Discussion Pantheon / MainHouse

First of all, who? Second of all, I think those positions have already been taken.

TPPR 10, I think he means The Outsider from Dishonored

Someone forgot to move Asura out of that section. If you can do so, that would be kind.

Done. Now, what about the other genres?

Bruce Willis for the Spirit of Action? Or rather, John McClane?

Well if Bruce is there, we can mention how Ashley Williams is in the House of Weapons.

As an ally?

I also had a thought of the Starship Enterprise being the spirit of science fiction.

Any thoughts? DO we need consensus to add these?

Yeah, what was the reason for removing Asura? I don't see it here in discussion or anywhere else.

He was listed as a High Spirit of Genre, which didn't fit so apparently someone removed him. Put him back as just a "normal" main-houser.

1. Why should there be one? 2. Who do you have in mind? 3. Does anyone care?

do you have to be a jerk

I'm just asking a very valid question.

The only one who comes to mind is Hermies but I'm not sure of how Kratos would react to that.

No.

First, we're trying not to have Gods already existing in classical Mythologies to this Pantheon, for fun's sake. And... really? As much as Hermes is in God Of War, his presence there isn't exactly as prominent as Zeus, Ares or even Hades. Doesn't warrant his induction to the Trope Pantheons.

And saying "This house needs God/Goddess of Messengers" and just that... isn't exactly a tactful stuff that will win you sympathy. It sounds like "I declare that this house needs to have this kind of God, search for one for me!". Not a good ethic. What you should have done in a more polite way is, "I think this house needs a God of (insert a trope here). If anyone's not nominating, I nominate (insert a character here). What do you think?" And if you wanna do even better, then add up a basic portfolio.

Sounds a lot nicer, right?

I didn't mean to come off sounding like an ass, I just had a poor choice of words. There are other adaptations of Hermes in other media.

Then next time PLEASE mind your wordings before you even SAY anything.

And... which one is the most notorious portrayal of Hermes that is deserving to be put in the Pantheon?

You know there is already a god for messengers. the courier from New Vegas, why not just premote him/her to the main house?

Question: Why does the Main House need a messenger in its ranks?

The way I see it, the messenger can stay in the main house and if the main house needs to get something to one of the other houses they can use him/her to do so.

Someone removed her.

But, is someone going to put her back? The Holy Trinity doesn't really work with just two members.

As far as some people think it is for the better. Perhaps someone new could take her place.

She's back.

Why the frick is she here, she don't deserve it considering how bad she is. she shouldn't be in the pantheon. emeraldsnowcone was right to remove her.

...Who do you think should be the Deity for tropes?

Bat Tal, I really hope you aren't a friend of Golden Spot 5...

We had a discussion in that yes, she is a jerk (at first). She doesn't understand human reactions because she doesn't WANT to be human and this is just her way of getting attention which is ironic because she is the one to be paid attention to with her Reality Warper powers going out of control if she's bored. She slowly develops and becomes a better person and shows that she truly loves being with the SOS club.

Just stop doing this whole thing. At the rate this is going, the Main House might have to be locked for a while.

Uh huh, nice going with that bad grammar and Fan Myopia, BatTal. You're not helping your case and definitely aren't making your efforts going anywhere. Trope Pantheons are really for fun, but it is no excuse for you to do whatever you like regardless of the damages it could cause to others' funs.

Who are these 'some people' you spoke of? You and Snowcone? Or don't tell me it includes Golden Spot? Regardless, that 'some people' isn't the majority nor the representative of everyone that goes around with the Trope Pantheons. Try to understand that.

I have filed an Ask The Tropers report.

Now, while I do not have an opinion on the issue myself, deleting things unilaterally here is a no-no (the Pantheons are a group project), and "I don't like her/think she's overrated" is not a good reason for doing anything.

As somebody who freaking hates Haruhi the anime and dislikes Haruhi the character...yeah, she's a fitting goddess of tropes. She alters reality according to tropes she likes, she may as well be an honorary member of the site.

