromise rather than someone taking this to ATT and getting the mods to get involved and alienating one side or the other.
It's best we keep it as it is. The best idea is to avoid edit drama, and it would cause more of a hassle to change everything. Besides, things like Genocide Jack are dub changes and the fanbase almost never refers it as such. This would keep things consistent, I was the one to add that bit on translation consistency, to avoid a potential edit war.
Also, I plan sometime in June to take a large scale revise of the DR pages and I wish to make everything consistent.
It doesn't really matter, especially since the anime subtitles use different terminology anyway. But I would simply think this is for the best.
What of the fanbase (like myself) who came into it with the English release this year and don't really have any attachment to the original Genocide Syo? What makes this page different from any other work from Japan that received an official English localisation and those pages all use the English version (since as Fast Eddie and the other mods like to remind people when naming conventions come up that this is an English-speaking wiki).
But to put it a different way; you're right by the original Japanese version to use Naegi to refer to the character. Anyone picked up the English release won't get that right away and would be better severed by using Makoto. What makes one better than the other?
For my own personal stance having stayed away from the let's plays and translations and waited for the English release to play through for myself, I know exactly four character's last names off by heart; Naegi, Kigiri, Togami and Enoshima. When reading this page I either have to stop and think back on things or go and consult the character page to figure out any of the others.
So...I really don't have a good answer to the issue as there are problems either way (people who picked up the English version getting confused by the Last Name basis of the page, original Japanese and SA let's players annoyed at the use of the First Name rather than how it was originally). I suppose we're lucky in that so far there haven't been that many issues.
I understand your point, but, as you said, there isn't a good answer to this issue. I just feel keeping it as it is is the safer option, given that keeping to the original Japenese is at worst going alienate people who got in through the localization, wheres the localization would probualy a lot more dangorous given the Hatedom it has.
I still reconize your concern, though! I'll give this a think through.
Thanks for that. It's not a big issue for me (I can figure out enough based on context), and it doesn't seem like this is going to become an issue. Not sure how many people who came in on the English release,so if nobodies raising issues then we should be good.
I know this is an old discussion, but I've been thinking about this too and want to throw in my two cents.
As someone who was brought in through Oren's translation and has played through the official translation, I feel that name referral is something to consider. Instances such as Genocider Syo/Genocide Jack are one thing, but the rest of the cast just seems silly. Even with the crowd who stuck with the original Japanese, there's a few characters who are already referred by fans with their first names (ex. Mondo, Chihiro, Junko), so I feel that changing it to first names wouldn't cause that much drama. There's also the fact that the English translation for the titles are used instead of the translations versions (I.E. Ultimate Lucky Student instead of Super High School Level Good Luck), and I haven't seen any edit wars about that. There's also the fact that there will be editors who came in from the English version instead of the fan translations. There honestly isn't a good answer for this question, as no matter what happens someone's gonna be unhappy. But there honestly doesn't feel like there's a need to keep it last name only.
I'd like to make an entry for the plants in the greenhouse but I'm not sure how to classify them:
That's a horrible misuse of Example Indentation, but the example is legitimate. I'd just put it in as such:
Cool, thanks, I'll add it in "Trivia".
Not entirely sure how to bring this up correctly, first time I've ever posted in one of these... but apparently since Super Dangan Ronpa 2 has been licensed the translation for Dangan Ronpa IF has been taken down by the poster. If anyone can find one, should we put up a new link or just remove the old one and leave it like that?
Probably keep it removed, since it'd be breaking various copyright laws and what not which we're not supposed to be linking to.
I'm wondering if Naegi and Kirigiri counts as Brooding Girl, Gentle Boy.
So would Monokuma be an (evil) Expy or a Shout-Out to Kuma/Teddie from Persona 4?
They're both (deliberately) cute bears with a lot to hide (and Dangan Ronpa gets compared to Persona 4 a fair bit) and very similar voices. Plus, at one point Monokuma even begins speaking with Kuma's Verbal Tic of ending sentences with "-kuma," which translators handle exactly like they did with Teddie: making un-bear-ably lame puns. That, at least, warrants a Shout-Out, but I'm wondering if he'd qualify for a full-on Expy status.
Just a heads up, I'm planning to change names around soon so everyone's referred to by last name, to get some consistency, so we don't get some entries using Makoto while others use Naegi (or occasionally, both), and last names are being used over first names because, with rare exceptions, that's how the game usually refers to everyone.
I'll also be switching Monobear to Monokuma because both official translations, NISA and Funimation seem to be using the latter. If NISA changes to using Monobear, then I'll switch it back.
