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Discussion Recap / MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS2E10SecretOfMyExcess

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Mar 16th 2013 at 8:37:30 PM •••

In this episode, we see Lickety Split, who is a young stallion, even though in the G1 movie, Lickety Split was a mare. Any thoughts on these facts?

Edited by CabbitGirlEmi
Apr 24th 2012 at 12:00:03 PM •••

Just because you don't like a particular ship doesn't give you the right to remove any mention of it.

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Apr 24th 2012 at 12:05:04 PM •••

It's not about not liking a ship, it's the assumption on some pages that Rarity should immediately put out just because she knows Spike likes her.

Apr 12th 2012 at 4:27:04 PM •••

if this episode gets a YMMV page, someone please use this this two point argument against the negative Aesop interpretations.

1. they needed to hinder Spike's natural instincts because he would have destroyed the town otherwise.

2. the part with Lickadespit and Junebug were done of Spike's own free will so his is to blame for his greed for those insistences of it.

Dec 20th 2011 at 4:19:49 PM •••

Hmm. Is there a trope to Twilight's brief outraged reaction when the doctor recommends visiting a vet with Spike, who she clearly thinks of not a pet at all?

Dec 16th 2011 at 6:39:38 AM •••

Applejack covering her face with her hat as Spike and Rarity are falling -

How is "I Can't Look/Watch" not a trope? Or am I missing something? I imagine it's in Other Stock Phrases somewhere, but it's a pretty ubiquitous trope, and it's not always verbalized - as in this case.

Is there another trope that encompasses the same idea?

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Dec 16th 2011 at 12:26:12 PM •••

It sounds a little bit like Discretion Shot, but invoked in-universe.

Dec 14th 2011 at 8:33:50 AM •••

Hey guys. What do you think of the way I quote the letters to Celestia? I think it makes the aesop stand out more and I was thinking about going back to the otehr episodes and putting the letters in like that. Good idea? y/n?

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Dec 14th 2011 at 8:51:39 PM •••

The Aesops are certainly a big part of the series, considering we got an episode centered on chasing one down. I think recording them would be beneficial to an understanding of the show. But what would you do for episodes like The Mysterious Mare Do Well, where the letter is not actually written on screen? A similar problem exists in The Stare Master, where the letter is written mostly before we transition into the scene where Twilight is writing it. The morals are still there for both cases, but I'm curious as to how you would format them. And then there's The Show Stoppers, where no letter is even mentioned beyond Twilight wanting to make a special report to the princess, and the moral is lost on the CMC.

tl;dr Good idea, but keep in mind there are exceptions to the norm and they must be covered.

Dec 14th 2011 at 8:24:39 AM •••

Is there such a trope for timely Aesops? Considering that the moral is "better to give than to receive," and this aired two weeks before Christmas, I can't help but believe there is some sort of connection.

Dec 11th 2011 at 6:23:00 PM •••

Don't know if this fits into a trope, but considering that:

  1. Dragons are famous for their greed, and this setting's dragons have been shown not to be exceptions,
  2. Spike is a baby dragon,
  3. Spike has a crush on Rarity, and
  4. Rarity represents the Element of Generosity,

it's kind of surprising in retrospect that it took 36 episodes for the above to drive an episode's plot in combination.

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Dec 11th 2011 at 10:25:55 PM •••

It's certainly an odd, perhaps ironic thing that a creature of greedy nature has feelings for the Element of Generosity, and those feelings may not be entirely unrequited.

There's a correlation in your list, I've noticed: the last three items have been well established since the end of the two-part pilot, but the first item about dragons and their greed has not been seriously focused on until this episode. It has been implied, naturally, but not until this episode have we seen how greed REALLY affects a dragon. Therefore, I believe the first item was the main establishing fact of this episode, while the other three elements helped shape the plot. I consider that some expert storytelling.