And play nice with others in a big Just for Fun collaboration. This is something of a popularity contest, like an unofficial "TV Tropes' favorites" endorsement. No doubt the naysayers will be arriving with the "why does the Pantheon exist, it's off-mission" comments. Don't make the Pantheon a source of drama and create legitimate reasons for it to be cut.

Haruhi is an ace at everything with the exception of normal human interaction if I remember correctly, that's why she's the Goddess of Tropes. She's Genre Savvy at everything for a reason.

Haruhi is an ace at everything with the exception of normal human interaction if I remember correctly, that's why she's the Goddess of Tropes. She's Genre Savvy at everything for a reason.

I don't know Golden Spot 5, but I read what they said. And do you really think someone who is so anti-social deserves a spot on the high council?

Have you read the Light Novels or watch the show? If not, You only look at the surface of things.

I've seen clips from the show and read about her on TV Tropes. That is how I know. I don't read light novels.

Being a nice person isn't the criteria here. It's a character being the suitable embodiment of the trope. And unfortunately, Haruhi is a good embodiment of the concept of tropes themselves. If you can find better, share and provide reasons why you think they'd fit. The Pantheon isn't perfectly set in stone, Haruhi can step down for a new character, be overthrown by enemies, whatever. It's a collaborate effort though, you can't just say "Haruhi sucks" and delete her.

what the heck is going on here? Someone else was doing this? Ugh at least I stopped and am trying to add things to the pantheon.

Just lock the page...

well I didn't have anything to do with what ever this was.

You don't need to be in part of this conversation, GS. I agree with hotman that until we can get some kind of negotiation regarding Haruhi Suzumiya, no one is entering the Main House. I this kind of stuff happens again...well, I won't be happy, will I?

Well isn't there a way to prevent only one person from doing something like this?

Right now Fighteer has suspended the two accounts. We'll wait until there's another anti-Haruhi crusader, and if that happens again, then I'll agree with temporary lock.

understood.

Just because you cannot understand why Haruhi is so popular, doesn't mean she has to be deleted. She has gotten enough of deletion stuff from another user, she doesn't need another one. I lack answers and I am not going to add her back before this is sorted out, but you cannot simply deleted gods without even discussing about it.

This is just getting out of hand, TPPR. Ban both snow cone and Bat Tal before things get messy.

I'm sorry, but TPPR and me... nor you... cannot ban people. All I could say is that... we can bring this up to Ask The Tropers?

Snowcone and BatTal, what you're doing is a finest example of Fan Myopia. "I don't know this series and why is this character having such high place in the Pantheon! I know! I will pull this character off without permission!"

No. That behavior is UNACCEPTABLE. Especially with attitude like "I can't watch this myself, so I must be right!". If you have watched the shows yourself to gather YOUR OWN OPINION, then you can bring this case forward. But if you're still in this phase, this is not gonna get listened.

KNOCK IT OFF.

"but I couldn't get through the first episode; I only made it halfway."

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

seriously though, it's 1st episode is a Non-Indicative First Episode. should have tried the second too before you judged.

That's not the way. What about PM?

Goldenspot, we shouldn't do stuff for you. If you want to get respect you have to show it. From what I've seen, you give stupid half-assed excuses why you want Haruhi gone from the pantheon (without even giving her a chance to show that Haruhi is a human and has a kinder side), and blatantly delete her pic just to 'get someones attention' as you put it. I for one, am getting annoyed.

This is your final warning Goldenspot. Clean up your act.

You can edit posts, deleting them isn't possible. And if this has nothing to do with Haruhi why did you delete her image? And once again you only care for the English dub, not for Aya Hirano's stellar work for Suzumiya herself.

Once people see that you are good, and that you gain respect by doing good things and helping out the Pantheon, this will all be buried under the hatch. If you keep whining and complaining, who knows?

I don't know many Japanese voice actors. the only one I know is that Morimoto guy. isn't he on the pantheon?

That's not a voice actor, Masaharu Morimoto is a chef. This just proves my point that you really don't give a shit, do you?

Not that one I got mixed up I meant Norio Wakamoto you can see how I got the mix up. I just don't like Haruhi. Got it!

For your own sake, you should stop stating your dislike to Haruhi like a Broken Record.

