Apologies for the earlier mass edit, I didn't know there was a discussion here. That said, I strongly disagree with the decision to call her "Derpy" here, and on other pages save for her own profile, for that matter. It's important to discuss the name because of how her character's history goes, but otherwise, her official name is "Muffins."
Various showrunners have said Derpy was not an official name, even if they called her that in-house, and aside from The Last Roundup, she has never officially be called that - and as documented there, that was a last-minute sort of thing. She was never credited in the episode, either. In this episode she is given an official credit as Muffins and tweets from showrunners use the name in reference to her.
As for the two arguments to call her "Derpy" here as given below are very weak. We can simply change her name on the site, that we call her Derpy elsewhere is irrelevant. Even more irrelevant is that "Derpy" is how the fanbase knows her. We don't call Bulk Biceps "Snowflake," we don't call Flash Sentry "Brad," and outside her own profile due to the flip-flopping names, we don't call Bon Bon "Sweetie Drops." Why should we call Muffins "Derpy?"
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Because she was called Derpy in-dialogue in the episode "The Last Roundup". Even if the episode was edited in later releases, you can't un-ring a bell
.
I don't know how to explain it any better at the moment, but to me the fact the episode was changed does nothing to extinguish the information that Derpy was called Derpy.
If that seems weak or unconvincing, that's unfortunate. Maybe someone else can explain it better.
I don't think that changing Derpy's name to "Muffins" over the whole page is a good idea, canon or not. This is going to confuse people more than anything. I vote for keeping it to "Derpy" and putting a note on top of the page asking for not changing it, to pre-empt any edit war.
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I'm the one who made the change based on the episode credits. My motion would be to add a note at the top of the page stating she is named as "Muffins" in the credits, contrary to her fan nickname.
And I'm stating again: that was a bad idea. People reading the page are likely used to the fanon name that has been used for years by now, and will be confused by this. You should have asked for a consensus on this before making such a large change.
"Muffins" is just a name that Hasbro is using simply for the sake of calling her *something*. It doesn't mean anything. Her name is, and always will be, Derpy.
Edited by LanceOmikron
Unlike Bon Bon/Sweetie Drops, her name still hasn't been used In-Universe (assuming one respects the Orwellian Retcon). Therefore, the closest thing we have to go by is the credits, which were written by DHX and Studio B. While God Does Not Own This World, they do; I say whatever they decide to name her should be what we call her.
EDIT: If we don't honor the Orwellian Retcon, then we're disrespecting the wishes of Tabitha and Amy, who were both on board with the original retcon.
By the way, something that might sway my stance on this would be along the lines of Death of the Author.
Edited by pvsage
The problem is that "Derpy" is used everywhere else on the wiki whenever a trope including her is mentioned. Are you going to go over every instance on other pages to correct them? A bit of consistency here.
We don't care about the wishes of the authors, we care about what casual readers of the wiki are going to think, fans of the show or not. It's very likely they're used to the name "Derpy", so any change will look very weird to them. Plus you're just inviting an unintentional edit war for any editor that wouldn't check first the comments before changing the name back.
What did I just say? Another editor just switched the name back, just like I expected. Let's agree on putting a comment on top of the page asking to keep it that way.
Ya know, this kind of insistence on Fanon over Canon is one example of Why Fandom Can't Have Nice Things. Whatever. Wiki Magic has spoken; Fan Dumb wins. Call her whatever the heck you want; If I ever meet anyone affiliated with the show, I know that I'll use their name for her.
"Derpy" is what she was called within the show. I, personally, think this has more canon "weight" than the show credits do. The episode was edited to remove her name, true, but that just turns it into a "Han Shot First" debate — there are two versions of the episode, and which one is "more canon" is, frankly, a bit silly. People will insist on their own version — as I admit I do.
Calling the character "Muffins" in the credits is not as simple as it would normally be. She had to be credited as something, and the character's troubled history makes me think this was more of a cop-out or a jokey wink at the fans. I don't think the message was "This is her name now; deal with it." If that had been the intention, the "Muffins" name would have been used in dialogue.
Simply put: I don't agree that the credits are a decree from on high.
"Derpy" was the original name, unambiguously, in-universe. It's not Fanon.
Edited by Softy
Having Ashleigh address her as "Derpy" was a last-minute fandom nod made by the editors when recording for the episode; they literally handed her a note telling her to use that name instead of "Ditsy". Also, although God Does Not Own This World, don't forget that Lauren's original intent was to use her for the "Ditsy Doo" named in "Winter Wrap-Up". Finally, there's the literal meaning of retcon; an Orwellian Retcon supersedes the original version as canon.
Consider this: if DHX were married to calling her "Derpy", would they have been so willing to alter "The Last Roundup"?
Edited by pvsage
I will have to agree that, as far as the wiki goes, the character should be named "Derpy" for now. She may be credited as "Muffins", but she has no official in-universe name if we accept that "The Last Round-up" has been retconned. Plus, not everyone will scour the end credits to verify names all the time. It'd be nice if there was a trope that covered something like renaming, but I'm not familiar with one. It's definitely a sticky issue, but it's better to stick to things people are familiar with rather than something that can easily be missed, unless that is the entire point.
It is fanon. Hasbro retconned the Derpy name, which was only ever used out loud once as a hat tip to fans. It was retconned because it is ableist. If the creator of the show & owner of the property calls her Muffins then a global find/replace is not too much to ask. Insisting on a fandom nickname with hurtful origins is cruel and flies in the face of the show's own message of tolerance.