Dec 11th 2011 at 11:08:49 AM •••

So I've noticed that Spike's little flashback moment gets just about everything wrong, from the way the gem was turned, to the dialog and length of time it took to get a kiss. Of course, I'm not doubting that this is intentional, but is there a trope that would go with memory getting details so completely wrong?

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Dec 11th 2011 at 11:18:03 AM •••

Like, would this be some kind of notable inversion of Photographic Memory or something?

Dec 11th 2011 at 11:35:56 AM •••

Few people have a photographic memory. It's no surprise that Spike would remember the events a little differently, since he's interacting with Rarity, and as you said, he only got the details wrong, nothing notable.

Dec 11th 2011 at 11:48:29 AM •••

Fair enough. Of course, maybe using notable was kind of a mistake on my part. After all, There Is No Such Thing As Notability.

I also realize that almost nobody has true photographic memory in real life, by the way. Fiction tends to make this trope more common than it should be, so I just thought that maybe this would count as an inversion, and as such would function more like actual memory, where the gist of the situation was remembered, but not many of the details.

I suppose my point was that...

1. I think there's a memory trope here.

2. I think it's related to photographic memory. If that's the case, than it's something other than played straight. If it's not inverted, maybe it's averted?

Edited by lisamariefan
Dec 11th 2011 at 12:59:44 PM •••

I had added Self-Serving Memory before, but it got removed, but I'd argue it is important. The shape and how its handled both in the actual event and in the fantasy are too deliberate to not draw attention to it.

Dec 11th 2011 at 1:09:28 PM •••

I believe its an averted trope. I think photographic memory is used so often because it is simpler to understand and it requires less work for the animators.

Dec 11th 2011 at 4:05:07 PM •••

So would an entry go something like this?

Photographic Memory: Averted. Spike's memory of giving the fire ruby to Rarity is quite different than the way the actual event played out. The dialog is changed, the kiss is immediate, and the fire ruby is flipped upside down when he puts it in Rarity's hoof.

I'd also like to point out that, at least in this case that Spike's memory is actually shorter than the actual event, so part of the reason for including it (from his POV, in fact!) was to allow enough time for a few other things in the show.

Edited by lisamariefan
Dec 11th 2011 at 4:57:42 PM •••

I find this quite peculiar. I agree that the memory sequence would represent some sort of trope(s), but I do not think an averted Photographic Memory would be the correct one; jotting down a character with normal memory seems a little pointless. I think a better description of the sequence would be playing with a Flashback somehow. Perhaps it's a reconstruction of a Flashback, or a downplayed Self-Serving Memory. I can't put my finger on what trope it might be or how it's played...

Dec 11th 2011 at 8:59:09 AM •••

I'm guessing there's probably a trope for the screen going black except for one circular spot (or in this case, lip-shape) at the end? Okay, that sounds odd, but you know what I mean, don't you? What is that trope?

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Dec 10th 2011 at 8:47:24 PM •••

Are pegasi feathers razor-sharp or something? I remember when Fluttershy tried to go to Celestia's party in "A Bird in the Hoof" the guards wings had AudibleSharpness, but the Wonderbolts managed to amputate Spike's spikes just by flying past him.

Edited by Voided939 Hide/Show Replies
Dec 10th 2011 at 9:04:32 PM •••

I think in the Wonderbolts' case, it was their excessive speed that sliced Spike's ...er, spikes.

Dec 10th 2011 at 7:10:21 PM •••

Am I the only one who noticed that the Pediatrician seems to be Twist's father? The connection isn't made directly, but he's a frizzy-haired Earth Pony with glasses who's awkward and slightly "loopy."

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Dec 10th 2011 at 7:30:39 PM •••

Ooh, well spotted. I doubt we'll ever get confirmation on that, though. Wild Mass Guessing?

Dec 10th 2011 at 4:04:03 PM •••

Perhaps we should refrain from using Nothing Is the Same Anymore trope since we're not sure how it will affect/be brought up in future episodes.