That was the last time I planed on it. That trope fits me.

As you were saying about Haruhi not being in the main House? I don't think the rest will agree on you this.

have her restored for the holy trinity will be maintained

If he doesn't reply, why don't we ban him?

.... What is it with you? You could've at least posted a discussion here first instead of suddenly removing every traces of Haruhi in the Pantheon. What is this, 'The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya'?

I guess he takes things to the literal extreme.

Fixed it all. Pleased correct some triva on some entries if I got it wrong.

What about Kyon?

You do realize she has flaws, yes?

then for the Main House's Holy Trinity, it will need a new title if the title of God/Goddess of Tropes get removed.

And if you're saying "Someone else who isn't a borderline mary sue shouldn't be here", it's implying that someone who is a borderline Mary Sue/Marty Stu may as well be in the Main House, which those kinds of characters get put to the Disgraces because they're perfect to the point that they bend the story's canon to their own will and just make for one-dimensional and boring characters due to the lack of flaws that could make the audience relate to that kind of character. The Disgraces is built on hatred by the audience as well as any trope pertaining to the Scrappy Index, Bad Writing Index, and the Mary Sue Types subsection of the Mary Sue Tropes. The level of hatred, infamy and notoriety these characters have has to be so great that the character is irredeemable in people's eyes. It's reserved for the worst abominations of fiction. They're mere existence enrages people. To add a new person in the disgraces would have to have the general approval (or indifference) of the other tropers, as well as all the categorization hassles.

Anyways, why was Kyon removed?

For a new candidate in the main house, since Rose Potter was re-added to the Pantheon/Disgraces (she used to be there until TGWL was removed due to it violating the 5P rules. Ronan Beelzub, who came from another banned fanfic Naruto Veangance Revelaitons (the same fanfic Edfred came from)), I'll nominate Edfred as God of Mary Sue Hunters (and possibly for him as part of the Court of the Gods).

• Edfred God of Mary Sue Hunters
• Greater God or Overdeity
• Symbol: A Sue Soul Container
• Alignment: Lawful Good
• Portfolio: Badass Gay, Camp Gay, Manly Gay, Mary-Sue Hunter, No Indoor Voice, Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness, Sophisticated as Hell
• Domains: Mary Sue Hunters, Homosexuality, Canon Restoration and Reparation
• Allies: Most of the Pantheon, but especially Ichigo Momomiya.
• Followers: The PPCs.
• Enemies: Ebony, Rose Potter, Jenna Silverblade, Ronan... heck, we could be here all day listing Disgraces.
• Was deified in order to have someone to keep tabs on Ronan Beelzub and other Sues. Keeps a new Sue Soul container around with Ronan's name on it, with more in place for any of Ronan's friends and any other Sues.
  • Because of aforementioned, he has been ascended further to the Main House and the Court of the Gods to keep an eye out for Sues. He packs a Mary Sue Litmus Device, which detects whether or not the person is a Sue ^note * -0-16 points: Most likely Not-Sue. Characters at this level could probably take a little spicing up without hurting them any.^note 17-21 points: Fanfiction characters can go either way at this point depending on the writer. For an MMO/RPG or original fiction character, however, you're most likely perfectly fine.^note 22-29 points: Original fiction and MMO/RPG characters can go either way at this point depending on the writer. Fanfiction characters may need some adjustment, however.^note 30-35 points: Fanfiction authors beware - it's more likely than not that you have a Mary Sue on your hands. Role-players and original fiction writers, you should also consider tweaking your character.^note 36-49 points: Fanfiction authors, you may just want to start over. Role-players and original fiction authors, at this point your characters are likely to provoke eye-rolling and exclaimations of "yeah, right!" from your readers. Immediate workover is probably in order.^note 50+ points: It's probably a lost cause either way, or you didn't read instructions properly (some people don't do this, which causes freakishly high scores). If it's the latter case, read the instructions and take the test again.^note Fanfic characters who have -0-21 points and MMO/RPG and original fiction characters who have -0-29 points won't be subject to regulations from Edfred and Ichigo Momomiya. Fanfic characters who have 22-29 points and MMO/RPG and original fiction characters who have 30-35 points will be subject to warnings from Edfred and Ichigo Momomiya. Fanfic characters who have 30-35 points and MMO/RPG and original fiction characters who have 36-49 points will be subject to possible removal from the Pantheon Proper from Edfred and Ichigo Momomiya, with the possibility of getting demoted to the The Fallen at best or even the Disgraces at worst. Fanfic characters who have 36+ points and MMO/RPG and original fiction characters who have 50+ points will just be cast to the Disgraces. No exceptions.
• Often startles other deities with his loud voice, due to suffering from Capslochia Permanisis.
• Often visits the house of Music whenever Zit Remedy is playing. Archie Simpson has noticed that the two share some similarities.