Don't start on this ableist stuff.
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
I have a bit of a problem with this example:
- It's Personal: Sweetie Drops seems to view capturing the bugbear as a form of redemption after her secret group was disbanded, as she was the one who captured it the first time around.
Problem is, Sweetie Drops wasn't trying to capture the bugbear; she let the Mane Six handle it. She just thought it was pursuing her, and thus it was important that she'd disappear until it was neutralized so that it wouldn't go after her and risk hurting ponies she cared about.
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I realize I'm probably the last troper you'd want to hear from right now, but my read of that scene is Bon Bon/Sweetie Drops sees losing the bugbear as My Greatest Failure, and it is presented as the reason for her Starting a New Life in Ponyville under an assumed name.
The scene with the Doctor bowling, and nearly picking up the 7-10 pin strike... I feel like there's a trope here, about being able to perform a difficult sports task or something like that to "win the big game" that gets subverted, but I don't know what it is. Anyone have any ideas what it would be?
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"Every bowling game comes down to either striking out or converting an extremely tough split."
Edited by Softy
Not sure what trope this would fall under (Ascended Meme perhaps?), but this line of Lyra's sounds like a nod to "Ponies With Hats".
Lyra: You know those expensive imported oats you were saving for a special occasion? I cooked them up and ate them!
Do we have any confirmation that Derpy is, in fact, still the name of the gray pegasus mare? The closest I've heard to any kind of name for her since the Orwellian Retcon that came after Derpygate is "Muffin", and that's from the commentary for Rainbow Rocks.
(Before anyone suggests "best pony" as her name, that's just merch from Welovefine. Nothing they make even approaches Word of Dante; they just sell merch designed by other fans.)
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I'd say that's worth a lot. When it comes to character names, you can't get any closer to canon than the credits.
The Suddenly Voiced entry on the page is a mess at the moment, grouping a whole bunch of characters together and being a bit looser with the definition than I'd like.
The general idea behind Suddenly Voiced is that a character who was previously The Voiceless suddenly starts talking. However, in the case of a lot of the characters listed, it seems to me more like they didn't get voice lines simply because of their very minor roles, rather than from being The Voiceless. I don't think that's really what Suddenly Voiced is supposed to cover.
The one exception I can think of off the top of my head is Derpy (or whatever she's called now), who actually has been conspicuously mute since The Last Roundup.
DJ Pon-3/Vinyl Scratch is just straight-up The Voiceless; she'd only be a subversion of Suddenly Voiced if we decided that that trope applied in straight form to all those other characters mentioned. (Which we could, I suppose, but right now, based on the trope definitions, I'm leaning toward saying no to that.)
Edited by MrL1193
How do we know that Derpy misprinted the date? Sure, she apologizes to Matilda about the invitations but the first teaser shows something happening to the printing machine...with Featherweight literally right behind it, even getting covered in ink in the process. He also appears in the first sneak peek, again covered in ink. Am I just looking too much into things or could there be more to this than we thought?
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I think it was part of the leaked info about the synopsis that Derpy started it all. We'll soon have confirmation anyway.
My guess is that the printing machine mishap meant no new invitations could be printed, thus leaving no mean of correcting the initial error... or maybe it's entirely unrelated.
I've moved the Jumping the Shark entry from YMMV because it's referenced In-Universe. The original entry was as follows:
- Jumping the Shark: Definitely in the literal sense in that Vinyl and Octavia, atop Vinyl's dub-mobile, jump a toy shark in the middle of the road. But arguably taking the focus off the Mane 6 or CMC and focusing on fan-popular background characters is just that type of episode...
I assume that the potential reasoning for the shark jumping violated In-Universe Examples Only aspect of the trope. Is that so? Could the reasons be referenced if it's being Invoked In-Universe in order to explain why it's funny/ironic? Should we wait until the episode airs to pass judgement?
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, while the writers are surely familiar with the expression, the gag was probably intended as a respectful Shout-Out to Happy Days, which was also in its fifth season (and approaching its 100th episode) when Fonzie jumped the shark tank.
EDIT: Another possibility is that one of the background animators thinks the series has jumped the shark, and snuck in the gag as a kind of Take That! to the series itself.
Edited by pvsage
Moved Jumping the Shark to Self-Deprecation. Wouldn't surprise me if it's a bit of Larsony; we'll have to watch the Twitter feeds.
I see an image has been added. I think it's premature to have an image, especially since their will almost certainly be be more to the episode then what the current picture contains.
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- Adult Fear: Having your client change your deadline for their wedding flower arrangements to 24 hours earlier.
I'm really iffy about including this trope. I think calling any unfortunate event an "Adult Fear" would be Trope Decay.
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It's mundane enough, but I agree it should be left out. I think it's common enough in Real Life customer service jobs to be Too Meaningless To Trope.
EDIT: I think a mishap where the wedding invitations are printed wrong — after all, weddings are special events, and the bride and groom have every reason to want everything to go perfectly — just might pass the bar for Adult Fear, but just barely.
Edited by pvsage
To be honest, I don't really like either of those examples. They seem more like random unforeseen problems than something that ordinary, reasonable adults would worry about specifically.
The image seems to be messed up. Should it be replaced?
"But... nobody told me I needed a signature!"