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Dec 11th 2011 at 7:49:16 PM •••

Agreed. It was already likely Rarity knew, considering how blatant he was about it, so the only thing this episode changes is that now he knows she knows. And it's still unlikely that anything will come of it — she's as fond of him as any of the mane six, she probably enjoys the attention, and she may think his Precocious Crush is cute, but those don't add up to reciprocating. She's a grown mare; he's Just a Kid.

Not that she doesn't know how to use her powers for good. After all, the whole point of that scene on the bridge was probably to cheer Spike up — she knew she had the best tools for the job.

Dec 10th 2011 at 3:15:55 PM •••

Okay, I know a lot of edits are being made, but why is the page continually locked out? Isn't a page unlocked once an edit is done, or are editors deliberately keeping the pages on edit?

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Dec 10th 2011 at 3:36:57 PM •••

It's not continually locked out. It's just that on Air Date, there are Loads And Loads Of Tropers all trying to edit the page at the same time.

So it's all a matter of who hits [F5] fastest and most frequently who catches it after the previous editor saves their edit. Happens every Saturday, not just today. Honest.

Dec 10th 2011 at 1:15:50 PM •••

And in the interest of avoiding another edit war: "favorite" is American Spelling, "favourite" is European spelling.

The show airs in both places, and there are other trope pages that have European spellings.

So can we just leave European spellings if they turn up without going back and forth?

Dec 10th 2011 at 11:24:00 AM •••

Twilight Sparkle. You mean to tell me you have had Spike since you hatched him, and never once researched how he might grow or mature? That you have not so much as cracked a spine, flipped a page, glanced a look at a single book about dragons and how they grow?! YOU, the pony who ran a slumber party BY THE BOOK?! You had to have Zecora tell you about this?! Confound you, Twilight Sparkle! You drive me to drink!

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Dec 10th 2011 at 11:44:25 AM •••

When it comes to Spike, emotion overrules her normally logical methods. In this case, she was unwilling to learn about how dragons grow, as it would mean accepting the fact that one day he will grow too big and have to leave her.

I know there's a trope for this (because we have tropes for everything!), but I can't think of it/find it. Basically, Twilight is a mother (figure) who doesn't want to accept that her child will "leave the nest".

Dec 10th 2011 at 1:14:48 PM •••

I have a YKTTW about that one too. That every parent sees their child as a baby even when they're growing/grown up and ready to do their own thing.

Oh, and Twilight may never have thought to research dragon life cycles because dragons live to be very, very old and age much slower than the average pony. She might figure Spike would outlive her before he even got out of babyhood, let alone childhood or adolescence. Her tendencies to study also tend to relate to magic as it allows her to control her strong but wild talent.

Edited by ParadiscaCorbasi
Dec 10th 2011 at 1:56:21 PM •••

I'm not buying it yet. Admittedly Spike is the only creature that I can imagine Twilight having that deep of an emotional connection with, aside from Celestia and her parents. But we've seen Twilight research other fields when she feels like it, such as the slumber party and running a marathon. And she seems to be naturally curious, given that she hooked up Pinkie to a... something machine to figure out Pinkie Sense. It's a little hard to believe she didn't look up ANYTHING, particularly when she first hatched him. Perhaps she only has cursory knowledge taught to her by Celestia. That and/or she ignored books that Zecora has read, which I could believe given the ending of "Bridle Gossip."

Dec 10th 2011 at 3:34:55 PM •••

Well, when she hatched Spike, she also got Celestia's attention and praise for having such raw talent. So it's possible that due to being so excited about being Celestia's own protege, and then being so devoted (obsessive, even!) to doing a good job as said protege, Twilight Sparkle at first didn't have time to research about baby dragons. And as he seemed to develop fine on his own — intelligent enough to pretty much serve as her page — she didn't consider it important as compared to getting her own unicorn magic under control and making the Princess proud.

Do we even know whether Spike was with Twilight every second from the moment of his hatching, or if he was given to a dragon nursery or something (presuming he isn't a Parental Abandonment victim of some sort) until he was old enough to speak and take care of himself a little bit?

