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This page needs a cleanup horribly. There are a load of Zero Context Examples, improper Example Indentation, and some Conversation In The Main Page. I've already purged a bit but I'm not knowledgeable enough on the series to fix some of the ZC Es.
This is an English language wiki, so why use the Japanese Blue/Green instead of the English Green/Blue?
I'm new to the fandom, so I may be wrong but I speculate that it may be because the people here want to stick to the original names and ONLY the originals to minimise confusion.
Why exactly does this page use the Japanese names of characters and the manga at all, barring untranslated elements? Even Bulbapedia stopped doing that after Viz rebooted its publication. After the rerelease of the volumes based on Gen I with unaltered art, only Emerald and XY haven't been published yet (and even then, only FireRed/LeafGreen and Black and White are missing any volumes out of the ones that have had any volumes translated; heck, both the magazine and standard editions of Black and White are being published).
Um... reasons? You should probably go to Ask The Tropers cause I don't know what to do here.
I wasn't asking anyone on in particular. I just thought this section would be the best place for my question rather than making a new one. Sorry about not making that clear.
No problem. I just don't know who made the decision to use the Japanese names so I thought taking it to ATT would be the best solution. For all I know the mods will want the English names listed first.
I was thinking that maybe PokéSpe should redirect here.
erika's house according to pokemon card and chapter 46!!!
gold lives in big fancy house too and he's white prince!!!!
Ok. I know people use different names. But I'm getting really annoyed at the whole usage of "arcs" and "sagas." Can just use the official title as "chapter", please?
How do you add a YMMV tab for a specific page? Poke Spe needs one.
deleted because it was posted in the wrong discussion page. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Characters.ptitled53fvupl
Not that I condone piracy or anything, but...where the hell are we getting all this new info on new chapters? Because, uh...I DON'T want to read them and be up to date? *shifty eyes*
Serebii.net's forum has monthly updates on HGSS, and there's my topic at Bulbagarden where I summarize it even shorter from Coronis's updates. Or you could also try to translate the little bits you see here.
...but, hey, if you find actual scanlators, don't hesitate to tell us! XD *shameless*
The quote at the top of the page. Can we use a different one? That one is largely taken out of context since it's over ten years old and this was the truest at the time of that quote, but not anymore (Zensho takes the cake, along with a few other manga arguably).
I don't think there's any other quote out there that can be used for the whole series. Hence why that quote is still up there.
Also, your Character Derailment entry... I think it's wrong. I mean, come on, game verse and PokeSpe manga verse are naturally different. There's a reason, for example, Ruby and Sapphire aren't named "Brendan and May"; they aren't them. This is also the reason why nowadays, in the HGSS arc, we get Archer and Ariana again because they were previously Keane and Chermaine, when in the games they're the same but nameless.
Honestly, Character Derailment is an exaggeration. That should only be used if they're inconsistent within the same verse.
If we can have that on the anime page, why not on Pokespe's page?
Wait, what? Which anime page?
The Pokemon anime's page. See, it has an entry. If this page can't have one, then neither should that one since that is an alternate continuity too.
This page has entries comparing and contrasting it to the anime so why can't it have that sort of comparison?
Well, that one is also quite unfair, but since I care not for the Pokemon anime, I'm not about to go defending the characters there...
Anyways, Character Derailment mostly happens within a same verse/work, if you check the trope's page. As the Pokemon verses currently stand, however, the characters are more like Cross Canon Counterparts and aren't to be taken as the same person.
Well, I'll have to get the other one moved off the page.
About the derailment again.
The anime has listed it under Adaptation Decay. Should we put them back up and list them under Decay?
That sounds much better XD
After all, the manga is an adaptation of the games, isn't it? (even when the game characters didn't have much of a personality back in the heyday... mmm... what do you think?)
Aren't the Shout-Out's Mythology Gag's since they're from the same franchise, but not the same continuity?