As long as Haruhi disappears from the pantheon.

Golden Spot... If you could've given a more thorough reasoning, backed up with the support of many, the removal of Haruhi would be plausible. At this point, this is sounding more like you're the only one who thinks that, and then proceeds to shove it to everyone else's throats without permission. No matter how justified you may think... that's not cool and I do not think I am capable of taking this offer very seriously.

However, as moonmartins said below... somehow there is a point in this: Haruhi's popularity has started to wane, so perhaps her position in the Pantheon may be shaken. Myself, I'm no Haruhi watcher, but these Haruhi fanboys also need to come around and discuss whether she stays or not. With reasonings of course.

I just think she should step down and give the spot to someone new, because I think she's hogging the spot light. Maybe she can become a goddess of something else? I mean what makes her the goddess of everything? Wheres the proof?

The only thing she isn't good at is normality, Which belongs to Kyon. What do think she could be the Goddess of?

anyone agree on the addition of Edfred?

Nothing is what I think or better yet goddess of Overly Expressive Ego

isn't there a holder of a similar title (Small Name, Big Ego for Black Star)?

I can't believe I'm saying this but she has a bigger ego then he does. And I know Black Star, Soul Eater is one of my favorite anime.

Tehrannotaur, I agree on the addition of Edfred. Not to mention, Strong Bad is another God of this. Is it really Ok to have three deities representing the same trope?

...Why didin't we think of this before? Damn, I keep forgetting about that incident.

Considering how big change it will be, we're gonna need more input than other than just troy's agreement. At this point, I'm very unconvinced that this was nothing more than a rage of one man getting overly pissed off that someone he doesn't like has such a high position in the Pantheon. I hope you can present your case in a better way without sounding salty, Golden Spot. For the moment, I'll be re-adding Haruhi to the Main House, but this discussion will still be ongoing and if we reach the verdict of the removal of Haruhi, then we will remove her. Until then, please don't remove anymore.

The guy who came up with 'tropes'... well that'll mean Fast Eddie, but I'm sure he doesn't appreciate having his name tossed around like that. It can also attract haters.

I seriously urge everyone who participate in this Pantheon stuff to discuss about Golden Spot's proposition fairly. Thanks.

You know, Why don't we just add Jesus Christ as God of Tropes.... That was kind of outlandish.

Well if we put Fast Eddie into the Main House to replace Haruhi's position, it could cause a similar incident as what happened when people kept repeatedly putting him to the Disgraces, which caused that page to be locked for 8 months.

@troy56: Thanks. I'll add Edfred in to both the Main House and the Court of the Gods (it would make a suitable house for him as well), and as for Black Star and Strong Bad, the former represents Massive Egotism and the latter represents Arrogance, although both end up directing to Small Name, Big Ego. Ditto with The Millenium and Sundowner. Both direct to War for Fun and Profit but the former refers to War Mongering and the latter refers to Profitable War. There's also the "other" gods representing the same trope (Cloud Strife and Jack Rackan for Swordmanship, Chuck Schuldiner and Dethklok for Death Metal).

Well he doesn't belong in the disgraces, if he created the tropes in the first place he should be the god of tropes.

By the way who is Edfred

There's a difference between creating and embodiment. Haruhi embodies and represents all tropes ever. Fast Eddie was the one who just penned them. Plus we already have trope-tan to help with Fast Eddie's decision.

