Discussion Recap / GameOfThronesS6E10TheWindsOfWinter

I think persecution, religious and not, is generally considered villainous. However, they are fighting against corruption and abusive rulers too. So it seems more like Black-and-Gray Morality in contrast with Cersei (after all they don't do anything comparable to mass murder).

Narratively they are intended to be villains. The last action is welching on a deal that the Sparrow made to margaery to spare Loras, and he instead carved the symbol on his head...that's kind of villainous.

On the other hand, Lancel Lannister does die doing something noble in trying to snuff out the Wildfire and Unella's fate is Disproportionate Retribution.

The show is antireligious in general compared to the books (which is a little more fair).

Julian's got it on the nose. Their overall effect on the setting is very gray and murky, but in terms of the narrative, they're certainly villains. Granted, they're in an Evil vs. Evil situation at this point, but they're antagonistic to those we're supposed to be on the side of.

I'd say they're more anti-fanatics. We see some religious characters treated positively.

Yeah. The whole "the show is anti-religion!" really doesn't hold up when non-fanatics are fine, and it's a Crapsack World where most people are shitty.

For the Starks, religion is shown in an entirely positive light. Because they're good people. Brother Ray shows religion in a good light. Because he's a good man first, and a Septon second. Thoros of Myr is a Red Priest shown in a positive light, even if he's somewhere between defrocked and a Dirty Old Monk.

Religion gets shown in a bad light from time to time... but almost everything does as well. Family (Hello, Lannisters), love, ambition... almost everything is portrayed as "bad" at some point, even ostensibly good things.

It's a fact that characters who are genuinely religious in the books like Brienne are made into Secular Hero, that Davos who was a religious man of the Faith is made into an atheist, and that Sansa loses her faith when she is stll a believer in the books. And those are "good guys". While Melisandre has all her good qualities removed with the Sparrows made into a kind of 21st Century bad guys.

I don't have a problem with the show being anti-religious since it has other problems, but there's no point denying that is antireligious.

I just don't see it. It's just kind of anti-everything. Having not read the books, the show itself doesn't come across as anti-religious, it just treats religion with the same respect it treats everything else.

That is a fair argument. Compared to how the show treated the Martells, it most definitely isn't anti-religious.

Yeah, it might be anti-religious compared with the books, but I haven't read them so it's not obvious for me.

This is wonderful. It's refreshing to see a discussion on the subject that doesn't become a religious debate or religion-slandering session. Thank you for explaining and I'll leave those point as is.

I had suspected the show's authors of being anti-religious due to the Adaptational Villainy they saddled the Faith of the Seven with, as well as Sansa losing her faith and the shunning of Melisandre in this episode (note Septon Ray was killed off). I also forgot that Davos and Brienne were devoted to the Seven in the books and that they removed Melisandre's good qualities.

For this page, I concede that the Faith are portrayed as villains and the show is rather anti-religious through some Adaptation Distillation, Writer on Board and Author Tract. I will leave the trope as is.

I'd say they are anti-religious fundamentalist, but overall they haven't really gone into religion except to show that it's a constant backdrop (as is accurate with a medieval society).