Um, other than the whole censorship debacle (Just my two cents: I don't like it, but I just paste in the uncensored pages into my copies), nicknames! Coronis, Chuang Yi, or Viz? Aibo for Ataro is more appropriate than it should be. Other than that, I have no opinion, so I leave the squabbling to you my dear fellow tropers.
I think the best case scenario is just to note the different names in each translation to avoid whining.
In fact, gonna do that now for Gold's mons.
Why was my review deleted?
Stop being jerks to Shiny Noctowl. He has a good point.
Nice sockpuppet, mon.
His point isn't good, and his arguments are wrong.
Why are you supporting him?
I'd like to point out that it's Shiny Noctowl venting out his anger about Viz here that's the problem. I myself prefer Chuang Yi over Viz (CY is cheaper in my country) and I'm not really bothered by how Viz is more popular.
Why was the Your Mileage May Vary about Viz's new translation removed?
Shiny Noctowl, really, I'm telling you this as a friend: I don't want the mods or the admins to retaliate against you, or worse, for your edits to cause a serious backlash against the Chuang Yi version which you adore so much. You know I've been helping you keep this page neutral and fitting everyone's perceptions of the manga; I want to help you, so please listen.
An admin or mod from this page removed the YMMV first. And several users have pointed that out to you already in their comments over the edits. Please, understand we're doing this because, perhaps, you're the only one with this point of view. The topic you made over at Bulbagarden just kind of proved it when everyone began saying they'd buy Viz's version.
Please, this edit war can't go on forever. You already got banned for two days from Bulbagarden over this, don't commit the same mistake here.
I posted this so the admins could give some reasoning for their unexplained removal of the example. Besides, the poll actually proved my point. About 25% prefer Chuang Yi's version; this is certainly a minority, but it's a significant minority.
Certainly, some like Chuang Yi better, but I don't think YMMV refers to that; I actually believe that trope is something far more extreme. Both versions are very similar, there isn't much to have a full-blown YMMV over it; if it was between an anime adaptation of Poke Spe and Chuang Yi's version then yes, our mileage will vary like crazy surely. I think that's the reason...
Also, we know you like Chuang Yi, but you don't need to edit the description paragraph of Poke Spe to reflect your opinion only. The last edit is something you caused indirectly; people are starting to notice, and they'll start hating Chuang Yi because of your extremism and you won't ever get a minute of peace again. And I actually found the new description paragraph to be quite neutral toward both versions (it only said that "for those chapters Viz doesn't have yet, go to Chuang Yi's version"), and that's the best you can hope for when Viz is doing its damnest to catch up and Chuang Yi remains being a bitch for not exporting outside of Southeast Asia.
Please, Shiny Noctowl, let's have a peaceful time here at TV Tropes. If you want to express your opinion on Viz's version, buy a volume you already have of Chuang Yi's version, and bash it to hell and back at the reviews. Everyone will know and hear; reviews are a nice way to express your opinion and make sure others get it. An edit war such as this is not so fine and will get you a lot of enemies... Please, consider my words.
OK, Shiny Noctowl, I'm beginning to add specially glaring differences between the versions to the page. It's really sad we lost the Sprout Tower's punny names and stuff, so I added it in favor of Chuang Yi's version as Woolseyism. Please ask before adding or editing something else. I'll help you to be fair to everyone and everything, and to keep it neutral for the benefit of our readers and fellow tropers, OK? We should avoid more conflicts, I'm sure we can make a great page if we all work together!
<Mod Voice ON> Shiny Noctowl, the admins have already removed your entry on YMMV. If you continue to edit war over it, you'll be banned.
But why did they remove it? The admins gave no explanation for their reversions. And you only gave an argumentum ad baculum.
Well, I gave you one reason: YMMV is not what you think it is. Back in the TV Tropes forum, they said so too to you before I did. To top it, they suggested it's a case of Broken Base, and I have been thinking it may actually be a case of Fan Dumb.