And how far did you even get into the Suzumiya novels? It's shown later on that she truly cares for her friends in the SOS club and is slowly understanding to be more and more sociable to people. Her outlook is so heavily jaded due to that baseball stadium incident and is a way to cope with her being normal which she DOES NOT want to be. Hence her knowledge of tropes is her embodiment of being special while Kyon is there because he balances out Haruhi's wishes to be special by being the ordinary normal high school student that helped her slowly come out of her shell.

And personaly, I am REALLY REALLY sick of having the constant deletion and adding of stuff. The villains page had a time where trolls deleted all of the content and placed Fast eddie's name on it not to mention there was that one time where someone placed some sort of porn sex scene with editors.

So please Golden Spot 5, RECONSIDER what you're doing and give a very VERY accurate defense as to why Haruhi Suzumiya should no longer be part of the holy trinity. Thank you.

I will watch the anime just to prove I'm right.

@Goldenspot5: Edfred's a character from the fanfic Naruto Veangance Revelations, who was introduced in an alternate ending that the author's former stepbrother wrote after he took over his account, which has Edfred and his boyfriend Muskoka restore the cast to normal, enabling them to kill the hated main character Ronan Beelzub, who easily fell into several Mary Sue categories. For Haruhi Suzumiya, READ THE LIGHT NOVELS to get a better understanding of her. They're easily available for purchase from Yen Press. Don't rely on the adaptation because it hasn't adapted everything from it (up to Disappearance).

For Kyon, someone please re-add him in.

Also please present your case in a way that is not biased, Golden Spot, because right now, it is still sounding like you dislike Haruhi and doesn't like how she's got such high placement in the Trope Pantheons. Camilla and Tehrannotaur has given you the directions, you should follow.

I don't read light novels, it's anime dub or nothing. And if she is said to personify every trope, that can't be possible, everyone is limited to the amount of tropes that can apply to him or her.

Don't say I warned you. Anime usually tends to Flanderize characterizations frequently, so yeah. Not to mention, If you put him up in the pantheon, it won't be pleasant.

I agree. Anime usually do not accurately portray characterizations of works all that well. The fact that it's 'anime dub or nothing' to you shows that you have a lack of interest in the series and a hatred of a character just cause of a dub. If you try this shit again, there's going to be severe consequences not only for you but for everyone who works on the pantheon.

I only watch dub for any anime, and the fact that Haruhi is voice by Wendi Lee means its going to be good. I just don't like the character and I don's see what puts her in a spot she doesn't deserve.

'Just don't like the character' ISN'T a good enough reason to remove someone, especially when it's just ONE guy. That's Fan Myopia at its finest and we do not take that well.

Well will someone give me 10 good reasons that she belongs here?

Golden Spot, I had to deal with the same shit with JIKTV over Trish Stratus. If you keep this up, you may find yourself on Ask the Tropers like he did. Please back away now.

Golden Spot, that's enough with your sense of self-entitlement, it's getting like It's All About Me. Who gave you, only you, the rights to decide such big things in the 'for everyone' stuff like the Trope Pantheons?

If you wanted the reasons and be taken seriously, you should've asked nicely, instead of first removing every traces of Haruhi, and then insisting that only your opinion matters. Listen to Megafighter, you're attracting trouble.

Not to say that you shouldn't be given reasons, but I'm sure that other Haruhi audience (I'm not them) will be happy to provide... so long as you fix your attitude.

Sorry it's just anything involve that character get's me angry. and it was never about me, I just feel she has overstayed her welcome. May I please have my reasons. and what's wrong with Ask the Tropers?

I just feel she has overstayed her welcome

... Way to shoot yourself in the leg and killing your legitimacy about 'it was never about you'. You're the only one who feels that she overstayed her welcome, and you're the only one being angry with things about her, so you decided to make big changes to fit in your view. What else there is, but It's All About Me?

See, Ask The Tropers is occasionally where we ask other tropers and mods about things in the wiki... This is not limited to misbehaving users. If a mod see that you are misbehaving, you'd be suspended and be invited to have a nice talk in the 'Edit Banned' forum. If you still haven't realized your mistake and still be obnoxious, they could ban you. And if you managed to make it look like you realize your mistake... and then goes to pull the same shit... then it's instant ban and they won't give another chance.

