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Why would someone change the image without a discussion?!
Should the spoiler warning at the top of the main page be updated to include Civil War? The episode that aired on May 10 had a few pretty major spoilers for the movie for anyone who hadn't seen it yet.
Should we include a different opening quote for the page topper? Since, you know, Grant Ward hasn't been a good guy since, well, season one? I was thinking this quote from the Season 1 finale:
Or maybe some shortened version of this quote.
Should we go ahead and add the spoiler warning for Avengers: Age of Ultron?
"Season 2 will also include Mockingbird joining Team Coulson."
Can anyone confirm this ? I've searched and either this is wishful thinking based on no evidence to date (that Mockingbird will be a regular) or it's badly written (Mockingbird will be in the show, not a member of the bus).
I was thinking of rewriting it to say Mockingbird would be appearing in Season Two.
So the edit page asks not to reinstate Five-Man Band because it was removed due to shoehorning. How the heck is it shoehorning? Agents of Shield has one of the straightest cases of a Five-Man Band I've ever seen:
At a guess, it's the Fitzsimmons that breaks it. I agree with you, but this is one particular trope that is resistant to tweeking.
Nope. Doesn't count. The Lancer can never be female.
Sadly, I'm not just being a jerk. Five-Man Band is stupidly strict. It must be four males and a female, with the female being The Chick, or it doesn't count.
The reason it's like this is that at one time this was a hugely common trope seen everywhere and always in this exact formation, but it's become less common recently and has become something of a Dead Horse Trope, in part because it's so strict... since that formula's fallen out of vogue it's next to impossible now to find straight examples unless the author was intentionally going for that trope.
Check out The Team for a possible replacement.
This may be very silly of me, but here it goes. In "Light in the Darkness" there are two references to other members of the MCU, namely Skye mockingly calling Konig "Steve Rodgers", and Fitz saying that the solution he comes up with for the episodes Big Bad is based on stuff from Bruce Banner. Do these count as Mythology Gags, Shout Outs, or some third opption that has escaped me?
Shout-Out, I'd say. A mythology gag is about the Meta-text of the story. AGENTS is clearly in The 'Verse.
Wouldn't it be Continuity Nod? Shout-Out is usually a Shout-Out to something completely unrelated to the work.
I think we need to cut back on what counts as a Wham Episode on this show. According to the trope, it is:
"The point in a series where the story takes a sudden dramatic turn. Things will never be quite the same again.
When advertisements tease you with words such as "The most shocking episode of the season!", they're probably referring to this (unless they're not). This is the episode meant to radically alter the status quo, and in doing so send a major shock through the viewership."
Having multiple Wham Episodes is understandable - just look at Game of Thrones, but when the Main page lists Episodes 10 through 17 all as Wham Episodes and the Recap page adding 19 to the list, something is very wrong. It definitely needs some trimming down. Now, "Turn, Turn, Turn"... that is a definite example, but "Seeds" for two low-key cases of The Reveal? Cut. Wham Lines and whatnot are fine on their own, but that alone does not a Wham Episode make.
I agree with you completely. I'm actually not sure any episodes other than "Turn, Turn, Turn," count, personally. Maybe "End of the Beginning". A Wham Episode should vary from the baseline, and the baseline has been raised.
"Only Light in the Darkness" definitely isn't, but I can't recall most of the others by name, so I'm not sure.
Listing "Yes Men," which is almost entirely disconnected from the rest of the series except a ten-second stinger, is also pretty ridiculous.
I agree with "Turn, Turn, Turn," being the only Wham Episode in the show.
I cut most of them:
I think "End of the Beginning" is borderline and wouldn't mind if someone else wants to cut it (it's almost like a two-part episode with "Turn, Turn, Turn", given the massive cliffhanger it ends on). "String of Wham Episodes" is not possible by definition. Given the new Arc-centric direction of the show, I think it's safe to say that even one or two major reveals can't qualify an episode; it has to seriously change the trajectory of the arc somehow, like HYDRA's reemergence did.