The editing knife was taken a bit too liberally here, particularly the Meaningful Name section. Changing EVERY instance of a given name being used kinda messed it up. Changing a few, but not sure if I missed a couple where using the given name instead of the family name is important.
Additionally, I changed one of Asahina's quotes since she almost exclusively calls Ogami "Sakura-chan", but went ahead and added a note to try and keep it in line with using Surnames to refer to everyone.
Ah, thanks, and my bad. I tried (emphasis on tried, in case I screwed up somewhere) to be more precise about editing the Characters and YMMV pages, but I forgot that I edited the main page rather generally.
Is the title of the work considered one word or two? It's rather inconsistent seeing "Danganronpa" and "Dangan Ronpa" used interchangeably on the page.
Crossposting this from the Super Dangan Ronpa 2 discussions.
Now that the Super Dangan Ronpa 2 Let's Play has started, it's about time to launch the spoiler-free page out of the sandbox. The question is, how to go about it.
My first thought was to place it in the Lets Play namespace, but I could use some opinions on the matter as to how to handle it.
A possible option could be to list it under Super Dangan Ronpa 2 LP or Super Dangan Ronpa 2 Spoiler Free, so that a separate spoiler-free character sheet could be created.
The sandboxed version is currently HERE.
Should we remove all spoiler tags and adopt a "no marked spoilers, it's impossible to list tropes without ruining the game, proceed at own risk" policy? The fact that we have multiple entries that are completely blanked out, even the trope name, seem to point to this being the case. I think it makes the page seem either messy or full of Self Fulfilling Spoilers.
I think it's a good idea, since otherwise there are very few spoiler-free examples. I'm not familiar with how this policy is usually carried out though. Do we want some time to elapse before we enable this, or reveal all spoilers from the get-go?
Feel free to de-spoiler everything after putting an All spoilers are unmarked warning.
Now that Chapter 6 has concluded, is it safe to retire the spoiler policy, or should we wait for the LP to reach the end credits? The main plot has pretty much reached a conclusion, after all.
As someone who advocated for keeping the spoiler policy, now that Enoshima Junko is well and truly dead, and the only thing that seems to be left is for the survivors to get out of the school, I say it has served it's purpose. Also, can we tag Naegi as Super High-School Level Hope now?
What are people's opinions on the development of an entry on Dangan Ronpa 2 at this time? The LP should be close (if not already) finishing up, so there should be little harm in getting an entry set up and started without pissing some (or many) people off. The main point of the current spoiler policy is, as it seems, for people to be able to contribute while keeping from getting spoiled themselves. Seeing that we're departing from that policy for the second game (creating a second page or whatever), there should be little reason to wait for another month or so for the LP to finish before starting the entry.
Besides, it might be wise to lay down the ground rules and agreement in the page ahead of time before people start getting funny ideas and tropes get deleted (and people get pissed off) when things really do get started.
Okay, now that the DR 1 LP is near conclusion, we can talk about DR 2.
Current plan is to make a new, spoiler-free page once the DR 2 LP starts (while keeping the one currently in place unrestricted), though I'm not sure when that will be. Until then, I'm not sure how to handle the DR 2 page(haven't read any of the stuff under spoiler tags).
Having a separate spoiler-free page for Super Dangan Ronpa 2 sounds pretty fine. As for the current page, the spoiler is a pretty big one so I think we can keep it there, since I also think people who know how DR 2 goes might get restless if we wait to add spoilers to it until orenronen starts his DR 2 L. There's also the case of the What If? story Dangan Ronpa IF. Should we have tropes regarding that story under the original DR's character page, or should we split that off into a page of it's own and have a character sheet there as well?
Regarding DR-IF: I'm thinking it would be best to create a new page for that.
DR-IF is a pretty short story, so I feel that creating a separate subsection within Super Dangan Ronpa 2 or Dangan Ronpa would be more appropriate. Also, what do people think about combining the character sheets once everything is over with? Since both games take place in the exact same world and share a number of characters that appear in both games, albeit with a small role, this would make a little more sense than keeping the pages as two separate entities
I'd say we should have them separate until we find out just what to do with the spoiler policy. There's some big spoilers involving certain DR characters in the sequel and the IF story, and I'd like to sort that out first before we decide on merging pages and what-not.
I concur with the above. In fact, I feel no need to combine the character sheets. If there's any returning characters from DR 1 besides Monobear and Togami, the two I know of from previews, they can be listed again in a Spoiler section of the DR 2 character page.