@Golden Spot 5: Why are you so demanding on reasons? If you want to know why she embodies tropes READ THE NOVELS. If you pull up one more thing about "I will just watch the anime dub", then I shall cast a vote on putting you in Ask the Tropers, which is where tropers (like the ones who are discussing with you right now) will have a right to ban you for your unnecessary edits and ego problems. I suggest you look into Haruhi's characters from her original source before you start deleting/putting negative comments about characters. I mean, would you want US to do the same with your favorite characters in the Pantheon?

(sigh, takes deep breath,) I'll stop, but to be far I'm not the only one who may dislike her. I'm sorry, I hate having an big ego and I can't stand people like that. That's why I don't like her. To me she would be a good villain if anything (just a thought). I will never like her but that doesn't mean you have to hate her. So with permission, I would like to add something positive to her in the pantheon.

And if possible have this whole conversation taken down.

YHWH is head of the Law House, and even though he's clearly powerful enough it's explicitly stated in his Faith entry he's kept out of the Main House because he'd just try to overthrow everyone else. Lucifer's much the same: he's definitely powerful enough for the Main House, but he's too busy keeping YHWH under control.

What I'm curious about is why Tenma's not in the Main House: he's stated to be the equal and opposite to Johan, but he's a Greater God to Johan's Overdeity, and is stuck in the Mentalism House while Johan's in the Main House. We need to either elevate Tenma or downgrade Johan: if they're explicitly the equal and opposite to each other, we can't have a discrepancy like the one we have now.

agreed.

The Main House is described as " The highest of the high. All supreme beings and Greater Gods sit at this level."

Wait, ALL Greater Gods? I can name a huge number of Greater Gods and even some Overdeities who aren't in the Main House. There's gotta be more to it than just that.

There are lots of Greater Gods in the Pantheon but we need a clear DISTINCTION as to what gives Greater Gods the ascension to gain entrance to the Main House. If not, then we're just spamming lots of gods from other houses in the Main House.

So, "What constitutes the Highest of the High?"

If there's already subs, you can go for it. But wow... This may be one of the darker days of the Pantheon.

What fixes are you proposing?

Jesus, I don't even KNOW...subs aren't out, per-say, but the trope page for the movie has a good rundown and there are summaries floating around the interwebs. As for the changes...

Well, Madoka falls to begin with. VERY high chance of redemption, though: she didn't fall as much as she was PUSHED. It's way too early to tell how this'll unfold. We don't even know if Shaft's gonna follow up on what happened in Rebellion. Okay, of course they are. Homura is promoted on the spot to Overdeity and takes Sayaka's place as Goddess of Fallen Magical Girls. Retroactive Preparation is hardly her defining point anymore. Sayaka...she'd probably Fall too, unless you have somewhere she could go. Sakura Kinamoto's probably getting her job back as Goddess of Magical Girls and takes over the Sisterhood, and then Nanoha joins the Trinity proper as a Mother-saint to take Sakura's place (it'd round out the personality trio, at least).

Overall...ouch. I mean...ouch. If there are more, I can't think of 'em right now. What's your take on all this?

DON'T!!

It's only attracting possible vandals. Didn't you read the discussion below why you shouldn't involve him?

Yeah, I understand.

It could be good. However, Portfolio needs to be more than just TWO entries, or else the entry would look rather forced. But since it's start-up, I'll give it some time.

Maybe I'll add it in for you and tweak it. I'll agree in the end.

Thanks.

I Would like to see deus ex machina as its own god too.

Have you taken into account that The Flash appeared before Sonic did?

It's true. I'm a massive Sonic fan, but Sonic really does fit best as slayer of the polygon ceiling, simply due to the fact that A) The Flash is older than him and B) The flash is actually faster. Sonic's top speed is generally about the speed of sound. Even the absolute maximum top speed Sonic has (which was only mentioned in the comics when he was very upset. He basically ran around the world in 20 seconds) is not near the Flash's top speed.

Fan Myopia?

Fun.