The spoiler tag situation on this page has gotten out of hand. Just eyeballing it I'd say somewhere from 2/3-3/4 of the examples are tagged, many of which are completely whited out which is technically not allowed. It's one thing to tag major spoilers, it's another thing to tag every single remotely surprising plot development. Normally I just singlehandedly fix things like this, but this is a long page and at least some of the tags are legitimate. From the recent history alone, I notice someone tagged Fitz shooting a Mook. That clearly falls under "If you didn't want that spoiled, don't read the work page."
Well, since there are no responses, I've started slashing and burning. If anyone disagrees with some of the stuff I'm untagging, feel free to post it here. The current page is a Signal To Noise Trainwreck.
I got to the letter "D" before deciding it was getting too exhausting to continue for the time being. I'll come back later but it would be nice if someone else wanted to help make the page minimally legible.
There's a glitch that discussion pages don't always show up on watchlists. That's why no one replied.
Anyway, you are allowed to spoiler-tag entire entries (minus the trope name, which should never be tagged). You're supposed to try to avoid it, but it's not flat-out against the rules. That being said, most of your edits look fine, though I'm still looking over them. A good number of them were indeed unnecessary tags. I just want to make sure you're not un-tagging things like HYDRA's existence under the logic "everyone already knows."
I actually did un-tag that particular development, but for a different reason; it is literally impossible to talk about current episodes without talking about it, so spoiler-tagging that particular development means being essentially unable to talk about recent episodes at all. There comes a point where you're spoiler-tagging so much that there's nothing left for the people who don't highlight the spoilers, and I think trying to keep the existence of HYDRA a secret crosses that line.
Oh, and FWIW, I definitely erred on the side of un-tagging too much. Intentionally. The pendulum was so far in the other direction that I figured it was better to untag the borderline cases and let other people argue with me about the ones that turn out to be mistakes than to leave the status quo.
Actually, it's better to err on the side of not untagging too much, so people don't have to waste their time cleaning up after your mistakes.
If you're deliberately going to not even try to not make mistakes everyone else will have to fix, do everyone a favor and don't edit.
People who don't care about spoilers can just deactivate them. People who do care would rather err on the side of caution.
Not un-tagging stuff that should be un-tagged is also a mistake. It's better to make a mistake someone else will be motivated to fix, than to make a mistake that hardly anyone will care to fix and will just accumulate with the other similar mistakes that have made the page the mess it is right now. And I'm by definition only un-tagging the things that I believe are at least close to the line, so the "damage" I'm "risking" is both minimal and a matter of opinion.
Ironically, I care about keeping the use of spoiler tags reasonable because I don't want to deactivate spoiler tagging completely. Having 70%+ of the examples spoiler-tagged means the only reasonable way to read the page is to highlight everything, so the spoiler tags become useless. Keeping them limited to actual spoilers allows them to do their job.
All of that said, I'm glad other people are paying attention to this because I really didn't intend to just unilaterally decide how this stuff is going to work. In that vein, I'm going to start posting general principles I'm using when making these edits so other people can offer their opinions.
Agree with everything but the last one. We've made it clear that we're using male pronouns for the Clairvoyant out of convenience's sake; the fact that he actually is male isn't really relevant. Furthermore, it's not too difficult to hide stuff about the fake reveal of Victoria Hand being the Clairvoyant, since she dies the episode after.
So I'm 99% done with my rampage now, though I may come back and do something about Wham Line; quotes are offically Spoilers Off material, though I'll probably show a little more finesse than cutting the quotes or removing the spoiler tags.
That's quotes at the top of a page.
That's not what it says.
The character page says "WARNING. These pages assume that you are up to date with the films up to The Avengers and Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Relevant spoilers will be unmarked." Should we announce the same here?
I don't think anything left in The Avengers is a spoiler (I mean the biggest one is Coulson getting killed by Loki and that's necessary backstory for this show), but I think the biggest stuff from Captain America should be tagged. I think it's bad form to spoil movies that came out after the show started.