Incidentally, since the DR 2 page is rapidly filling up with white bars, I've started the sandbox on the spoiler-free page to avoid exposure to spoilers, since the plot of the entire game could be up there by the time the DR 2 LP starts. I've put it HERE for now. The character sheets for DR 2, sans spoilers, might be added to the bottom for reference, as well.
That's a good idea. By the way, shall we keep the IF story on the normal Super Dangan Ronpa 2 page, make a new page for it, or have it on the original Dangan Ronpa page? And should we have character spoilers regarding IF on the original Dangan Ronpa character sheet?
Also, nice that you're working on the spoiler-free Super Dangan Ronpa 2 page, even if it currently only exists as a sandbox.
It would probably be more coherent to keep the IF story in the original Dangan Ronpa as a subsection then. If we're not planning on combining character sheets, considering there are a lot of tropes that pertain to Mukuro Ikusaba, it wouldn't make much sense to post tropes about it in Dangan Ronpa's character sheet but talk about the IF story as a whole in Super Dangan Ronpa 2, much less create a separate page for it
I suppose that makes sense. Especially since Mukuro Ikusaba is the protagonist for it. We should at least mention that it comes from Super Dangan Ronpa 2 though.
basic setup to include a section for the IF story has been made, along with a sentence intro in the main introduction. Change it as you see fit
This was removed from the main page:
The rationale given was "And this is on the page, why?" I do not follow. The Stripperiffic page has no special notations saying it can't be on the main page or that aversions shouldn't be listed. Is there a special case I am not aware of?
My two cents on the matter: Aversions don't really need to be listed unless the work itself sets up an expectation or it's otherwise significant. Otherwise, a work page would get cluttered with the tropes which don't occur in the work, such as:
I suspect that was the reasoning of the person who removed that.
Seriously, there was no need to put that trope on the page. If aversions could be listed without abandon, every page would be filled with tons of tropes that are "aversions." Aversions are not to be listed unless the work somehow set up an expectation for that trope. Which this one didn't. Otherwise, it becomes the same thing as shoehorning in tropes on works they don't belong in.
Tropes like that certainly do exist, but they are prefaced with a "don't list aversions" message in their main page. Stripperiffic notably does not, so I believe it's fair game.
And actually, I would say the fact that it's an aversion is somewhat significant, given how prolific the trope is (especially in Japanese games).
Just because it doesn't say to not to list aversions it, doesn't mean you should. Not every trope has that label, and the mods don't want people putting aversions on pages willy nilly.
Besides, why does it matter how prolific the trope is in Japanese games? I don't see any reason to expect that trope to pop up in this sort of game, especially when the game itself sets up no such expectation.
The page itself lists somewhere around 25 aversions in the examples page. Also, the "comics" folder is prefaced with a message that's the opposite of what you say:
In sum, I am honestly confused as to why you think aversions are so standard that including them is a waste of space. The actual page itself seems to give the opposite message.
[I don't see any reason to expect that trope to pop up in this sort of game]
I do — as do, it seems, many others, judging by the fact that message in the "anime and manga" folder on the main page is still there. I suppose it comes down to personal expectations, then, but that's not good basis for deciding whether or not to include tropes.
When you have characters with the title Super High-School Level Idol and Fashion Girl (and as a throw in, Super High-School Level Gambler and Swimmer), there is still some justification for Stripperific expectations in this game. People may be more willing to accept an entry on its aversion if you state a(n) (reasonable) expectation like such.
We're not gonna be enforcing the spoiler policy on Dangan Ronpa 2, are we? I mean, the only reason there was such a policy for the first game (which people seem to be disregarding now), was because there was no information at the time, and the LP was the only way to see the game in English. But now, DR 2 has a much bigger fandom, and has much more information about it on the internet.
I don't remember any discussion on removing the spoiler policy. It seemed like just one person changing things on their own.
Since there's more information on DR 2 floating around, my suggestion would be to make two pages for the game once the LP of DR 2 begins(the person L Ping the first game is planning to make an LP of the second game once the first one's finished).
One page would be updated along with the LP for those looking for information about the game without worrying about having the endgame spoiled, and the other would have no spoiler policy. The two pages could then be merged once the LP finishes.
Does this sound like a good plan?
Eh, sounds a bit unnecessary, and there's articles on this site about Japanese only games that have lots of info on them. Though there's not a lot of info on this game, so I guess we should keep the spoiler policy until the LP is over. In fact, we might want to refrain from making a DR2 page until the LP is over, to avoid accidentally spoiling the first game, if there are such spoilers.