You're taking this too far, SN; I'm trying to help you by giving Chuang Yi the Woolseyism point, which is possibly the only good point it has because back at Bulbagarden there were many more posted complaints against Chuang Yi for flipping the manga than for Viz changing Gold's Pokemon name suffixes to "-bo" or censoring Blue's Pokeball boob trick. Also, consider that both versions are essentially the same thing except for these tiny bits most people can simply overlook because they don't mean anything.
...now, then, I throw the question back to you: why is this a case of YMMV at all? Do you see anyone else but you complaining about Viz, or Chuang Yi, or pointing out real wild differences between the versions?
Edit warring against mod and admin is banworthy. Bye, snoctowl.
So admins are never wrong? How isn't my example a case of Your Mileage May Vary?
Make actual arguments instead of appeals to force (argumentum ad baculum).
Uh-oh. You've edited a mod comment. Now you're done for...
To answer your question, it's because you haven't really presented evidence of an even split between the detractors and the supporters. That, and it's pretty much a universal trope for every work.
Wouldn't adding Broken Base make sense, at least? The poll I posted earlier shows that, while people who prefer Chuang Yi's version are in the minority, there's still a significant number of them.
You need more proof than that, really.
So the fact that most prefer Viz's version but a significant minority prefer Chuang Yi's isn't enough proof of Broken Base?
It may well make sense. But you can't act surprised at moderators stepping in when you resort to argumentum ad vandalism.
I only reverted because the moderators reverted me without giving any reason beyond "I'm right and anyone who disagrees gets banned."
The sample size presented in the poll is... rather puny.
It shows that not everyone worships Viz and believes that their version is the Infallible Holy Truth.
I only reverted because the moderators reverted me
That should be a signal that you need to rethink your actions, not justification for vandalism.
Edit wars are to be taken to discussion, instead of being allowed to continue indefinitely and clog up the page history.
I asked for explanation on the discussion page; the mods only made anything remotely resembling an explanation after already blocking me.
YMMV = Love It or Hate It. This is when there is a signifiant split between people who think it's the Holy Grail and another half that think it's the shitiest shit that has been ever shat out. Saying "there is a very small minority that prefer X" is not even on the same level as People Sit On Chairs.
It's not a very small minority, it's a significant minority. This means that, while most people prefer Viz's version, many others prefer Chuang Yi's.
For the purpose of YMMV, yes, it's small, or at least not big enough to be considered an even split, which is what YMMV is for.
If 5 people is a significant minority, then your sample size is too small.
Wouldn't it still be Broken Base, then, because it's significant enough? One in four isn't exactly tiny.
The sample size was only so small because apparently asking which version people prefer is flamebait. Although, the fact that asking the question is considered flamebait would seem to indicate that there are large numbers of people on each side.
Broken Base: Again, that trope is about an even or very signifiant split in the fanbase. There are a number of people that hates The Empire Strike Back with a passion and think it's the worst of the series. But it's not worth noting - the number is too small.
And wat at the Flame Bait thing. There's nothing in either the title or the opening post that suggest it's a touchy subject, or something that has been debated AD Nauseum. No comments like "Not this shit again", nothing. Infact, the only vitriol in that thread is directed at you, which indicates you're the only one to feel so strongly on this issue.
Look at the reason why the thread was locked; it was for flamebaiting. And how is 25% too small to be worth noting?
The fact is, regardless of what Viz's Fan Dumb claims, Viz's version is full of Bowdlerizations, mistranslations, and some things changed for no apparent reason. It's a lot like 4Kids's dub of the anime.
TV Tropes is not where you go to vent.
The last post says "Since this poll was put up as a place for a now-banned member to verbally abuse anyone who disagreed with him, I'm going to close this. If anyone wants to open a REAL poll, go ahead."
And who started the poll? You, yeah.
Also, nobody cares that Viz's translation is worse than Cancer. "But it REALLY DO SUCKS" never ever worked with the mods. If bad entry is bad, it goes. Simple as that.