To be clear, I don't mind it on the character pages. I think that the more detailed a page gets, the less should be tagged, with the extreme case being the Recap pages which are 100% tag free. But I don't think it's fair to say "you shouldn't read the main page about this series unless you've watched movies that are chronologically after parts of it"
What about Fury being Not Quite Dead? It makes sense in the movie, as he dies and is revealed later to be alive. But here, you either saw the movie (the full movie) or you didn't; if you saw it, you know that he staged his death, if you didn't, you didn't even know it. In the series, he is mentioned to have been killed. Off screen, somewhere else, very far away from the action, and without influencing the plot other for increasing the Diabolus ex Machina. And he's mentioned to be alive but hiding at the next episode. Again, without influencing the plot. Nick Fury eventually makes a second appearence, but at this point it was a surprise only for the characters who were not up to the secret, not to the audience.
I don't have a strong opinion either way since it's revealed in the very next episode (by Eric Koenig). I was actually kind of pissed that people spoiled it for me on the "Turn, Turn, Turn," recap page, but it's kind of old news now.
After the Winter Soldier. Is it safe to say that Centipede is affliated with HYDRA?
I'd say so. It's leader is a member of HYDRA, after all.
Well yeah, I mean Garrett is Hydra. He created the project, so yeah.
Re: "Just Plane Wrong". Those engines on the tail of the "bus"? In "The Hub", we find out that the "bus" has vectored thrust and full VTOL capability. May even uses an engine to literally blow away some troops.
Yeah, I was wondering about that, too - especially since the aft engines don't seem to be running in regular flight. (They didn't ingest any debris in the second episode, either.)
They remain strangely placed, though.
How do they remain strangely placed?
Also, wouldn't the hot exhaust damage the rear engines even if they weren't running?
That's what I meant by 'strangely placed'. (According to the official bluebrints, they are not directly in line, though.) It doesn't make much sense and can't be good for the engines, but it does make a little bit more sense if they are only used for VTOL.
Am I the ONLY one who found the reference to Fitz-Simmons wanting a fish tank installed on the Bus (in 0-8-4's Stinger) a Shout-Out to Picard's fish tank in Star Trek: Next Generation? If it doesn't "qualify" as a shout-out, why not?
For the same reason it didn't count as a shout out to the fish tank in mass effect.
Fish tanks are fairly common decorations, so there's no reason to take the idea of one being used as such as a reference to any of the billions of fish tanks in fiction (you might as well argue that it was a reference to A Fish Called Wanda or a certain Monty Python sketch.
How many of those fish tanks were aboard the main vehicles of the characters, as in Star Trek or (I suppose, I don't know the game) Mass Effect? Putting the fish tank on the ship is what does it for me. Plus, the element of the British Dividual being the one that wanted it, also mirroring Picard's character (yes, we know he was supposed to be French, but aside from the name, what about Jean-Luc Picard was not British?).
"Billions" of fish tanks? You've just named the only 2 I can bring to mind and added 1 I have only read about. :grinning:
... huh? You totally lost me.
A fish tanks in an executive's quarters is a common trope. Both Picard and the Mass Effect are just examples of this. Ditto Coulson. It just so happens that their quarters are all mobile. I mean, it's not like Coulson has the opportunity to have a non-mobile fish tank.
It seems that several editors have independently added/removed Skye not knowing the difference between the safety catch and magazine release and making this mistake later in the episode at a critical moment as an example of Chekhov's Skill.
It seems, to me at least, that while it's neither an aversion or straight example, it's clearly an Inverted Trope (as opposed to a skill someone's shown practising which shows up and comes in handy, it's a mistake someone keeps making which causes complications at a critical moment) which is worth mentioning.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the matter?
It's Chekhov's Gag.
As the OP on the entry I would agree that it is inverted rather than averted, but probably belongs under the Gag category also. Sice my entry has been deleted twice I am gunshy about trying a third time however.
It mentions that the trailer driver in episode 3 being named "Mack" is a Punny Name. Could someone clarify?
...well now I feel silly.