Edited by ParadiscaCorbasi
Dec 10th 2011 at 5:12:47 PM •••

A simpler explanation is that Twilight has researched dragon life cycles in the past, and she learned that dragons live for centuries — after all, a hundred-year nap is normal for them. However, that research doesn't preclude the possibility that her books had no information about overnight growth spurts driven by excessive greed. So when Twilight wakes up and she sees Spike has suddenly tripled in size, she realizes it's something not covered by her earlier research, and decides to consult others for clues or ideas.

Dec 10th 2011 at 6:10:25 PM •••

Well naturally Spike hasn't been in Twilight's company forever. He is very important to Celestia as well, since his dragonfire is her direct line of communication with Twilight. We also know Spike was sent to Canterlot on royal duty in "Look Before You Sleep." I'm willing to bet that's a regular occurrence. There was also the little incident with him running away, but that wasn't for very long.

Frankly, I'm interested in where Zecora got information that has eluded Twilight, who is probably the only pony in Equestria to have a dragon assistant (or at the very least, the only one we've seen.) If Twilight DID do any research, I severely doubt she would have done it haphazardly; she's so thorough her checklists are the length of a city block. I like my theory of books being there that Zecora read and Twilight didn't. There are a few other ways this could work, but at the end of the day, nothing changes; I'm still as disappointed in Twilight as I was when I watched the episode.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go into my kitchen and do my best impression of Dan Backslide.

Dec 20th 2011 at 3:19:25 AM •••

According to a fairly recent Word of Faust, Spike was mostly raised by Celestia because ponies simply don't know much about dragons (and presumably because Twilight was still a kid herself). Because of that, I'm just assuming that Twilight couldn't do any research on dragon life cycles because there was nothing to research.

In Equestria, at least. Zecora (and probably zebras in general) obviously has access to knowledge, possibly in the form of folklore, that ponies don't.

Edited by Tiroth
Dec 10th 2011 at 11:08:44 AM •••

Spike's framing of the second kiss... can that be a Brick Joke? or is it better for when Twilight tries to clean his cheek? i mean, i didn't expect a joke about not washing his cheek but still

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Dec 10th 2011 at 11:17:28 AM •••

I wouldn't consider either a Brick Joke, honestly. There's nearly no delay between the kisses and what happens to them. However, there simply MUST be a trope for not washing off a kiss or other significant contact. The framing would be an exaggeration of the trope, I believe. If there isn't a trope for that, there should be.

Dec 10th 2011 at 1:13:54 PM •••

The "Never wash again" was under Other Stock Phrases. I started a YKTTW about it this morning.

Dec 10th 2011 at 10:34:58 AM •••

Before it begins an Edit War, I'd say the Zecora Call-Back is valid:

Rule of Three:

  1. Bridle Gossip: The ponies try different solutions and come to Zecora last. In this case it's justified because she's a new acquaintance and they are still afraid to her.
  2. The Cutie Pox: Rule of Three: Applejack herself, Twilight, and finally Zecora.
  3. Secret Of My Excess: The pony doctor, the vet, and finally Zecora.

I realize that if they went to Zecora first and got the solution, it'd be a short episode, and it's good that she's being sought for solutions more often because it shows her up in the series more but it still looks like she's the last place anypony ever thinks to go, even though every time they seek her out, she has the solution that's needed.

Edited by ParadiscaCorbasi Hide/Show Replies
Dec 10th 2011 at 10:38:13 AM •••

If we can find a trope for that kind of character, we can put it on her character page, but it's not a call back unless somepony in the show actually mentions Zecora as a last resort

Dec 10th 2011 at 11:07:57 AM •••

Keep in mind that Zecora lives within the Everfree Forest, which is out of the way and can be dangerous. Twilight even got turned to stone while in there. Seeing two licensed professionals in the same town for what Twilight thinks is a medical problem makes sense before making the journey through the Everfree Forest to see Zecora.

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