I already pointed out why enough people prefer Chuang Yi's version to make it significant.
I wasn't "verbally abusing" anyone. I said that I prefer Chuang Yi's version and then listed all of the problems with Viz's version, including Bowdlerizations, mistranslations, etc.
As pointed out in this trope, 25% may seem like a lot, but 5 people is still 5 people. No matter how you slice it, that's not a large amount of people.
Neither is 15 people, by the same reasoning. I'd have preferred to get a larger sample size, but apparently it's flamebait to ask whether people prefer an unflipped but censored translation or an uncensored but flipped one.
Ignore this post.
Anyone who likes Viz's version more than Chuang Yi's is an idiot. Since when did censorship become good?
... Yeah, I can't take you seriously now.
How is censorship good?
I pointed out that Viz's version is censored, while Chuang Yi's is not. That makes Chuang Yi's version indisputably better, so anyone who prefers Viz's is an idiot.
How is a censored version better than an uncensored version?
Why are you so invested in this nonsense?
Why are you? I'm right, and you're wrong. Simple as that.
You're not right, snoctowl. Censorship is not always a bad thing.
Out of a random sample of four movies, one of them was in fact improved by censorship. This means that twenty-five percent of movies are improved by censorship. This is a significant minority and cannot be disputed despite the tiny sample size.
If you dispute this figure, I will continue to state that twenty-five percent of films are improved by censorship, and that anyone who thinks censorship is a bad thing is an idiot because twenty-five precent of films are improved by censorship.
This makes Executive Meddling a case of a Broken Base, between idiots that prefer things uncensored, and those that prefer the twenty-five percent of films that are improved by censorship.
Do I have the thrust of your argument yet?
My update on the CY Comics release: Now awaiting Volume 34 with great impatience.
Bad Export For You - Viz\'s new releases
I don\'t think that Viz\'s new releases are all that bad, really. I don\'t have all of them yet, but the only real change I\'ve heard about is changing the Victoria's Secret Compartment scene and a couple errors. No real important changes, plus a pretty nice translation compared to what some groups/companies put out. Chuang Yi\'s the bad one, with some pretty awkward translations and flipped artwork. Am I missing something here?
It\'s just Shiny Noctowl from Bulbagarden again, being seriously childish... again. Seriously, I think I\'ve memorized his IP.
He first went after all Platina references, knowing full well canon dictates she\'ll be named Platinum (had to change her references to \
Haha, figures it\'s a troll.
Ugh, and they\'re back. Can we possibly block their IP? Have they ever contributed anything meaningful to this page?
No, he just enters an endless edit war against you because he\'s kinda a douche or something...
I dunno if we could block him based on IP. Do we even have mods or admins here? XD
Viz's version is unflipped, but that's its only advantage over Chuang Yi's version. Viz edited the Green vs. Sabrina fight, Viz misspelled Slowpoke as "Slowpoké", Viz ruined the easily-translatable pun with the monks' names, etc. Chuang Yi's version doesn't have any of those problems.
Yes, but Chuang Yi is poorly edited (they forget to flip the Unown so it makes sense), has a serviceable but weak translation (they even forget that Tate is a boy!), and the three things you listed \'\'do not\'\' equal "Blind Idiot" Translation, Disneyification, or anything else you changed. If you\'re so upset about one funny scene and a couple of puns, \'\'point those out.\'\' Oh wait, nevermind. They\'ve \'\'been\'\' pointed out.
Neither translation is \'\'bad\'\'. The worst editing is dropping the pokeball scene and flipping the artwork. The story hasn\'t been changed in either translation. None of those tropes fit either translation. \'\'None.\'\'
If you want an example of a bad translation, check out the fan translations of the ending of the Emerald saga that was on Manga Fox for a while. \'\'That\'\' was \'\'baaaaad.\'\'
I can do this allll day, buddy.
Other than their random insistence on flipping it like Chuang Yi, the Emerald scanlation wasn't that bad.
http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showthread.php?t=74457&page=2 You can\'t hide from the truth. No one agrees with you.