I don't want to start an edit war, so I mention it here. The definition I read is not "phrases mentioned that have greater significance" That's some kind of foreshadowing, not Arc Words. Can someone justify the current entry to me, because right now it reads as "Little hints that Coulson is an LMD" as opposed to Arc Words. Have we even had an Arc, yet?
Part of the issue is that Arc Words is a horribly, horribly defined trope. There's a reason it's in TRS. I'd say just leave it for the moment, and once TRS figures out what it means, we'll deal with it then.
Is there a trope for the situation in which Coulson knows for a fact since he was there that Franklin Hall wanted the Gravity Machine destroyed along with all who know about its existence, but yet Coulson doesn't actually destroy it and his sentimentality for the person in question appears to have been part of his reason for just putting it away where no one ever will find it?
I know meta-wise that it had to be so because of what happened in The Stinger, but in-character it seems like a dopily out of character move (or perhaps stupidly sentimental?) for Coulson.
What Coulson says is entirely Due to the Dead, but it's the exact opposite of what he would have wanted. It might just be Idiot Ball. I think when Graviton finally shows up and Coulson has to defend his decision, we'll learn more about what his reasons were. Maybe.
Coulson might not be able to destroy it. Given what happened in the episode, I got the impression that destroying it could only entail massive collateral damage. So instead he does the next best thing he can and has it locked away as completely as he can.
I got the impression that Coulson doesn't want it destroyed because he thinks at some point in the future they might be able to extract Professor Hall.
I agree with Mr Death. Unlike many other objects that can be flung into the sun, a big chuck of gravity altering stuff might not be the wisest move. Potentially altering the gravity of the sun should be one of those things that you don't do. And given that their one expert on the substance is dead as far as they know, they've likely got no one else they can consult about destroying it. If you can't safely destroy something, then it's better to hide it away without documentation and hope that's the end of it.
The Rebel Attack in "0-8-4": Was it staged?
I had assumed so from the get-go, with the convenient timing and the cars blowing up seemingly for no reason. Plus the members of the army were conveniently well-equipped (a drill and knockout gas dispenser cannot be standard issue).
Reasons against: No one noticed the fact that Every Car Is a Pinto, and it seems like the Comandante wouldn't have enough time to devise a plan and get resources after seeing Coulson.
I believe so considering the episode's villain had a personal history with Coulson and used it to their advantage.
I don't think it was. After all, if there wasn't a rebel attack, the villains could have just killed the team as soon as they had the drop on them, blamed the rebels as they were going to and drove straight home. Being stuck on the Bus added another complication to their plan (since they needed to keep Coulson alive to redirect the plane, and the team alive to extort Coulson).
Is it fair to call the flying car an homage to Back to the Future? In the comics, SHIELD has a long history of such vehicles, using the rotating wheel commonly: http://marvel.wikia.com/S.H.I.E.L.D._Flying_Car
Well, the placement at the end of the film (including how it was suddenly revealed to surprise someone) and the way it takes off look very similar....
Put it on YMMV and problem solved, yes?
That's not how YMMV works. Specific tropes go there.
Anyway, it's pretty clearly an homage. It's done in such a similar way to the Back To The Future scene that it would have to be a pretty huge coincidence. And it's not like Joss Whedon is averse to pop culture references. There's certainly no way that the similarities would have slipped by him unnoticed.
Can we start a Headscratcher Page? Only one episode in and I already have one.
It's how they were able to stop Mike from exploding even though they made it clear there's no way to stop it and they hadn't figured out a third option yet. Taking the centipede off shouldn't work, as the Extremis virus changes the host's physiology, and it's not something you can turn off at will, especially under a few minutes.
The Centipede bracelet may incorporate extremis, but it doesn't work exactly the same way.
You can make it yourself, just manually edit the url in your address bar and start the page.
They did find the third option - which is what they shot Mike with at the end. Fitz and Simmons were there too.
At least I think they did..
Yes, they found a third option. They loaded it into the "Night Night" gun which was what Ward shot Mike with.
Yeah, there was some technobabble earlier that stated it was tied directly to his metabolism or something and the only way to stop it was to kill him... or tranq him.
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