Apologies on the edits, but I disagree with the spoiler policy. People shouldn't feel compelled to have to wait for a LP to finish in order to post spoiler tropes about the game. This is kind of like saying, for a given anime adaption, people shouldn't post spoilers, even with spoiler tags, on events that happened in the novels but not in the anime yet, because "Not everyone understands Japanese to follow the novels".
I understand the motivation in people wanting to control spoilers within the LP threads on SA, or some people wanting rope the tvtropes article along with the progress in the LP while avoiding spoiling the game themselves. I won't say anything more for DR 1 since the LP (apparently) only has 1 chapter to go before wrapping up, but as for DR 2, I believe it would be unfair for people who want to create and contribute to the page only to be restricted by others insisting on keeping everything spoiler-free according to the progress of a LP that they may or may not have interest in.
I am not familiar with the spoiler policies of SA, but its handling should be kept separate from those of TV Tropes. If you insist on making a separate page for DR 2, nobody's going to stop you, but let me be clear that the main page on the game should NOT be restricted on spoilers, and the LP page should only serve as a peripheral for those who care, NOT the other way around
I do understand your point of view, which is why I suggested a separate page with the spoiler policy in place. That way, the main page can be unrestricted, with a note warning people reading the LP that the main page may contain endgame spoilers and directing them to the "safe page". It also makes it a little easier to enforce the spoiler policy on the safe page (barring deliberate trolling).
Since the DR 1 LP is likely to only be a few months away from completion, we can leave the spoiler policy up here for now, but for the second game, I think having a spoiler-free "safe page" would be a good compromise.
Any other opinions on this idea?
This spoiler policy is stupid. The game has been out for two years in japan, and even if it wasn't, why can't people just use the spoiler tags? "But I want to trope this game and not be spoiled", you might say, and I will reply: "This site is called TV Tropes, not Gushing About Shows You Like via EntryPimping" TV Tropes is first and foremost, a collection, a catalog (it even says so in the main page) of tropes. It's completely OK to use spoiler tags for major events in the game, it's not okay, however, to forbid or delete all spoiler tropes in your case of Misaimed Fandom.
A lot of people have become invested in Dangan Ronpa through the LP (enough to pay for an SA account) and would likely react unfavourably to spoilers that spoil things that's not in the LP yet. I believe that includes most of the followers on TV Tropes, so I think it's fine to have the spoiler policy in effect for the duration of the first game at least. I think some of it is also partly to honor orenronen who put real effort into this so people, who would otherwise have been inconvenienced by the usual hurdle of Japanese text and voices (AKA not knowing what the heck is going on), can enjoy this game through a high-quality LP.
I agree with German Troper. Keep in mind that this spoiler policy is not only keeping others from posting tropes about end-game spoilers, but it is also HOLDING UP ENTRY DEVELOPMENT FOR DANGAN RONPA 2. I will stand by my position as I've previously posted, but don't be surprised if this boils over and an editing wars gets started over this.
Which brings up another point, going back to the "But I want to trope this game and not be spoiled", besides catering to spoiler control in the SA forums, I don't see why we really have to wait for the LP to finish before creating and developing an entry for Dangan Ronpa 2, especially if it's going to take another month or so for the LP to finish
Orenronen has been asking for suggestions about things to touch up in the translation before the LP is put in the archive. I have a few things I'd like to mention, but... I don't have an account on the SA forums, and I'm unable to buy one any time soon.
Would someone with an account there possibly be willing to relay it to him? If there's anyone who could do that, feel free to PM me about it. I'm sorry if this seems like a dumb request. (Also, none of the things I'm concerned about are spoilers.)
I've noticed that we're being rather inconsistent about names (Monobear vs. Monokuma, Makoto vs. Naegi, etc.). How should we handle this?
In the case of Mono****, -bear is more widespread on account of being the one used in the LP, but it's not actually an official name. In the case of the students, should we go with the more commonly used names (Chihiro Fujisaki, Makoto Naegi, etc.) or consistency (first names like Chihiro and Makoto, or last names like Fujisaki and Naegi)?
I vote for the commonly used names. I've almost never seen Ishimaru referred to as Kiyotaka in the LP comments, for example.
Are we allowed to post spoilers that are not in the LP yet?
I'd say we shouldn't spoil events the LP hasn't covered yet. Not everyone speaks Japanese, after all, and it wouldn't be fair to those who are watching the LP and cannot play the game themselves to have the plot spoiled by those who can. Having the spoilers here increases the chances of having spoilers leak into the LP thread, after all.
This is just my opinion, though. Anyone else agree or disagree?
Well, should we put Genocider Syo as an Ensemble Darkhorse?
I disagree, just put spoilers in spoiler tags. This is an article on the game NOT the lp.
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How well does it match the trope?