And you\'re proving to be very mature, too. \
I already pointed out why Chuang Yi's version is much better; it isn't censored.
Tell me then, why did you change my comment? It\'s because you know you\'re on the losing side of the argument, isn\'t it?
I responded completely to every one of your comments before editing them.
No you didn\'t. And there\'s no need to edit other people\'s comments except for the fact that you\'re afraid that someone \'\'might not agree with you.\'\'
I pointed out that Chuang Yi's release is better because it isn't censored.
Which one are you, Umeko or Bored Pikachu? Or maybe Psychic Rider?
I\'m not on Bulbagarden. I really don\'t like most Pokemon forums.
Then how did you find that thread so quickly?
I wasn't the only one who voted that Chuang Yi's version is better, as you could see if you actually looked at the poll.
It\'s not hard, I know who you are from another troper, so I just looked to see \'\'why\'\' you don\'t like Viz. Guess there\'s no good reason after all. Grow up, plz.
I pointed out, in detail, exactly why Viz's version is a Macekred pile of garbage that isn't even worth the paper it's printed on!
No, you didn\'t. You gave one short scene, a couple missed puns, and one mistake. I\'ll take that over a bland translation any day.
Spamming the checkout feature isn't a good way to reach consensus. It'll probably get you blocked.
Editing people\'s comments doesn\'t exactly win you any points, either.
<Mod hat ON>
YMMV can be assumed for most any translation. But!
Anyways, everyone, I'm sorry for all the troubles my fellow Bulbagardener has caused. I thought the YMMV would keep him quiet, like the editing of Platinum/Platina to Lady Berlitz some time ago...
Either way, do we edit out the YMMV or do we restore it to a previous state? It currently says very nasty things about Viz's version, which may actually be unfair bashing.
I promised I wouldn't edit out myself, because I don't want to ignite another edit war (I really shouldn't have dragged it out so long last time), but I am of the opinion that it should be edited to at least be less... bashy. Or you can wait for more opinions on the matter.
And I'm sorry for igniting such an explosive flame war, so don't worry, Kayi. :)
To Shiny Noctowl: Please, honey, stop. A moderator removed the YMMV, not us. You have to respect that, at the very least.
Please note that Manga Fox and many other scantlation websites have taken the Pokemon Special down due to Copyright Issues. The links to mangafox don't link to squat now.
I've got a new hosting of it here.
H-Hey! Why is vol.33 not complete? XD (seriously, until September?!)
But thanks. Let's see if I can fix the removed Manga Fox references to point toward your albums then. Just keep your head low and be prepared. Is that OK with you?
Sure. Go nuts :D!
It's down right now. I'm working with my host and the Gallery dev team to get it back up.
Back up :P
Well, it took me half a year, but I finally got to hosting a new server and my own website. The new URL is http://jb2448.info/, and I plan to keep it (no more URL changes, I promise!). Any links to giantbev.info should redirect to my new website soon enough, and I should also have a new Gallery installation to go with it. For now, individual images can still be linked to, so all that has to happen is alteration of the existing links. Sorry for the trouble!
Shiny Noctowl from Bulbagarden Forums has this raging superiority complex and refuses to acknowledge the blindingly obvious fact that the third Sinnoh hero is named Platinum. SN, please stop fucking up this page, ok?
Sooo... Should we revert all the "Lady Berlitz" instances to "Platinum," or for the wisdom of keeping that person off the page not do so?
Is anybody interested in helping out in making the fanime of Pokemon Special? Search for pokespeani to reach their forum. They're very serious in their attempt, but they could really use some more help.
By the looks of it, they've announced that Pokémon Adventure is going to be in the September Anime, but it could be a hoax.
It's a hoax. It has to be. There's no way the Pokemon franchise could handle TWO anime series at the same time. It'd be rivaling itself! That would be just dumb! ...so, it's a hoax.
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